Post #194,742
2/15/05 10:33:42 AM
|
That isn't fair
Powell and Gonzales are not tokens or frauds. Powell earned his posistion straight up, it was just his mistake to accept it under Bush rather then somebody that actually cared about international politics. And Gonzales may be a scheming weasel of a lawyer who will justify his bosses posistion legally no matter how contorted the justification, but that is true of the majority in that field.
You can actually make the best case for Rice. It's pretty obvious that Rice was picked for reasons of loyalty then competency. And Rice is known for having told a group of black college students that the best way to get ahead was to latch on to a white guy that was going places.
Jay
|
Post #194,844
2/15/05 5:52:10 PM
|
sorry. my dad said the same thing
latch onto someone who has a clue and learn.
regards,
daemon
"I am not scared of al Qaeda, I am scared of fucking al Cracker sayeth Chris Rock
|
Post #194,859
2/15/05 7:50:49 PM
|
Same thing?
Rice's quote indicates that blacks can never succeed on their own, only whites can. I'd find that discouraging if I was black. Your dad's quote indicates that you can learn best from someone with a clue. That insults nobody.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
|
Post #194,868
2/15/05 9:29:16 PM
|
sigh, give me a list of successful black men to follow
when Rice was going to school.
regards,
daemon
"I am not scared of al Qaeda, I am scared of fucking al Cracker sayeth Chris Rock
|
Post #194,880
2/15/05 10:16:51 PM
|
George Washington Carver comes to mind...ottomh
OTTOM - off the top of me head.
|
Post #194,947
2/16/05 10:46:23 AM
|
Martin Luther King Jr likewise...
and why are we limiting it to men? Oprah Winfrey has managed a modicum of success as well.
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
|
Post #195,059
2/16/05 8:28:22 PM
|
hard to follow these two they are dead :-)
"I am not scared of al Qaeda, I am scared of fucking al Cracker sayeth Chris Rock
|
Post #195,166
2/17/05 11:48:43 AM
|
Oops, sorry, thought you wanted people
that what's-her-name-could follow (thus be alive when she was growing up and all).
|
Post #194,987
2/16/05 1:00:35 PM
|
Can't back up the quote
I can't find a link for the quote. But the context was not to find a succesful person and learn from them. The idea that was a black person should get ahead by finding a white person who was going to get ahead and latch on as a toady. I'll admit, it's just the sort of ugly bit that somebody might have made up to smear her though.
Jay
|
Post #195,005
2/16/05 2:03:14 PM
|
If she said that on the record
I don't understand how she managed to get as high as she is. Only certain kind of stupidity is allowed in our high quarters, and this is the wrong kind.
--
- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.
[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]
|
Post #195,119
2/17/05 9:00:48 AM
|
Heh. She "came up" in Texas, that's how.
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
|
Post #195,123
2/17/05 9:23:45 AM
|
hrm
Born November 14, 1954 in Birmingham, Alabama, she earned her bachelor's degree in political science, cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph.D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981. She is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and has been awarded honorary doctorates from Morehouse College in 1991, the University of Alabama in 1994, the University of Notre Dame in 1995, the National Defense University in 2002, the Mississippi College School of Law in 2003, the University of Louisville and Michigan State University in 2004. She resides in Washington, D.C. Don't see any mention of TX there. But y'all don't need facts. She's a black woman. NO WAY she did it on her own, RIGHT? Fucking sad, you are. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,132
2/17/05 9:44:49 AM
|
How 'bout "Texas brung her to the WH"? Okay?
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
|
Post #195,134
2/17/05 9:46:56 AM
|
And none of the afformentioned...
..VAST qualifications that she >>earned<< have a goddamned thing to do with it.
Really, why do you insist on making me repeat myself.
SAD.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,144
2/17/05 10:23:51 AM
|
Proud of this one (you omitted it, so I doubt it).
Rice was a Hoover Institute fellow from 1991 to 1993.
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
|
Post #195,148
2/17/05 10:33:36 AM
|
And this has exactly >what<...
...to do with the conversation?
Stanford >CA<
Unless they moved the school (and city) to Texas while I wasn't looking.
Try again.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,152
2/17/05 10:40:40 AM
2/17/05 10:42:09 AM
|
I can't keep up with ya.
[Edit: Gotta fix that damned "h" key].
But y'all don't need facts. She's a black woman. NO WAY she did it on her own, RIGHT?
Thought we'd moved on to "qualifications", merit and the like.
Like my favorite uncle told me once, "You can get an Ivy League education at a State College and you can get a State College education at an Ivy League school. It's up to you." So, the Stanford crap has little meaning to me.
The fact that she was most definitely, by any objective measure, asleep at the wheel up to and including 9/11/2001 demonstrates clearly that she was/is incompetent.
The fact that she has lied repeatedly makes her sleazy.
The fact that neither of the above has caused her to face firing and instead has faced promotion indicates clearly that something other than competence keeps her on her upward climb.
There. Is that clear enough?
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
Edited by mmoffitt
Feb. 17, 2005, 10:42:09 AM EST
|
Post #195,154
2/17/05 10:50:29 AM
|
and yet you're blaming it on Texas...
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
|
Post #195,155
2/17/05 10:55:37 AM
|
That was a poorly placed tongue-in-cheek reference to her
ties with Dubya.
I apologize to all the good people of Texas. I know there's one. I like Ann Richards (and, anyone here who has the great misfortune happens to hang his hat there).
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
|
Post #195,163
2/17/05 11:35:28 AM
|
And again...
...you tie her association with W to a summary dismissal of everything she has accomplished.
If she was asleep at the wheel through 9/11 for 8 months...she certainly was jumping in with a group that had been asleep for the 8 years prior (remember...GW kept Clintons team for continuity)
And you keep insisting that the subject matter is an absolute between true/false. Not a gradient of such based on best available evidence and advice. Lets hope you never get stuck in such and enviroment, lest it make your head explode for lack of ability to comprehend.
Its clear enough. It just has nothing to do with your rationalizations.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,165
2/17/05 11:43:56 AM
|
Clinton's team
Clinton's team tried to hand Bush reports of terrorist dangers and plans to deal with them. Bush's team (including Rice) wouldn't hear of it.
I don't know why they didn't want to talk about terrorism or do anything about it. But in such a situation it would have been Rice's job to measure the real relative dangers of things and bring the important ones to her boss's attention. Rice seems to have the done reverse, ignoring issues her boss didn't want to deal with.
As for truth and lies, I don't see a lot of shade of grey here. Rice outright lied about having been warned about terrorism before 9/11.
Jay
|
Post #195,167
2/17/05 11:52:40 AM
|
Oops....
(remember...GW kept Clintons team for continuity) You haven't read Clarke's memo, have you. Naughty, naughty.
|
Post #195,261
2/17/05 6:46:45 PM
|
Sure I have......
and it relates how?
If it was such an imminent issue, as he stated...why was it attached to a plan from 2000 and 1998. 2 years between work on such a >pressing< issue seems a bit much, no?
And it doesn't seem to say anything else other than there should be a meeting to decide if "the principles agree that this is a first order threat" and if so agreed to discuss modifications to the strategy (which appeared to be give money to the northern alliance).
This was not a warning, as everyone seems to be making it, but a request to revisit the strategy on Al Queda.
Read it from inside the beltway. Its a mindset you need to understand.
So...was she WARNED? No. So did she lie about "being warned"? No she did not.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,265
2/17/05 6:56:46 PM
|
D-I-Z-Z-Y
but that is what happens from too much spin....
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #195,270
2/17/05 7:30:49 PM
|
Quote
"Attached is the year end strategy on Al Qida developed by the last administration to give to you. Also attached is the 1998 strategy. Neither was a "covert action only" approach. Both incorporated diplomatic, economic, military, public diplomacy and intelligence tools. Using the 2000 paper as backround, we could prepare a decision paper/guide for a PC review.
I recommend you have a principle discussion of Al Qida soon and address the following issues:
<snip>
Please let us know if you would like such a decision/discussion paper or any modifications to the backround paper."
==============
Talk about your stern warnings. Damn, how could she or the President not see 9/11 coming after THAT?!?!
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,364
2/18/05 10:23:34 AM
|
BZZT....
and it relates how?
If it was such an imminent issue, as he stated...why was it attached to a plan from 2000 and 1998. 2 years between work on such a >pressing< issue seems a bit much, no?
It relates because she claimed she never received such a plan. Furthermore, you and I both know that the issue was being escalated over those years. Furthermore, a comprehensive plan would take years to accomplish. (Certainly you're not arguing that Bush should have been able to destroy al Qida quickly in the last 3 years, no?) So...was she WARNED? No. So did she lie about "being warned"? No she did not. Nope...didn't claim that. I claimed she LIED.
|
Post #195,386
2/18/05 12:24:06 PM
|
Ok...so now it gets even more complicated.
Did she receive a >plan< or did she receive a >proposal of a plan< or did she receive a recommendation or did she recieve a strategy or a proposal etc...?
Just because Clarke had a document and attached it doesn't mean it had been vetted and agreed on at the PC level. And if it hasn't been done at that level it isn't an official plan. Clarke became frustrated during the next several meetings because they wouldn't focus on that specific threat and those specific documents, instead focusing on "big picture" regional issues.
This is WASHINGTON DC. Again, I say, read it from inside the beltway. So. Did she lie or did she just tell a version of the truth that you happen to disagree with?
What I heard during the testimony was that noone in the administration viewed those documents as a comprehensive plan. (Everything in Washington takes years to accomplish). In her mind, what was sent did not constitute a plan. It was not complete. Even Clarke himself admits that nothing proposed would have prevented the attacks.
So, you can deal with your abolutes all you want. I'm not going to hang the lady's lifetime achievements out based on an inside the beltway dispute about what constitutes a plan and alot of hoopla about "liar liar pants on fire"
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,462
2/18/05 10:28:07 PM
|
No, no, no, no, no....
Did she receive a >plan< or did she receive a >proposal of a plan< or did she receive a recommendation or did she recieve a strategy or a proposal etc...? No, no, no, no, no... She wrote, in the Washington Post, that she NEVER received the Clinton plan regarding Al Qida. She chose the words. She chose to write the article. Regardless of whether it was a proposed plan (although I can't see how the 1998 plan would be proposed) or not, she chose the battle and the ground. If she wasn't clear, it's HER fault. Effectively you're arguing about what the definition of *IS* is. So, you can deal with your abolutes all you want. I'm not going to hang the lady's lifetime achievements out based on an inside the beltway dispute about what constitutes a plan and alot of hoopla about "liar liar pants on fire" I seem to recall someone *AHEM* claiming that those who still agreed with a known liar were enjoying the kool-aid. How's the kool-aid there BP? Can't even admit that she lied, even once?
|
Post #195,519
2/19/05 12:14:10 PM
|
Finally
Effectively you're arguing about what the definition of *IS* is. Welcome to DC. Do I think they presented something to her. Sure. Do I think they considered it a comprehensive plan, no. And there is others who enjoy this little semantic game "I think Condi Rice has at least an arguable case that it's short of a plan," said Michael E. O'Hanlon, a security analyst at the Brookings Institution.
Mr. O'Hanlon called Mr. Clarke's memorandums a set of "very dry data points. There's not a heightened sense of, 'Now our homeland is at risk.' "
But Matthew Levitt, who was an F.B.I. counterterrorism analyst in 2001, disagreed. He called the 13-page strategy memorandum "a pretty disturbing document."
Mr. Levitt, now director of terrorism studies at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, said that whether the document constitutes a "plan," as Mr. Clarke averred and Dr. Rice denied, is "a semantic debate." But he said the experience of reading the original documents for the first time Friday left him with a strong impression of the danger Al Qaeda posed. So is it a lie or a version of truth that you disagree with? Yes this is semantics. And in the end, this "plan" wouldn't have done a damned thing. Even the guy who wrote it said so. So regardless of which side of the truth your on, it really doesn't matter. Todd has brought out some of the better ones, though. Becasue some of these were used to prep for the war. Hang her for those. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,532
2/19/05 1:36:19 PM
|
There we go
I can't nail her for missing the airplane threat.
Although I do believe the entire administration took its eye off the ball and in doing so emboldened the terrorists in some way by taking heat off somehow. Definitely up to 9/11 the administration was blowing off foreign policy and running around prosecuting pornographers, drafting official school prayers and the like.
I can't hang my hat on that though.
What really burns my clams is the lying and selling during the run-up to the war and during the initial invasion. Why invade Iraq to nail bin Laden? Because the light is better over there?
That and disinformation and propaganda ON STUFF THAT MATTERS has become SOP.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #195,242
2/17/05 6:05:00 PM
|
I will say this
Elaine Crooks did it on her own. John Sutherland (local black figure from 19th century Kingston, Ontario; first black lawyer in Upper Canada) did it on his own. MLK did it on his own.
The kinds of adversity they faced make Rice's problems look like nothing; she comes from a lot of money.
My personal feeling about Condaleeza Rice is that she has done a terrible job as NSA; however, that doesn't particularly set her apart from the rest of the crew up there. My personal feeling is that there's a lot of self-dealing going on in the WH, that a lot of foreign policy is being driven by same, and imho the current crew is certainly the worst bunch in my time, and perhaps for all time; they make that circumvention of the US constitution called Iran-Contra look like a cakewalk.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #194,864
2/15/05 8:11:44 PM
|
Linky for Condi's comments? Thanks.
|
Post #194,865
2/15/05 8:54:07 PM
|
Does it matter?
Isn't her sleeze factor strong enough for you notwithstanding the veracity of that claim?
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
|
Post #194,870
2/15/05 9:33:01 PM
2/15/05 9:38:38 PM
|
I don't think she's sleazy.
I don't have a strong opinion about her either way because I haven't paid that much attention to her. I've heard rumors about her tenure as Provost at Stanford; I've seen some of her testimony before Congress; I skimmed one of her recent speeches to a church; and I've seen some of her comments on the Sunday TV news shows. She's an advocate for her and the administration's positions. She strikes me as someone who doesn't like to publicly admit mistakes (but who in a presidential administration does?). Her statements have been too categorical ("Nobody could have predicted ...") in some instances, but I don't think she's [link|http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=sleazy|sleazy].
YMMV.
I would like, if possible, to see a link to the reported comments. It might cause me to reevaluate my opinion.
[edit:] Typos. Spellbound doesn't work if I don't use it...
Cheers,
Scott.
|
Post #194,899
2/16/05 12:59:52 AM
|
C'mon now
Successful black woman in a republican cabinet?
She had to do >something< to get there!!<end sarcasm>
Nope, her individual success is forever lost on these folks because she had the misfortune of being in the Bush 2 cabinet.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #194,903
2/16/05 1:21:02 AM
|
'Successful' - oh well, then -- what more need be said?
|
Post #194,910
2/16/05 2:21:37 AM
|
Interesting retort.
Perhaps she should just be happy being alive I suppose.
Who needs goals in >life< like education, self betterment...etc
Beep said successful...he must mean cash.
You need to find at least a second track for your mind to operate on once in a while.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #194,916
2/16/05 3:49:09 AM
|
Re: Interesting spin on 'Success'; dictionary says <obs>
One would imagine from that, that any idea of $$$$$ :-0
would be a gross misrepresentation of the Normal Murican FIRST-association with that word.
Of course you are right: the 'Success' of a B Gates, a D Trump, a Chain-saw wozzisname? -- are all about the Examples set. Leadership, Moral Suasion, Love-of-God and just all-round Good Citizenship, not to mention their Social Stewardship and overall role in elevating the general quality of Liff for All Muricans.
I am forced to concede that, whereas our ex-AG was rescued from the ignominy of being defeated by a Dead Man -in his Last position over which anyone had a vote- our new-SS never was defeated by a Dead Woman.
I sense that, in this there is Progress (is that a bit like Success?)
Perhaps we can dissect compassionate during some other lull..
(The new Millennial dictionary will need lots of corrected definitions, I foresee.)
I note too a lot of ads, on PBS too - are now using the very-same phrase, even though it was rendered ludicrous upon its first recent use by The Beast,
We Are Passionate About [Accounting! .. is the most hilarious recent one.]
Yours most faithfully in Success's service,
moi,
A Miserable Failure..
in the acquisition of Paid Congresscritters Doing My Bidding for the benefit of Gawd and Country - and certainly NOT for the $$$$$
|
Post #194,971
2/16/05 12:07:11 PM
|
Do you ever get out of your house?
I do have a lot of compassion for you when you do - walking around, looking at people passing by, being sure that they are "Normal Murican"s. You really must feel like you're in an inverted zoo all the time.
--
- I was involuntarily self-promoted into management.
[link|http://kerneltrap.org/node/4484|Richard Stallman]
|
Post #195,009
2/16/05 2:13:37 PM
|
Interesting.
Cause all the "American" dictionaries list the $$$ after "accomplishing the desired outcome/achieving an established goal". Minor point,I suppose, that you seem to continue to miss with your lovely examples.
If your goal was progress...well then you were successful, weren't you?
Feel free to dissect any word you like. It helps, though, to start with the more common meanings.
Which is better...compassion or empathy? I feel your pain.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,054
2/16/05 7:31:21 PM
|
Really.. Beep
We are all humongously aware of the many connotations of this all-purpose umbrella-word.
(But you're trying to assert with-straight-face that, within this culture - so hooked on the daily $$ doings as to be Obsessive - it's the Goodier ones that come first! in the jelloware. Oh. Really.)
Maybe we should just elide words like success, for the same reasons that we now think twice about using the word innovation. We can add them to the growing list of once useful symbols, forever corrupted by Advertainment and Newspeak, whereby a war-on-lies morphs into daily lies-on-war.
Then there's gay .. and finally, forever in the land of the Laughable: compassionate conservative (in that case, each separately.. I mean, when your symbols are a group who used to be Trotskyites, and when 'conservation' has come to mean profligate debt and reversal of all fortune..)
But let us never surrender, emasculate the most descriptive word, that which is the blueprint for corrupting all the other ones: hypocrisy. That one's worth going to the barricades for!
As to Lovely Rita, Metermaid Successful Condi .. how's that classic Soth'n praise-with-faint-Damn go?
etc. etc. ... but, Gawd love [___], the little dear(s).
(Right up there with, Hey, It's All Good!)
cha
|
Post #195,056
2/16/05 7:51:41 PM
|
Sure.
American culture has so destroyed all things human that we might as well just blow ourselves up now.
Oh wait...thats someone else's mo.
And for someone who chastises the conservative...you sure seem to pine quite a bit for the days where these things weren't so "spoiled".
Oh well.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,087
2/16/05 11:44:41 PM
|
Hardly a matter of 'the days when'
It's a matter of 'attitude towards' the value nay Necessity of uncorrupted language, especially re such Idiotically false dichotomies as, Liberal/Conservative Left/Right and the rest of the dumbspeak which forever keeps Murican 'politics' paralyzed in Romper Room.
(Perhaps it's unMurican to harp on the absurdity that IS Murican politico-speak. Very well, then.)
And in (apparently your-) lexicon, I Am Conservative of Such Valuez; it is the (successful Rovian-) myth seized by the current crop of mind-fucking Trotskyites, that... Valuez belong only to the Troglodytes.
So many straw-men; so few butane lighters.
WDYHASM
|
Post #195,111
2/17/05 7:01:06 AM
2/17/05 7:01:31 AM
|
YOU are the one that claimed this is a current condition,
Ash.
The fact of the matter is that the meaning of success is NOT $$$. I don't think of it that way. I doubt I'm alone.
Of course, that may be how YOU define it, along with those you so bitterly criticize.
See? You have something in common with your foes! You are building bridges!
Really, Ash - once again, you seem to be comfortable with abetting 'language murder' when it's convenient to your own point.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
Edited by imric
Feb. 17, 2005, 07:01:31 AM EST
|
Post #195,124
2/17/05 9:24:21 AM
|
You are not alone in your definition.
But you are hardly of the majority. At least in this kuntry.
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
|
Post #195,127
2/17/05 9:25:46 AM
|
I doubt that.
This group is hardly cut from a cross-section, my friend.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,121
2/17/05 9:17:48 AM
|
Re: Hardly a matter of 'the days when'
WDYHASM Must have been a sig or a statement. Should have been WDIHASM when included in your post. At that point it simply is out of place and should be listed at the beginning of your post...because the remainder of the post is a fine example of "let me count the ways". If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,192
2/17/05 2:27:15 PM
|
Hey...If pining for a time when...
...the Fascist were foreign instead of domestic, I happily license you to use the term "Reactionary" to describe me any time.
And I guess your tacit (and often less-than-tacit) support for Duh's "budget management" makes you a "Liberal", by your own definition of the word.
Fits right in with Ashton's language murder theme, don't it?
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #195,037
2/16/05 5:11:19 PM
|
Successful != Effective
Example: Windows.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #195,055
2/16/05 7:47:42 PM
|
Possibly not
Doesn't change the fact that she's achieved alot for herself in her lifetime. Doesn't change the fact that she is just as or more qualified than quite a few of our state chairs. That might be a statement on just how bad our diplomats are.
As I said, she's had the misfortune of acheiving this under GWBush...which strikes her out for the 49% who are still sweating florida 5 years ago.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,098
2/17/05 1:16:09 AM
|
That and the out and out lies
or "errors" if you like. The fact remains that she wasn't a very good NSA.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #195,122
2/17/05 9:23:33 AM
|
Those aren't lies to Beep, she simply "mis-spoke".
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
|
Post #195,125
2/17/05 9:24:51 AM
|
She's in politics.
You want absolutes, stick to math.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,181
2/17/05 1:43:27 PM
|
What's fuzzy about
1) [the aluminum tubes] "Are only really suited for nuclear weapons programs, centrifuge programs." --Sept. 8, 2002
2) "We have found, in Iraq, biological weapons laboratories that look precisely like what Secretary Powell described in his February 5th report to the United Nations." --May 28, 2003
3)[the phony uranium purchase documents]"Maybe someone knew down in the bowels of the agency, but no one in our circles knew that there were doubts and suspicions that this might be a forgery." --June, 2003
4)"I don't think anybody could have predicted that these same people [9/11 hijackers]... would try to use a hijacked airplane as a missile." --May 2002
5) [Aug. 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Brief, "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S."] "It did not warn of attacks inside the United States."
Lies are lies. You can shrug it off as politics if you want to. I see something more dangerous here. These are not your garden variety politicians. These people are fucking dangerous and really belong in jail.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #195,349
2/18/05 8:14:30 AM
|
Can I have an "Amen" from the crowd?
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
|
Post #195,353
2/18/05 8:29:07 AM
|
Amen!
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #195,357
2/18/05 9:16:35 AM
|
Hosanna
-----------------------------------------
"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."
-- H. L. Mencken
|
Post #195,370
2/18/05 11:01:52 AM
|
Hallelujah!
|
Post #195,392
2/18/05 12:54:57 PM
|
Doo-wah Diddy!...errrr...Amen!
(Sorry, wrong radio station....)
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #195,388
2/18/05 12:31:30 PM
|
Fine.
Lock them up and replace them with the folks that ignored it for a decade.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #195,397
2/18/05 1:30:35 PM
|
Who would that be..
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #195,403
2/18/05 1:43:07 PM
|
Would be a huge improvement
not that Clinton totally ignored it. He did lob a few cruise missiles at ObL when the opportunity arose. However he was spending all his time addressing the Ken Starr witch hunt regarding inappropriate uses of cigars. Which I objected to at the time and continue to.
Prosecute him on your own time. The magnitude of the indiscretion was insignificant. Nobody even died.
I at least believe that, were the previous decade's people back on the job, we'd be getting actions that 1) don't fuck the country collectively in the ass and b) actually do try to make us all better off.
Saddest is I find myself longing for the days of the simply corrupt politicians that only seeked to line their own pockets rather than wage class warfare at the expense of us all.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #195,412
2/18/05 3:24:28 PM
|
You aren't alone.
Though what I find tragic is that Clinton was a MUCH better Republican than any Neocon.
The current crew is evil. Many of our leaders belong in prison; a goodly chunk of the rest belong in a madhouse. I could forgive incompetance. I could forgive stupidity. I cannot forgive the damage they are doing to the future of our nation, and the world. The constant lying of our leaders to our people CANNOT be forgiven - though for some reason, the people seem to find those lies more palatable if they are coated in a sauce of lipservice to religion and spiced with violence, death, and revenge.
God help us, every one.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #195,413
2/18/05 3:30:46 PM
|
It started with the Father of the Them All.
Ronald Reagan.
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
|
Post #195,415
2/18/05 3:34:05 PM
|
I think he actually believed
his own spiel.
I can't even accord the current administration (his degenerate political offspring) that much credit.
[link|http://forfree.sytes.net|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #195,417
2/18/05 4:22:57 PM
2/18/05 4:23:57 PM
|
True.
[Edit: Forgot the easy cheap shot]
Reagan did have Alzheimer's.
Dubya is perhaps the only person in the world that could make Reagan and Nixon look good.
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
Edited by mmoffitt
Feb. 18, 2005, 04:23:57 PM EST
|
Post #195,418
2/18/05 4:38:15 PM
|
And of course if RR had been forced to live by his policies
he'd have died drooling wrapped in a newspaper in a doorway.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #195,497
2/19/05 6:40:11 AM
|
Brevity Award - two ears and a tail.
To me the major absurdity is that these offenses utterly transcend our inane Left/Right, ""Conservative/Liberal"" mumbo jumbo, via which all Murican political speech is rendered pointless from the get-go.
That ~ Half of Muricans, in 2005 can be completely suckered by Rovian religio agit-prop, having utterly ignored ALL THOSE LIES in the war propaganda -- leaves no room at all for optimism.
Nukes. These unprincipled fuckers would use them in any 'crisis' - real, or their specialty: imagined.
|
Post #195,531
2/19/05 1:24:27 PM
|
Mahablog agrees with you there
[link|http://www.mahablog.com/2005.02.13_arch.html#1108774005268|http://www.mahablog....tml#1108774005268]
Fact is, right now most political discourse in America, both Right and Left, is\ufffdall about how awful those other people are. There's not much energy left for anything else.\ufffdThis is not a liberal problem. It's an American problem.
...
We cannot "debate" anything any more. Lies are put on the table to be accepted or rejected, and if you reject them you are marginalized and ridiculed for having too much "nuance." That's the extent of our "national debate."
-----
Pretty well sums up the problem right there.
"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein
"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
|
Post #195,254
2/17/05 6:23:52 PM
2/17/05 6:24:34 PM
|
Watch my left hand while my right hand...
...jerks you off. OK, BeeP, exactly what did Condi "achieve" while "working" for Duh? So far, you list of "achievements" have been strictly academic, apparently occuring long before she could spell, "Can I kiss your ass, Mr. President?". Yet in your post, you bemoan: As I said, she's had the misfortune of acheiving this under GWBush... (And remember, you also said it earlier; no weaseling about, "No, I didn't actually say that...." So, tell me, BeeP, where's the achievement since Duh? Is that here name is a household word? Or that she has brown-nosed her way the 5th in line for the thronePresidency? Or that she ran a more qualified man (i.e. Colin Powell) out of office? Or is Todd actually right here? jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
Edited by jb4
Feb. 17, 2005, 06:24:34 PM EST
|
Post #195,040
2/16/05 5:33:10 PM
|
Rice is the one who claimed...
No al Qaeda plan was turned over to the new administration. Clarke's memo proves that lie. Attached is the year-end 2000 strategy on al Qida.
|
