Post #230,247
10/20/05 4:32:19 PM
10/21/05 4:46:12 AM
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I feel businesslike when I'm wearing one.
To each their own, I suppose.
Edit: I was tired.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Edited by pwhysall
Oct. 21, 2005, 04:46:12 AM EDT
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Post #230,256
10/20/05 4:46:48 PM
10/20/05 5:44:08 PM
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Ditto
I did a presentation on "dress" with both ends... business casual and business formal (coat and tie or suit). In each case, the "suit" was deemed more believeable, reliable, accurate, trustworthy, and convincing. Even when the casual was the expert.
And as Andrew stated, the tie allows him to bill and extra $20/hr. With the tie, you're professional. Without you're just "good".
I only were ties when I am going to be making a senior management presentation.
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Edited by jbrabeck
Oct. 20, 2005, 05:44:08 PM EDT
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Post #230,265
10/20/05 4:56:14 PM
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So they become ties in the full moon?
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
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Post #230,321
10/21/05 2:20:19 AM
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Yeah, well, but isn't that a *stupid* feeling?
I mean, WTF is there about wearing a strangulation device that *logically* implies you're better at whatever business it is you're in?
(And it's "to each their own", BTW. If you think about it, you'll notice that this, as opposed to your version, actually makes sense. HTH.)
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #230,326
10/21/05 4:14:18 AM
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If you're get'n strangled . . .
. . you don't know how to tie one. A proper Windsor knot in a tie of decent quality bulks up sufficiently it can be loose enough without looking loose.
Sure, you can go without the symbols and prove yourself on merit, it's just a whole lot easier if merit is presumed until you screw the pooch - monumentally (and someties even after).
Narrow ties make you look like an idiot even when narrow ties are the fashion (they're making you look like an idiot so they can sell you an expensive new fashion next year). Real men do not buy narrow ties - ever.
The tip of a tie should touch the belt line, no shorter and no longer. Never wear the same tie two days in a row and discard any tie that is even slightly soiled (new ones cost about the same as the cleaners want to ruin an old one).
A "power tie" makes you look like a crook. If you're dealing with MBAs that's fine, but anyone else (particularly the SEC) will probably notice.
In consulting, ties are second only to the Prime Directive - "Never let them see you sweat".
Are ties and absurdity? Of course they are, as is just about everything else in human social conventions. Ridicule and obey - or suffer the consequences.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #230,327
10/21/05 4:52:20 AM
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Not at all.
Your argument can lead to people turning up to work in bananaphone outfits, because that's what they feel comfortable in.
Dressing appropriately for work has no direct effect on the work I do - I'm exactly as stupid in a suit as out of one - but it sends a signal to my cow-orkers, the customer, and the people in other organisations who are working with me that I'm taking the job seriously, and that I'm taking them seriously.
Of course, all this can be ruined within seconds of opening my mouth, but first impressions count, and they last.
It never hurts to grease the wheels.
And as Andrew points out, a properly tied tie (I favour a half-Windsor knot, myself) need not be in any way uncomfortable.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #230,331
10/21/05 8:06:15 AM
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Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring Ring. :-D
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Post #230,334
10/21/05 9:45:45 AM
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Clean Coveralls with a nametag give the same impression of
competance and are much cooler in summer and more comfortable, Have you ever seen spock in a tie?
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
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Post #230,335
10/21/05 9:57:23 AM
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On the shop floor, sure.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Post #230,353
10/21/05 11:26:35 AM
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And you can collect the brooms people hand you.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #230,370
10/21/05 1:22:11 PM
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The "opening your mouth" comment is more true there
Accents don't have nearly the social clout in the USA that they do in England. (I was discussing this the other day with a co-worker who grew up in England.)
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #230,407
10/21/05 4:15:38 PM
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Thing of the past, by and large.
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #230,330
10/21/05 8:05:07 AM
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Appearances matter. 24 kB .imgs.
Ties are part of the traditional business uniform. Since so much of business is sales of some sort (even if only selling yourself internally), it is logical to conform to societal and business norms in such an environment.
One can go overboard trying to follow Molloy's [link|http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0446385522/002-9111084-6142456|Dress for Success] (e.g. fabrics change), but the general principles still stand.
Who looks like a better fit in a traditional business environment?
[image|http://www.photospin.com/content/photos/full/0550039.jpg|0|Man in suit|201|123] [image|http://paulkatcher.com/images/car_salesman.jpg|0|Man with no tie|201|160]
;-)
With all that said, wearing a tie these days isn't as standard as it was in the days when IBM people wore white shirts and black ties. And few things look stranger than a junior underling in a company wearing a tie or a suit every day when no one else short of senior management wears a tie. But I'd say if more than about 20% (maybe even 10%) of your peers wear ties, then you should too. (The devil's in how you define "peers".)
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #230,365
10/21/05 12:01:51 PM
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For me it's a matter of habit.
I've worked long stints where I've had to wear a tie. After a while it just seems natural. I've also worked jobs where jeans and t-shirts were the norm and when I'm there, ties are the devil. And I've also worked where I had to wear a uniform, which in some ways has it's advantages as the company is paying to clothe you. Mostly I've found these things run in cycles, as a labor shortage usually results in relaxation of the dress code.
It might be nice if clothes didn't have connotations of stature or invoke prejudice, but the fact is that they do. Heck, just the shoes you wear are used by others to judge your place in the pecking order. And if you came to work sporting piercings, tatoos and hip-hop clothes (pants that come up to about your knees), you will definitely raise eyebrows among the conservative yuppies.
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