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New Re: Woulda, coulda, shoulda.
I say that MS will get off essentially scot-free if Bush wins control of the AG.

That would imply that you expect that Microsoft would NOT do so, under other Executives.

Otherwise, Bush being in office is irrelevant.

Its that simple.

The converse is "If Bush doesn't win control, then Microsoft won't get off scot-free". That's the counter to your prediction. Its not the case. (at least, not shown so far). Bush wasn't the deciding factor - so predicting based on that predication is mistaken.

Not all the world works like "If'n yer ain't fer us, yer agin' us!".

Nope, it doesn't. However, in making such a prediction, namely, that ONE circumstance will lead to a situation, by defintion means you've excluded the other. I can predict that the Panthers and the Jaguars (US football teams) will be in the Super Bowl. By defintion, that means that *nobody else will*. (there being only 2 teams who can).

If you said "DoJ will let them off scot-free", sure,. But you qualified that AND placed a restriction on it - *IF BUSH WON*. Now you're saying that doesn't mean that if BUSH LOST the opposite would occur. Technically possible, but why then would you specify BUSH as the problem?

As to your dismissal of the the circumstance that Scott points out (that the DoJ had already won, that they couldn't lose the case anymore), well, I think that you'll see that it heavily influences my opinion.

I pointed out a settlement to you - after the findings of fact, after which meant the DoJ had won, that Microsoft was declared a monopoly, where the DoJ was willing to VACATE those findings of fact, in essance, GIVE UP. It *was* before the appeals court. But it *wasn't* under Bush, which, let me remind you, IS THE CONDITONAL FOR YOUR PREDICITION.

Say there are two muggers and a drunk in a park, and one of the two muggers rolls the drunk. Would you, COULD you defend the offending mugger with "You can't blame the guy, if he didn't do it the other one would have - because of that likelyhood, no blame can be placed? Sorry - I don't buy THAT for a second.

Didn't say that. I didn't say the settlement was good, or that it was smart - that's what your analogy would have me do. Its excreble, and undefendable.

What you said is "If Bush is elected, one of those muggers will roll the drunk". Bush's election, while he could have stopped it, and in my opinion SHOULD have, doesn't seem to have changed the entire DoJ stance. Something you're blaming him for (implying that there's a difference between his DoJ and Clinton's, and what would ahve been under Gore).

I'm not *defending* this settlement. The DoJ *should* be ashamed. I'm glad the states balk, and I hope they get to take Microsoft apart in the courtroom.

Bush's boys screwed up. *BUT* no more than Clinton's boys screwed up, or that I know that Gore's boys would have. The *only* President who would have made a difference would have been Nader.

And if THAT'S who you were contrasting with Bush in your prediction, OK, sure, you're right.

Addison
New Minor logic problem....

If you said "DoJ will let them off scot-free", sure,. But you qualified that AND placed a restriction on it - *IF BUSH WON*. Now you're saying that doesn't mean that if BUSH LOST the opposite would occur.


A -> B != B -> A


New Contrast?
in making such a prediction, namely, that ONE circumstance will lead to a situation, by defintion means you've excluded the other. I can predict that the Panthers and the Jaguars (US football teams) will be in the Super Bowl. By defintion, that means that *nobody else will*. (there being only 2 teams who can).


So, if I know two bartenders looking for a job at the same pub (We'll call them George and Al) and I predict that George will buy me a beer if he gets the job, that means that I've said that Al wouldn't?

Nope. All I've said is that George *will*. I have not excluded Al from buying me a beer. I might have no trouble believing that Al would buy me a beer as well. If I believe it to be almost certain for one, but only highly likely for the other, am I to be constrained to say that, explicitly? Under what other circumstances am I to be constrained to pay lip service to all possibilities when mentioning one?

if BUSH LOST the opposite would occur. Technically possible, but why then would you specify BUSH as the problem?

Why? Why opposite? That still sounds like "if'n yer ain't fer us..."! And "BUSH as the problem"? Why must there be one problem?

My prediction wasn't unreasonable, heck, it doesn't 'blame' Bush for anything but being true to his economic principles.

Bush's boys screwed up. *BUT* no more than Clinton's boys screwed up, or that I know that Gore's boys would have.


Oh, you know that, do you? You predict that, had Gore won, he would have screwed up? By your lights, doesn't that mean that you knew that Bush's boys wouldn't?

*chuckle*

I believe there is a causal link between what's happening now and Bush's election.

That doesn't preclude my belief that similar effacts might be produced via other events and influences.

Gee - would you be able to understand my prediction better if I reworded it for you? How about "If Bush is elected, anti-trust will not be persued rigorously". Or do you think that that means that I am saying it was persued rigorously BEFORE the election?
It doesn't, you know.



Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
New <Evil Grin>
<chuckle>


Bush's boys screwed up. *BUT* no more than Clinton's boys screwed up [...]

Actually, at least in this case, Clinton's boys didn't screw up, did they? They got the judgement and won the case. This one is entirely Bush throwing away a win.

I suspect this is what's REALLY bothering Addison... Clinton did better than Bush. Worse, Janet Reno did better than John Ashcroft.
New It is a Cruel World.
New Bingo!
I suspect this is what's REALLY bothering Addison... Clinton did better than Bush. Worse, Janet Reno did better than John Ashcroft.


I suspect you're right, and a very cogent observation.

Minor nit, tho. Wasn't Reno driving the bus when that embarrasment to all past, present and future New Mexicans, Ann Bingamon, wrought that original, failed, so-called "consent decree" that finally made DoJ get of the dime and bust those suckers? If so, your observation is still valid-- Reno: 1 for 2 (.500), Ashhole: 0 for 1 (.000).
jb4
(Resistance is not futile...)
New I really don't know...

nit, tho. Wasn't Reno driving the bus when that embarrasment to all past, present and future New Mexicans, Ann Bingamon, wrought that original, failed, so-called "consent decree" that finally made DoJ get of the dime and bust those suckers? If so, your observation is still valid-- Reno: 1 for 2 (.500), Ashhole: 0 for 1 (.000).


The an interesting idea. I'm going to look that one up, for I really don't know.
     To the conservative element here - (Silverlock) - (99)
         Listen for the silence. - (Brandioch) - (1)
             chirp, chirp................ chirp, chirp............. -NT - (n3jja)
         He also would not answer any "technical" questions. -NT - (a6l6e6x)
         Once again, the UK explains our government, incest, and M$: - (Ashton)
         Errfff - (wharris2) - (1)
             Ahem, some of us did. -NT -NT - (Simon_Jester)
         Huh? - (bepatient) - (73)
             Seconded - (wharris2)
             "completely unforseen events" - (Brandioch) - (70)
                 Don't think so... - (bepatient) - (68)
                     Sooner? - (Brandioch) - (59)
                         Before the election, even. - (addison) - (58)
                             Re: Before the election, even. - (bepatient)
                             I can. - (jb4) - (1)
                                 No, you can't. - (addison)
                             Refresh my memory. - (Brandioch) - (54)
                                 Yep. - (addison) - (53)
                                     Some refreshment. - (addison) - (52)
                                         Are we using different definitions? - (Brandioch) - (51)
                                             I have no idea what you're using. - (addison) - (50)
                                                 Whatever. - (Brandioch) - (48)
                                                     Re: Whatever. - (addison) - (47)
                                                         Again, whatever. - (Brandioch) - (46)
                                                             Earth to Brandioch...... - (addison) - (45)
                                                                 Again, whatever. - (Brandioch) - (44)
                                                                     Hrm. - (addison) - (43)
                                                                         Of course its his fault... - (bepatient) - (42)
                                                                             Well... - (imric) - (41)
                                                                                 Re: Well... - (addison) - (29)
                                                                                     So - why are the States now 'ignorable'? You didn't answer. - (imric) - (28)
                                                                                         Yes, I did.. and if you want to count tally sheets, - (addison) - (27)
                                                                                             Tally sheets? Bush has no control over the AG? - (imric) - (26)
                                                                                                 Have you been sleepposting? - (addison) - (25)
                                                                                                     Zzxzzzzzz.... - (imric) - (9)
                                                                                                         Re: Zzxzzzzzz.... - (addison) - (8)
                                                                                                             Woulda, coulda, shoulda. - (imric) - (7)
                                                                                                                 Re: Woulda, coulda, shoulda. - (addison) - (6)
                                                                                                                     Minor logic problem.... - (Simon_Jester)
                                                                                                                     Contrast? - (imric) - (4)
                                                                                                                         <Evil Grin> - (Simon_Jester) - (3)
                                                                                                                             It is a Cruel World. -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                                                             Bingo! - (jb4) - (1)
                                                                                                                                 I really don't know... - (Simon_Jester)
                                                                                                     The big difference.... - (admin) - (14)
                                                                                                         That's true, but... - (addison) - (13)
                                                                                                             I think you just like to argue. - (admin) - (12)
                                                                                                                 Yeah, ban him for being so insensitively diruptive! - (CRConrad)
                                                                                                                 Its possible.. - (addison) - (10)
                                                                                                                     Re: Its possible.. - (admin) - (5)
                                                                                                                         Er. No. - (addison) - (4)
                                                                                                                             Re: Er. No. - (admin) - (3)
                                                                                                                                 Really? - (addison) - (2)
                                                                                                                                     Re: Really? - (admin) - (1)
                                                                                                                                         Oi. - (pwhysall)
                                                                                                                     There may be one huge difference between then and now.... - (Simon_Jester) - (3)
                                                                                                                         If that's true, - (addison) - (2)
                                                                                                                             But we do know... - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                                                                                                                                 More quotes. - (Another Scott)
                                                                                 *SNORT* - (Silverlock)
                                                                                 Brett Glass predictions. - (bepatient) - (5)
                                                                                     ROFL - (imric) - (4)
                                                                                         Re: ROFL - (addison) - (3)
                                                                                             Bigotry? - (imric) - (2)
                                                                                                 Bigotry. - (addison)
                                                                                                 umm err - (boxley)
                                                                                 They aren't - (Steve Lowe) - (3)
                                                                                     One other scenario. - (Brandioch)
                                                                                     Oh, I really do live by my 'Tips for Living'. - (imric) - (1)
                                                                                         In that case - (Steve Lowe)
                                                 Say WHAT? - (jb4)
                     How is the market going to do "what it's supposed to do"... - (jb4) - (7)
                         Umm... - (bepatient) - (6)
                             OK, fine... - (jb4) - (5)
                                 Nope, not fine. - (addison) - (4)
                                     Glad... - (bepatient)
                                     Not not fine - (jb4) - (2)
                                         Not^3 fine - (addison) - (1)
                                             I am so glad that you have explained that the Marketing - (Ashton)
                 Evil Parody... - (Simon_Jester)
             I never even said that much in his defense. - (marlowe)
         Re: To the conservative element here - (Squidley) - (6)
             What a charming idea.. I do hope someone has expressed it - (Ashton) - (5)
                 Why, thank you! - (Squidley) - (2)
                     Wag-Ed - (wharris2)
                     cuba libras launched from both nostrils ROFL!! - (boxley)
                 How progressive! - (marlowe) - (1)
                     Re: How progressive! - (jb4)
         why do you think gore's choice would be any different? - (boxley) - (10)
             Shit, bill, that's easy - (jb4) - (9)
                 didnt read the post :) -NT - (boxley) - (8)
                     Read it...doesn't matter - (jb4) - (7)
                         microsoft was targeted because they wouldnt make payoffs - (boxley) - (6)
                             Possible. - (Brandioch) - (3)
                                 I wouldn't call it extremely well... - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                                     Should have qualified that a bit. - (Brandioch) - (1)
                                         Agreed on both counts. :) -NT - (inthane-chan)
                             Re: microsoft was targeted because they wouldnt make payoffs - (jb4) - (1)
                                 Yes Ashole is aptly named and sh*t fer brains - (boxley)
         Ashhole: Minister of Doublespeak - (jb4)

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