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Post #222,391
by broomberg
9/1/05 10:43:51 PM
Reply
New Disagree
At least for myself.

I tend to reflect back what someone said in detail to ensure we both understand someting the same way.

But long winded speeches merely obscure the meaning and give people escape hatches to deny a specific interpretation. These people are not trying to communicate, they are merely enjoying the sound of their own voice.
Post #222,393
by ben_tilly
9/1/05 10:55:49 PM
Reply
New I think we just demonstrated the "lossy" part. :-)
I said that when trying to communicate with non-programmers, their assumption tends to be correct. You are a programmer, and hence do not serve as an example either way on that assertion.

You point out that often people are talking for purposes other than communication. I agree, but consider that tangential to the question of why people are long-winded when they are obviously trying to communicate.

And a final point of irony. Being long-winded only works in some contexts. For instance those who deal with journalists learn to avoid long-winded answers. Journalists are masters of taking snippets of an answer out of context and using it to portray the illusion of an intent to communicate where there was none. And journalists will not bother repeating anything that they think will lose their audience. You don't own a TV station of a newspaper. You will never get to explain yourself once you've been misunderstood.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #222,395
by static
9/1/05 11:02:52 PM
Reply
New Experiences language teachers know it, too.
Though they don't think of it in the same way. My Japanese teacher pointed out several times that we shouldn't worry about understanding every word - many can be figured out from context or even completely ignored.

Wade.
d-_-b
     The worst natural disaster in US history - (Silverlock) - (74) - Aug. 31, 2005, 09:43:31 PM EDT
         I agree completely - (Nightowl) - Aug. 31, 2005, 09:47:07 PM EDT
         compared to the galveston hurricane or the okeechobee - (boxley) - (30) - Aug. 31, 2005, 10:08:41 PM EDT
             You probably have something to say I'd be interested in - (Silverlock) - (29) - Aug. 31, 2005, 10:13:28 PM EDT
                 feel free to not read me in my posts :-) -NT - (boxley) - (28) - Aug. 31, 2005, 10:31:33 PM EDT
                     I try - (Silverlock) - (27) - Aug. 31, 2005, 10:42:31 PM EDT
                         Come on man, if he did that . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (26) - Aug. 31, 2005, 11:45:09 PM EDT
                             I agree - (Nightowl) - Aug. 31, 2005, 11:51:51 PM EDT
                             I'd rather have the anchovy. -NT - (Silverlock) - Aug. 31, 2005, 11:58:28 PM EDT
                             So what is the correct term, Ashtonese or Ashlish? - (jb4) - (5) - Sept. 1, 2005, 06:14:21 PM EDT
                                 Bafflegarblish -NT - (broomberg) - Sept. 1, 2005, 06:15:52 PM EDT
                                 Dupe - ignore. -NT - (Nightowl) - Sept. 1, 2005, 06:44:20 PM EDT
                                 Ashtonish? - (Nightowl) - Sept. 1, 2005, 06:35:42 PM EDT
                                 Ashtonese. - (inthane-chan) - (1) - Sept. 1, 2005, 07:19:29 PM EDT
                                     I'd have to agree. - (Nightowl) - Sept. 1, 2005, 07:43:40 PM EDT
                             If I started writing in plain-vanilla instruction-manual - (Ashton) - (17) - Sept. 1, 2005, 10:04:57 PM EDT
                                 Like I said elsewhere - (Nightowl) - Sept. 1, 2005, 10:15:18 PM EDT
                                 But this one was very clear - (broomberg) - (9) - Sept. 1, 2005, 10:21:50 PM EDT
                                     As I've often said... - (ben_tilly) - (3) - Sept. 1, 2005, 10:28:29 PM EDT
                                         Disagree - (broomberg) - (2) - Sept. 1, 2005, 10:43:51 PM EDT
                                             I think we just demonstrated the "lossy" part. :-) - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Sept. 1, 2005, 10:55:49 PM EDT
                                                 Experiences language teachers know it, too. - (static) - Sept. 1, 2005, 11:02:52 PM EDT
                                     Why are we who we are? - (Nightowl) - (2) - Sept. 1, 2005, 10:31:46 PM EDT
                                         You are way off about Box - (broomberg) - (1) - Sept. 1, 2005, 10:40:58 PM EDT
                                             As I said - (Nightowl) - Sept. 1, 2005, 10:42:45 PM EDT
                                     Gosh.. I'll have to revise, then - (Ashton) - (1) - Sept. 2, 2005, 02:04:29 AM EDT
                                         Thanks -NT - (broomberg) - Sept. 2, 2005, 07:10:21 AM EDT
                                 It depends on what you're trying to achieve. - (pwhysall) - (5) - Sept. 2, 2005, 01:45:08 AM EDT
                                     I Am Not a Number - (Ashton) - Sept. 2, 2005, 06:06:03 AM EDT
                                     Ashton's a playwright. - (Another Scott) - (3) - Sept. 2, 2005, 09:28:00 AM EDT
                                         And sometimes he's like this . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Sept. 2, 2005, 12:07:59 PM EDT
                                             Exactly right, Andrew - (jb4) - Sept. 2, 2005, 01:06:39 PM EDT
                                         Damn, Scott -- - (Ashton) - Sept. 2, 2005, 07:12:35 PM EDT
         I still think this is over-reacting. - (folkert) - (41) - Sept. 1, 2005, 09:34:01 AM EDT
             oil and petrochemical is the main deal, has been for a while - (boxley) - (1) - Sept. 1, 2005, 09:43:46 AM EDT
                 Yep - one wonders if this will be the spark - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 21, 2007, 06:04:50 AM EDT
             Read this. - (inthane-chan) - (18) - Sept. 1, 2005, 10:56:25 AM EDT
                 thin blue line erased in New Orleans, lord of the flies time -NT - (boxley) - (17) - Sept. 1, 2005, 01:04:05 PM EDT
                     All the smart people... - (ChrisR) - (16) - Sept. 1, 2005, 02:04:50 PM EDT
                         .. are destitute or invalids or hospitalized or ... :-( -NT - (Another Scott) - (7) - Sept. 1, 2005, 02:27:57 PM EDT
                             Desperate times... - (ChrisR) - (6) - Sept. 1, 2005, 03:15:29 PM EDT
                                 I'm wondering if this event might not set off some - (jake123) - (5) - Sept. 1, 2005, 03:22:26 PM EDT
                                     Not a chance - (hnick) - Sept. 1, 2005, 03:30:28 PM EDT
                                     Didn't in Los Angeles -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - Sept. 1, 2005, 03:39:18 PM EDT
                                     Third world country - (ChrisR) - Sept. 1, 2005, 03:39:31 PM EDT
                                     Naaah - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 21, 2007, 06:06:24 AM EDT
                                     Whatever else this massive boondoggle is explained-away with - (Ashton) - Sept. 2, 2005, 06:49:22 AM EDT
                         Are the poor who lack the resources to move - (tuberculosis) - (7) - Aug. 21, 2007, 06:05:57 AM EDT
                             no resources or will to evacuate and the last time people - (boxley) - (1) - Sept. 1, 2005, 03:05:28 PM EDT
                                 Yep - another article - (tuberculosis) - Aug. 21, 2007, 06:06:03 AM EDT
                             Re: Are the poor who lack the resources to move - (Nightowl) - (4) - Sept. 1, 2005, 03:27:00 PM EDT
                                 On the Titanic it was women and children first - (GBert) - (3) - Sept. 6, 2005, 09:35:31 AM EDT
                                     True, and that makes it worse yet - (Nightowl) - (2) - Sept. 6, 2005, 02:55:37 PM EDT
                                         Astute observation, O feathered One. -NT - (Ashton) - Sept. 6, 2005, 05:20:27 PM EDT
                                         Gives you pause don't it? - (GBert) - Sept. 7, 2005, 06:06:21 PM EDT
             Hey there, driver man... - (danreck) - (19) - Sept. 1, 2005, 04:13:34 PM EDT
                 Believe me, you have my compassion - (Nightowl) - (18) - Sept. 1, 2005, 03:30:34 PM EDT
                     What I can't understand... - (danreck) - (17) - Sept. 1, 2005, 04:18:20 PM EDT
                         It's only the poor. - (inthane-chan) - Sept. 1, 2005, 04:23:52 PM EDT
                         The National Guard is committed to helping - (tuberculosis) - (5) - Aug. 21, 2007, 06:06:34 AM EDT
                             Re: The National Guard is committed to helping - (altmann) - (4) - Sept. 1, 2005, 05:02:46 PM EDT
                                 21k NG troops allocated now by the feds (they pay em) - (boxley) - Sept. 1, 2005, 05:04:21 PM EDT
                                 Wow, really? - (drewk) - (2) - Sept. 1, 2005, 05:17:29 PM EDT
                                     The bigger problem might be the equipment anyways - (altmann) - (1) - Sept. 1, 2005, 06:57:51 PM EDT
                                         Heard in passing on NPR - yep. - (inthane-chan) - Sept. 1, 2005, 07:20:48 PM EDT
                         My opinion - (Nightowl) - Sept. 1, 2005, 04:31:53 PM EDT
                         That requires planning and forethought - (jake123) - (8) - Sept. 1, 2005, 04:44:52 PM EDT
                             I think this is a good time - (danreck) - (7) - Sept. 1, 2005, 05:30:59 PM EDT
                                 I'll tell my cousin-in-law that - (Nightowl) - (5) - Sept. 1, 2005, 05:35:46 PM EDT
                                     Re: I'll tell my cousin-in-law that - (danreck) - (4) - Sept. 1, 2005, 05:44:26 PM EDT
                                         I hope you get to help - (Nightowl) - (1) - Sept. 1, 2005, 05:46:05 PM EDT
                                             Supplies and volunteers - (Nightowl) - Sept. 1, 2005, 06:33:27 PM EDT
                                         Why don't you an mmoffit fly over and drop water bottles? -NT - (tuberculosis) - (1) - Aug. 21, 2007, 06:07:46 AM EDT
                                             I've got oil pressure problems at the moment. :0( -NT - (mmoffitt) - Sept. 6, 2005, 04:37:23 PM EDT
                                 I'm not talking about the fact that the levees failed - (jake123) - Sept. 1, 2005, 07:27:09 PM EDT

"No question," Trudeau said confidently, "it was definitely out my butt."
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