Post #223,517
9/7/05 6:18:48 PM
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Are car dealers haggling anymore?
Back in 1985 I spent 3 weeks negotiating the price of a 1985 Nissan Sentra. The starting price was around $7,500 and I ended up tax, tag and all for $6,513 (I was a poor college schmuck back then and $1,000 was a lot of money). Am going to buy a Corolla and with these gas prices and the Corolla's 41 MPG highway, I'm guessing all dealers are getting list. Is that a correct assumption? The local dealers are completely out of Corollas.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #223,518
9/7/05 6:20:50 PM
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down here lots of haggle room, was at the ford dealer monday
looking at a 4cyl ranger 25-29 mpg was 16k this spring first offer was 12,420 I just didnt want to make the payments.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #223,528
9/7/05 6:53:13 PM
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I'm about to go used.
Planning on e-mailing something like this near the end of the month to a bunch of dealers, seeing what comes back: Greetings,
I am looking for a used diesel toyota or honda two or four door sedan. I am not interested in spending more than $6000. I am not overly concerned with the condition of the interior (other than leaks), however, I would like a car that is relatively free of mechanical issues. All sales will be contingent on final inspection by an auto mechanic of my choice at my expense. I am open to discussion on financing options. Hoping to catch some schmuck who is desperate to make quota near end of month, he thinks he'll make it back with the financing, I'll take whatever financing they give me then turn around and pay cash for it instead. apt-get install godlike-powers
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Post #223,539
9/7/05 7:38:02 PM
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they dont "make" it back with the financing
they offshore the financing for a very small cut. Good luck in anycase.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #223,558
9/7/05 8:34:07 PM
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I think you'll have trouble finding a diesel Toyo or Honda.
AFAIK, neither one of them has made a diesel car for sale in the US (at least not in the last 20 years).
For diesels you're looking at VW, Mercedes, some old GM boats (from the '80s), and big pick-ups (and a very few odd imports).
Consider a small light car like an old Nissan Sentra if you're looking for inexpensive and good mileage.
Luck with the search!
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #223,572
9/7/05 9:26:58 PM
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Two things I'm looking for:
Reliable
Fuel-efficient
In that order.
apt-get install godlike-powers
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Post #223,575
9/7/05 9:42:28 PM
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spend 4k more and get new
10k thereabouts for a 2005 nissan sentra around here
than,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #223,616
9/7/05 11:50:36 PM
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Because 6k is pushing it.
I'd actually be happy with a reliable piece of shit that cost 3k.
apt-get install godlike-powers
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Post #223,619
9/8/05 12:13:05 AM
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You can probably get a 2000 Corolla for ~ $4 - 5k.
Hunt around Craig's List. [link|http://seattle.craigslist.com/car/96107242.html|$800 1982 Corolla wagon]. Sounds great - seriously. [link|http://seattle.craigslist.com/car/96118720.html|$4200 - new motor and clutch, Honda Civic HX coupe].
There are good cars out there for < $5k if you're careful in looking. It helps to have a gear-head friend who can go with you to check things out.
Luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #223,576
9/7/05 9:43:02 PM
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Old Joke: Pick 2: (Reliable, Fuel Efficient, Inexpensive)
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Post #223,532
9/7/05 7:00:33 PM
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Driven a '05
(Friend replaced my old Saab with same - for planned regime of long trips.)
While that particular one had a misadjusted clutch engagement, which prejudiced my initial impressions -- I rode in it on freeways, drove it a bit in Whittier (LA) and concluded:
Amazingly comfortable ride for such a too-short wheelbase and also 'decent' quick-handling (I always focus on Handling). The taillight 'treatment' reminds of Laura's quip re those aluminum xmas trees.. truly appalling IMnsHO.
She has since made many trips LA <--> AZ, gets the claimed mileage; not a single problem (except I Have to keep nagging her to take out a few minutes: and FIX the %&$#$ clutch, before she becomes inured to crap-correction and sucks it up).
I could live with this car, ('cept it cost lots more than my Acura Plutocrat, and on the road: no comparison on lots of levels). Assembly quality (engine room) seems typ Toyota quality, far as I could see == no oil weeps after ~16K mi. More plastic things than I like to see in engine rooms, but.. wave of futchah.
Luck in the crap shoot,
moi
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Post #223,553
9/7/05 8:09:05 PM
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Do your homework first.
If you're going to get a new car, it behooves you to know what the dealer pays for the car. If you only have one car that you want, then go to the [link|http://www.consumerreports.org/|Consumer Reports] website. Pay the $12 or so to figure out what the dealer paid for your car, including the dealer cost for all options that you want. Add up the dealer cost. Start negotiating from there. If you pay much more than $500-700 over that, you're getting screwed.
I purchased 2 Accords in 1998 (same day). Paid ~$425 over dealer invoice. I bought a 2004 Nissan Maxima around Memorial Day 2004, and paid ~$650 over dealer invoice.
Don't play games with 'em. Whatever you do, don't tell them "I want to pay $X per month" for this thing. There's so many ways to get screwed doing that. Education is your best friend when buying a car. Know how much he paid for it, be willing to offer him a little bit more than that, and don't be afraid to walk out without a car. After all, there's gotta be another Toyota dealer a few miles away who's paying the exact same thing for the same car and is willing to make a deal. Know all of the information above before you even set foot on the dealer's lot, including the most you're willing to pay for the car. Don't get fooled, stick to your guns, and walk if you're not getting satisfied.
-YendorMike
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
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Post #223,561
9/7/05 8:38:12 PM
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Seconded: seen it Work 3x now. Any less effort: Lose$$
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Post #223,601
9/7/05 11:07:21 PM
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Definitely don't do that
If the dealer hears anything from you about what you're willing to pay, they've just heard the base negotiating price that they start from. For anything.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #223,640
9/8/05 5:18:30 AM
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I don't think he said that you should
Y. mentioned specifically Not-to mention 'some monthly amount you'd pay'. He said 'Know all that info' not 'Tell that info'.
But your point should be stressed, I agree: NEVER reveal your own limits!
(I also Mike meant by 'dealer invoice' above, not the silly piece of paper in window - but what CU or other provided as ~ actual dealer cost. That will be at least, close.)
Also not given enough attention above IMO - you can almost *always beat financing from a dealer via a Cr. Union or similar. (AFTER a firm cash price has been sealed, would be When you ask dealer - if you must; then you'd best have your biz-%calc handily there, or in mind, to detect the fudging and 'muffler adjustment' fees.)
These guys are almost 16% as bad as the Bushies, after all!
* Canna say.. where credit is besmirched; maybe sometimes the dealer Is the last resort (?)
My 3 \ufffd
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Post #223,655
9/8/05 10:04:32 AM
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Re: Definitely don't do that
You must be misinterpreting me, because I never said to *say* what you're willing to pay.
You hold the money that the dealer wants to relieve you of. The price where you should start your negotiations is the dealer invoice -- IE, what the car dealer paid for the car.
Yes, in rare situations, the dealer might take a loss on a given vehicle, but I don't think a Corolla fits that bill currently. And since this is not an American-owned car company, we don't need to consider "employee pricing."
So you start your negotiations at what the dealer paid. Offer him a few hundred more than that, and stand firm. Personally, I don't haggle. When I've bought my cars, the dealers know that I know how much they've paid. They know that I'm willing to offer them some cash on top of that. And they know that they're not gonna be able to fuck with me. Education is your friend.
When I went to buy my Maxima, the sales droid tried to go into the "what are you willing to pay per month" game. I never gave him a number, and he got flustered. He was a relatively new drone, and obviously not used to customers who didn't play along with his game. He had to run and get the sales manager, who handled me in a much more professional manner. And I ended up getting the deal I wanted on the car, and 1.9% financing to boot.
If you pay the price on the sticker in the window of the car, you're getting fucked. Not screwed, but fucked.
-YendorMike
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
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Post #223,657
9/8/05 10:32:07 AM
9/8/05 10:34:06 AM
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Good advice.
That is precisely what I did when I bought the Sentra back in 1985 (and why it took 3 weeks to do it). On that deal, I walked out and the dealership kept calling me until finally I got the car for what I wanted ($500 above their cost).
I guess the old way is still the best way. ;0)
[Edit]: Back in 1985, Tercel's in NC were going for $1,000 to $2,000 above list. You got on a wait list, they called you, you came in and looked at the car, voted up or down and then paid through the nose. I wasn't going to do that and the Sentra was my next choice. If I'd have purchased a Tercel that year, in that region, I'd have paid over $10,000 for what, essentially, was a Sentra with a Toyota logo.
bcnu,
Mikem
It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Edited by mmoffitt
Sept. 8, 2005, 10:34:06 AM EDT
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Post #223,688
9/8/05 1:41:26 PM
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Miscommunication, I was agreeing with you
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #223,571
9/7/05 9:25:09 PM
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Back in '98
I drove to Lubbock because my brother used to play golf with a Nissan sales guy. He made me a deal I couldn't refuse...$100 over invoice. He sold cars all day long...same deal. He made all the money he wanted and then moved on to something else.
The fun part was driving a new Altima home to surprise Mr. Critter. :-) That sucker was loaded and all I paid was 16K + change. Saaaawwwweeeeeet!
Peace,
Amy
Pray for the survivors of Katrina.
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Post #223,577
9/7/05 9:44:34 PM
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everyone here knows that "invoice" is kack right?
the car on the lot is leased from the dealer for about $300 (varies by model) dealer never really "owns" the inventory. Invoice to dealer is prety much what they want it to be.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #223,595
9/7/05 10:58:41 PM
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Which is why you pay CU or probably several others, now
for a breakdown of as near Actual dealer cost (with known kickbacks, perks, 'incentives' and other tomfoolery -- itemized) as you are apt to get, on your own.
Save that $12-25 First expense - at a high cost.
As you say, "Dealer Invoice 'cost'" is about as useful as a promise to be a uniter not a divider.
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Post #223,600
9/7/05 11:07:06 PM
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If he wants a Toy, he should remember BT's recent experience
[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=209869|#209869].
Bottom line - The "invoice" price doesn't tell you everything you need to know about what the dealer will accept for a car. It's still a crap shoot even when you have all the public info.
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #223,598
9/7/05 11:04:05 PM
9/7/05 11:06:17 PM
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Dealer Holdback
There's something called "dealer holdback". There's a website that gives the amount or percent of holdback by Manufacturer. Here's a writeup on it from the Edmunds site. [link|http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback|Holdback]
Usually, $100 over invoice is about as good as it gets, unless you find a day that noone is buying. A very wet, bad weather day. If the dealer hasn't made their sales quota, end of month can be promising, too.
My wife is the queen of negotiations. She won't buy unless she's in the holdback. My mother had a deal on a used car about 2 years ago. Before she said "yes", she called my wife and my wife managed to get an additional $2000 off of the deal.
Glen Austin
Edited by gdaustin
Sept. 7, 2005, 11:06:17 PM EDT
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Post #223,602
9/7/05 11:09:51 PM
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When I bought my minivan...
I walked out of the office. There was still 2K on the table and I wasn't going to budge. The guy kept calling me..."How 'bout we tint the windows fer ya?" To which I replied,"Timmy, Timmy, Timmy. Tinted windows are standard on this model. Buh Bye!"
This went on until the middle of the month when he finally relented.
As Peter Venkmann said, "Back off, man. I'm a scientist." Don't mess with me when I'm bargaining. You will end up with a bloody stump.
Peace,
me
Pray for the survivors of Katrina.
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Post #223,604
9/7/05 11:11:16 PM
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ICLRPD. (new thread)
Created as new thread #223603 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=223603|ICLRPD.]
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