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New Re: Days 2 & 3
Mark, I'm not about to get into an argument here. I've laid out my impressions, based on the last Warpstock I attended which was in 2000. Sorry that they bother you so much.

You guys give a lot of yourselves and I know that. I'm just not used to seeing Warpstock in this light.

What vendors did you expect to see? Other than Mensys which was there in the presence of David van Enckevort, though they didn't take a table since David spent most of his time giving sessions on eCS. We were very pleased to have Finnegan Software there showing off several machines with eCS 1.2 loaded. Also os2ecs.org and Netlabs were there, as well as a wireless service provider - Hautspot.

I don't count os2ecs.org (essentially a user group) as a vendor. I don't remember seeing an actual Netlabs shingle in the exhibit room, although I did see a couple of guys wearing Netlabs shirts. Maybe I missed it. That leaves Finnegan, Hautspot, and Mensys. Even if you count the others, I believe that's 5.

There haven't been many vendors at Warpstock since Toronto. The reason being there are almost no commercial OS/2 apps left to sell.

Well, as I mention, the last time I was at Warpstock was 2000. I've been out of touch with the OS/2 community for over 4 years. I continue to use the platform because I choose to, but I've had almost no contact with anyone in the community until this year.

As to the health of Warpstock, attendance was up and this year's event was financially successful.

That was my understanding as well, after chatting with Stan. I'd be curious to know what the figure was for last year's attendance. I estimated this year was around 65, but I'm guessing. You probably know those figures better than I will ever know.

So there will be a Warpstock 2006 as long as there is interest in it.

Well, it was certainly a new twist that was suggested at the end. I'd be up for it.

I only managed to get to 2 sessions - Mike Kaply's session on the history and future of Warpzilla and Robert Henschel's session on Palm USB synching.

And Stan had to almost yell and badger you to go to those 2 sessions. I know I heard him do it at least once.

Wasn't there anything of interest there for you other then vendors?

Yes, a couple of things. I'm impressed with the progress made on the installer and Stan's session on networking made me aware of a couple of wireless devices I had not heard of. I also thought Lewis' session on wireless was a bit informative.

I just had no idea that software vendors had dropped to such a low level. If it's down to Serenity Systems, Mensys, and Netlabs, then I guess that's where we are. It's just a bit of a culture shock to me.
New It's over
Stick a fork in it.
New Re: It's over
"broomberg
Registered User
(2005-10-11 04:48:39)
\t
It's over
Stick a fork in it."


Weenie users and the asses in Armonk have been praying for that for at least 10 years now, yet OS/2 lives. Its got at least a few more years left in it as eComStation so stick your fork elsewhere and give it a good twist. ;-)

Mark
For a choice in the future JOIN VOICE NOW
check out [link|http://www.os2voice.org/index.html|http://www.os2voice.org/index.html]

For a choice in the future JOIN VOICE NOW
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Warpstock 2005 Hershey, The Sweetest one yet - [link|http://www.warpstock.org|http://www.warpstock.org]
New OMFG! OS/2 flaming!
Hello, zIWeThey? The 90s called. They want this thread back.
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #229378 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=229378|ICLRPD]
When somebody asks you to trade your security for freedom, it isn't your freedom they're talking about.
New Re: It's over
That is an absurd statement. Warpstock, eCS, and OS/2 are far from "over." I suppose now that Linux is the flavor of the month that AIX, HP-UX, and Solaris are "over," as well? And perhaps, by extraction, that users of those OSes no longer have a need for techincal information and knowledge?

AIX: [link|http://www-304.ibm.com/jct03001c/services/learning/ites.wss?pageType=page&c=a0006123|http://www-304.ibm.c...e=page&c=a0006123]

HP-UX: [link|http://www.supercomp.de/isc2005/index.php?s=default|http://www.supercomp...dex.php?s=default]

Solaris: [link|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/solarisx86/messages/15703?threaded=1|http://groups.yahoo..../15703?threaded=1] and [link|http://www.sun.com/sunnetwork/snceuro2005/|http://www.sun.com/s...work/snceuro2005/]

Yeah, they're "over," too... ;-)
--
Lewis
------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis G Rosenthal, CNA, CLE
Rosenthal & Rosenthal, LLC
Accountants / Network Consultants
New York / Northern Virginia www.2rosenthals.com
eComStation Consultants www.ecomstation.com
Novell Users International www.novell.com/linux/truth

Warpstock 2005 - Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6-9, 2005 www.warpstock.org
------------------------------------------------------------
New I don't see anyone here saying those are over.
OS/2 is far more over than any of those, especially since they are all still being sold for new commercial installations.

In my opinion, this state of affairs has nothing to do with OS/2 itself, and everything to do with the applications. As far as the x86 platform goes, however, it's pretty much Linux, BSD, and Windows (well, and Apple in the coming months). I had the odd situation today where Linux was better supported than a proprietary OS (Solaris 10 x86) -- I've never had to deal with that before. PVCS and MQSeries are unavailable for Solaris X86, as is Oracle 9i.

While individuals may still happily use OS/2 (and there are a number of them here), the OS as a wide-scale commercial platform is pretty much done. I haven't even seen an OS/2 ATM in a while. :-(

Hell, I use still TOS 1.0 on a TT030 at home, but I'm not about to claim that Atari isn't "over". There are probably BeOS users out there as well. But neither of those could hardly be called going concerns.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New uh oh
can you shoot me an email on the qt about how the x86 sol 10 vendor support vs linux support? I have to make a decision regarding which path to follow for the next 3 years by nov 1.
williamoxley at netscrape dot net
Appreciate if you are able to.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New No problem.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Actually... (new thread)
Created as new thread #229188 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=229188|Actually...]
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New It's not over, but it's over commercially
A guy can still make a few bucks selling OS/2 software, but not enough to afford travel any distance and taking time out. Most OS/2 users pretty much have the software they need already.

Most new OS/2 software will be ports from Linux, much of it open source. Commercial developers can't really compete with that. I don't know where NetLab's Everblue project is now but running Linux software in an OS/2 window rather than just full screen would be a good development.

I'll continue running OS/2 for quite some time because it serves my needs quite well, but I don't need a lot of new software either. I don't see many people migrating to OS/2 even after the Doomsday Worm hits Windows because it hasn't the mindshare and IBM simply won't back it any more.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Re: It's not over, but it's over commercially
As a consultant who sells and supports OS/2 (among other OSes), I can say that there is just as much revenue to be made supporting OS/2 as any other OS, as long as your practice consists of more than "break and fix." I'm a NetWare consultant. If I had to make a living fixing broken NetWare installations, vs upgrading and expanding NetWare shops, I'd be hungry. Only M$-only guys can make a living literally running around like chickens without heads plugging leaks and applying security patches...

No, we did not have a huge vendor turnout at Warpstock Hershey, but we had more than last year, and perhaps more than we had in San Francisco in 2003; I take that as a good sign. We had a bigger crowd this year than last (and perhaps 2003, as well; I haven't looked at an exact tally as yet).

I was in Atlanta in 1999, and that was significantly larger than Austin, SF, or Denver; that doesn't mean that 2002, 2003, or 2004 weren't also excellent events. I don't judge Warpstock by the vendor participation (alone). We had 12 half day classes and 23 presentations (IIRC), and over the entire 4-day period, I did not hear one peep about there being sparse content or that people did not get a good value for the dollar.

2006 will be better than 2005, of this I am convinced. I really believe we turned a corner this year, and as M$ continues to give lip service to becoming "security conscious," eCS gains more and more opportunities to compete. As Linux gains ground against Win32, so also, do we, as odd as that may sound. Many enterprises are migrating from the Windows desktop to the KDE or Gnome environment, mainly to gain security and stability. However, often they face the harsh reality that neither of those are particularly adaptable or truly object oriented, as is the WPS.

I am not trying to make a case for the desktop wars. I'm only stating that as long as eCS (OS/2, under it all) offers a compelling alternative, and as long as such an alternative is needed by the global user community, Warpstock will continue to offer itself as an annual resource. Only when there is no need for such alternatives (and I, frankly, cannot see that time coming in the next decade) will there be debate as to the viability of Warpstock and similar events. (BTW, there have been three OS/2 events so far this year, and yet another one coming...remember when there were none?)

--
Lewis
------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis G Rosenthal, CNA, CLE
Rosenthal & Rosenthal, LLC
Accountants / Network Consultants
New York / Northern Virginia www.2rosenthals.com
eComStation Consultants www.ecomstation.com
Novell Users International www.novell.com/linux/truth

Warpstock 2005 - Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6-9, 2005 www.warpstock.org
------------------------------------------------------------
New Hey, Lewis, long time no see
Hope all is well with you and yours.

Jack
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Re: Hey, Lewis, long time no see
Same to you, Jack. ;-) Good to see you on these pages. I just discovered this little Zope site after Mark mentioned some comments about WS Hershey (which was a blast, BTW; unfortunately, as the event chair, I didn't get to see much in the sessions, but I had people at our vendor booth on a regular basis, and I have a hunch that I'm even going to turn some of that discussion into new work (which is the point of it, at least from the vendor table perspective).

Be well. Catch you later!
--
Lewis
------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis G Rosenthal, CNA, CLE
Rosenthal & Rosenthal, LLC
Accountants / Network Consultants
New York / Northern Virginia www.2rosenthals.com
eComStation Consultants www.ecomstation.com
Novell Users International www.novell.com/linux/truth

Warpstock 2005 - Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6-9, 2005 www.warpstock.org
------------------------------------------------------------
New Sigh
Ah, inflamed passions of (can't be youth) hmmmmm.

It is an orphan technology.

It has been disavowed by the core developers.

It is closed source.

It is over.

It may take a long time to fall down, but it is inevitable.

It may outlive me, hanging on, being supported by people such as yourself. If you can make a living on it, great, no argument.

But there is finite dwindling number of companies that use it. There may be an occasional new company, as an OS/2 person goes from one to another, but there is no mindshare, no public pushing, no advertising of any realistic amount that could make a difference, no serious possibility of future expansion of usage.

As each next generation of hardware comes out every few years, there is less and less of a chance that it will run on it. So the possibility for running on new gear dwindles.
New The future
imho is implementing the WPS to run under X, or perhaps some other graphical system like X.

Done right, it could kick serious ass. It's not the tech itself, it's the ideas behind the tech that make it so good... it would be a shame to see some of those ideas disappear.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New People have been talking about it since 1992.
Remember that the Workplace Shell on OS/2 was supposed to be the first piece of IBM's grand vision of having the WPS everywhere (even DOS, though that was dropped as it was too memory intensive, IIRC.). There was a [link|http://hobbes.nmsu.edu/pub/windows/wpsfw151.zip|WPS for Win16] that was pretty neat (as a concept, but limited), but the WPS never went beyond OS/2 and Win16. At least not publicly.

I have to think that IBM has a WPS for Unix in a drawer somewhere, or had someone write it under contract and that vendor has it in a drawer somewhere. The fact that there hasn't been an Open Source work-alike in all these many years tells me that it's not a simple problem.

:-(

Is anyone working on it? I don't see anything at [link|http://www.netlabs.org|http://www.netlabs.org]

Thanks.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Yes, definitely not a simple problem
In a way, you could say that it's why I'm going to school. OTOH, there are certain things that exist now that make it way easier than it was say ten years ago, or even five years ago.

Still, it's definitely not a simple problem. OTOH, it's certainly far from an intractable one.

I think part of the reason people haven't produced it is that most programmers (and esp. *nix programmers of the snooty variety) have had no exposure to it.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New You could liken it to a vintage car.
OS/2. Original VW Beetle. Over? Yes.

But does it still have its loyal fans, its people who use it daily, and who attend convetions, get-togethers and swap-meets about it? Absolutely.

All I need now is accusations of Beetle zealots stuffing online ballots, and my comparison will be complete :)
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
New There are rumors...
That when DARPA and others were first online(1972-3)... there was a DDoS simply because of the programmed voting for the VM Beetle as Car and Boat of the year.

Of course this doesn't explain why in 1963 a similar occurance happen... but the mail carriers cheated and used trucks to dump the mail in-line for Car and Driver to tally.
--
[link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg],
[link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey
Freedom is not FREE.
Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars?
SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;

0 rows returned.
New Piece of crap car
Steering so bad you thought you were driving a home made go-cart with rope twisted around the steering column.
Car so light the slightest breeze could push you off the road.
Straw in the seats, at bit of dampness and they co stinky moldy.

On the other hand, you could fly over bumps and never bottom out.
New ecxept for the second sentence you are describing my van
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Re: Days 2 & 3
"Mark, I'm not about to get into an argument here. I've laid out my impressions, based on the last Warpstock I attended which was in 2000. Sorry that they bother you so much."

I'm not arguing, but yes it bothers me that you give a slanted report on what is today an insignificant aspect. People buy what they need for OS/2-eComStation over the internet. Hell I was surprised that we had any vendors showup. That is the reality.

After four days of classes and sessions all you comment on was the lack of vendors. Something that anyone who has followed OS/2 over the past 10 years has seen disappear. You pick the one thing we have absolutely no control over. The scumbag cookie salesman killed the OS/2 market and stabbed all the OS/2 developers in the back. So yeah its tough to find anyone willing to peddle OS/2 related products. That is something a group of dedicated users can't do anything about. Keep in mind that Warpstock has never had any real support from IBM, and is entirely put on by users. Hell IBM tells their employees not to come and in Austin they insisted on having an auditor in every IBMer's session to spy on what was being said. (We told them sure, so long as the person paid for an admission :-) So we don't have billions to buy interest. In our case its genuine.

Did you not go to any sessions? Wasn't there anything else you can report on (good or bad) from the event? If you never left the exhibit area, then perhaps you have a point. But you don't even mention the OS/2 museum which was there.



Mark
For a choice in the future JOIN VOICE NOW
check out [link|http://www.os2voice.org/index.html|http://www.os2voice.org/index.html]

For a choice in the future JOIN VOICE NOW
check out [link|http://www.os2voice.org/index.html|http://www.os2voice.org/index.html]

Warpstock 2005 Hershey, The Sweetest one yet - [link|http://www.warpstock.org|http://www.warpstock.org]
New Re: Days 2 & 3
I'm not arguing, but yes it bothers me that you give a slanted report on what is today an insignificant aspect.

What, exactly, is "slanted" about a valid observation as to the vendors present at Warpstock? I expected there to be less vendors than I've seen in the past, but not to this extent.

Hell I was surprised that we had any vendors showup. That is the reality.

Well, next time I'll set my expectation level in accordance with that reality.

After four days of classes and sessions all you comment on was the lack of vendors.

Because it was the most glaring thing in my mind, based on past experiences at Atlanta, Phoenix (WarpTech 2000), and Philly. If you take someone whose last impressions of Warpstock was 4+ years old, what would you expect them to notice?

Did you not go to any sessions?

I went to a few sessions. I'll pull the relavant comments from my previous post, which you seemed to have missed:

I'm impressed with the progress made on the installer and Stan's session on networking made me aware of a couple of wireless devices I had not heard of. I also thought Lewis' session on wireless was a bit informative.

Wasn't there anything else you can report on (good or bad) from the event?

Oh, sure there is. I just thought it best to leave it alone, but if you want to go there, I'm game. I'll give you the codes used for the various sessions I attended and comment on them.


TUT-04: Lewis Rosenthal: Wireless Networking for Non-Geeks

Nice presentation with a speaker who knows how to entertain and inform. Make sure you get him to attend furture Warpstocks. He's a keeper. I was aware of a good number of things he talked about, but that didn't detract from the session.


CL-05: Samba on OS/2

Presentation seemed to be poorly structured and awkwardly done. Walked out of the session after 30-45 minutes because I wasn't getting anything useful out of the session. I use Netware here at the house, so Samba isn't on my radar, but I figured I give it a shot. Beside the language barrier, the speaker was too soft-spoken to be effective and I actually started to fall asleep. His work at Mensys is great, but I think he needs work to hone his presentation skills.


CL-09: Install/Maintain eCS

This is where I learned about the latest installer for eCS. Good presentation and good information all around. I did not know that hardware detection had progressed that far, but was pleased to see it. Alex has done excellent work on the installer program.


ADV-04: Mike Kaply: Mozilla: Past, Present, Future

Mike's always been good. The history of web browsers on OS/2 & eCS was entertaining. He's done a yeoman's job on keeping Mozilla/Firefox current on OS/2 & eCS. Glad to see we still have him on "our" side.


TUT-03: Stanley Sidlov: Networking for Non-Geeks

Stan's another good speaker who knows how to keep a room's attention. I knew a good bit of what he covered, but there were a couple of items that I didn't know. Wireless ethernet devices was one of them. Solves a lot of problems with wireless access for eCS. I might be looking into one of those, depending on how the genn-mac driver pans out. I have a completely unsupported Netgear MA-521 that works fine in Windoze, but nowhere else.


ADV-03: Peter Grubbs: An OS/2 Publication

Never met Peter before and found him to be a good speaker as well. I pretty much knew the fate of OS/2-Ezine. Found his ideas about getting it (or another publication) started again to be interesting, but not sure we'll ever see it rise from the ashes.


DEM-08: Arne Blankets: Tips and Tricks of the Mozilla Suite

Didn't get much out of this one because when Arne started talking about some sort of web development extension, I tuned out. I'm not interested in doing web design. Left that session in the first 30-45 minutes, I believe. Went to another session.


ADV-02 & ADV-01

These 2 were put together in the same room at sort of the last minute. Got there too late for the Future of Ecs, but did manage to get there for the Birds of a Feather part. Hard to give a good report on this combined session, since I missed the first half. What I did stick around for seemed to be ok.


DEM-03: Chuck McKinnis: Ecs Maintainence Tool

Chuck's work in REXX is amazing to me. The program he's come up with to keep updates installed is great. Be sure to keep him coming as well. Got some good information there.


Friday afternoon didn't seem to have much that interested us, so we went off to the Indian Echo Caverns and visited one of her old co-workers that lived in the Hershey area. We left on Sunday about 2:30 in the afternoon.

So, do you think I've covered enough ground now?
New Re: Days 2 & 3

[Snip good report on some of what happened at Warpstock.]

> So, do you think I've covered enough ground now?
>

Of course, that is exactly what I was asking for. How about writing an article on it for VOICE so people that couldn't make it this year can see what they missed?

Mark
For a choice in the future JOIN VOICE NOW
check out [link|http://www.os2voice.org/index.html|http://www.os2voice.org/index.html]

Warpstock 2005 Hershey, The Sweetest one yet - [link|http://www.warpstock.org|http://www.warpstock.org]
New Re: Days 2 & 3
How about writing an article on it for VOICE so people that couldn't make it this year can see what they missed?

No thanks. I don't write articles. It's not me. It wouldn't be completely positive, that's for sure.

Besides, seeing the response here to a negative comment makes me wonder just how much of what I'd write would make it to print. It's obvious to me that some folks took what I've said personally.

While vendors aren't what makes Warpstock, their participation in the event (in my opinion) does make an impression on the health of the community in general, especially if you've been a past attendee.

If this was your first Warpstock, it went fairly well. If 2003 and 2004 were as bad as I've seen a couple people comment on, then this was definately a great year. Nowhere to go but up, and all that.

If I'm making a comparison of Warpstock 2000 to Warpstock 2005 based on vendor participation, I'm very concerned about how much longer the event can continue on. I don't think that's an unreasonable observation.

Now, maybe my opinion would have been different if I had attended the 2003 and 2004 events, but I remember things as they were in 2000. I expected a drop-off, but had no idea it was in its current state.

I'm a home user now. I don't do consulting work anymore. I've pretty much lost interest in the computer industry in general. It's just gotten too depressing to have to deal with Windoze environments to make a living. There's no joy in it. It's the same shit all the time. I'm also so far behind the curve that I couldn't get back in the game even if I wanted to.

I sit here day in and day out, using what I consider to be the best GUI platform out there. I use Windoze ocassionally. Linux has come a long way, but the UI still leaves me wanting. I always find myself back in OS/2 at the end of the day; sometimes, at the end of an hour.

I don't see a lot of sessions at Warpstock geared to the home user. They seem more in line with the computer professional and maybe that's where they truly belong. I'd still like to know there are things I can do with OS/2 other than business.

I'd like to see a session on installing the OS on things that aren't ThinkPads. Something on the order of user-built white boxes and how to solve install issues on them. Maybe even how to get multiple OSes on a box the user built themselves. That kind of session could go on for all 4 days, but I think it would be a hell of a thing to do.

I'd like sessions on MP3 players and rippers, Bit-torrent clients, DVD players, digtal camera interfacing, and what Mozilla / Firefox extensions are available and work in the OS/2 versions.

I just seems to me that if you're not into programming or keeping the system up & running, the list of "Fun Things To Do With eCS" sessions isn't very long. You can't work all the time, you know.

Anyway, I consider this chapter closed. Pardon my ranting. It's something I've gotten worse at lately.

Or better at. Depends on your point of view, I guess.
     Greetings from the Wyndham Harrisburg & Warpstock 2005! - (n3jja) - (54)
         Neat! Have a great time. -NT - (Another Scott)
         We expect a full report. - (imqwerky) - (2)
             Re: We expect a full report. - (n3jja) - (1)
                 Bummer! -NT - (imqwerky)
         Geez, talk about retro - (broomberg) - (5)
             Breaker breaker, haven't you heard? Ham radio is dead! - (CRConrad)
             Too late! ;-) -NT - (n3jja) - (3)
                 I wonder what your call letters are? Hmm ... -NT - (drewk) - (2)
                     OU812? -NT - (folkert) - (1)
                         License on a minivan: PB4WEGO -NT - (drewk)
         Right on - (jake123)
         Days 2 & 3 - (n3jja) - (27)
             Re: Days 2 & 3 - (madodel) - (26)
                 Re: Days 2 & 3 - (n3jja) - (25)
                     It's over - (broomberg) - (8)
                         Re: It's over - (madodel) - (2)
                             OMFG! OS/2 flaming! - (drewk) - (1)
                                 ICLRPD (new thread) - (inthane-chan)
                         Re: It's over - (LewisR) - (4)
                             I don't see anyone here saying those are over. - (admin) - (3)
                                 uh oh - (boxley) - (2)
                                     No problem. -NT - (admin)
                                     Actually... (new thread) - (admin)
                     It's not over, but it's over commercially - (Andrew Grygus) - (11)
                         Re: It's not over, but it's over commercially - (LewisR) - (6)
                             Hey, Lewis, long time no see - (jake123) - (1)
                                 Re: Hey, Lewis, long time no see - (LewisR)
                             Sigh - (broomberg) - (3)
                                 The future - (jake123) - (2)
                                     People have been talking about it since 1992. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                         Yes, definitely not a simple problem - (jake123)
                         You could liken it to a vintage car. - (Meerkat) - (3)
                             There are rumors... - (folkert)
                             Piece of crap car - (broomberg) - (1)
                                 ecxept for the second sentence you are describing my van -NT - (boxley)
                     Re: Days 2 & 3 - (madodel) - (3)
                         Re: Days 2 & 3 - (n3jja) - (2)
                             Re: Days 2 & 3 - (madodel) - (1)
                                 Re: Days 2 & 3 - (n3jja)
         Any of you? - (SpiceWare) - (14)
             Escaped!! No close-ups!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! -NT - (n3jja) - (11)
                 No close-ups? True. But you did not escape... (img) - (folkert)
                 Oh yeah? Then who is this charming fellow? - (imqwerky) - (9)
                     Center frame even! Awesome. -NT - (folkert)
                     hey is that a man purse next to the water glass? :-) -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                         T-shirt, camera & camera case, you impudent wretch!! -NT - (n3jja)
                     I'll get you , my pretty.... and your little dog too!! -NT - (n3jja) - (5)
                         Did you really mean to call her a bitch??? - (CRConrad) - (3)
                             Better now, Mr. Anal Retentive? -NT - (n3jja) - (1)
                                 Yes, much. Thank you! -NT - (CRConrad)
                             Either works when the involved have shared suds at the bash! - (bepatient)
                         You'll be the first one in the water next year at Beep's - (imqwerky)
             the Interesting link is very first wireless computer -NT - (jbrabeck) - (1)
                 Actually, I remember those boxes... - (GBert)

No. Just no. Not a potential no, a solid diamond-hard no. Like, seriously Chuck Norris testicles-hard no.
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