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New Re: DRL, further analysis needed on your part (a tad long)
Sorry I have to be short here, but this topic will be going on for some time so we'll get to it later.

Fundamental principle - masculine and feminine are opposed principles, like subject and object, light and dark, etc. Thus, a strict rule by tyrannical men may in fact be extremely feminine in nature. The worlds of Orwell's 1984 or Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 are extremely feminine societies, in which every aspect of life is done for (so-called) protection of the status quo, and all outward exploration has ended.

The radical right is essentially feminine in nature - all collectives are feminine. A strictly masculine society would be something like the Mongols.

Thus your conditions:
1). to insure the continuence of institutionalized patriarchy
2). to keep power, money, and influence in the hands of a few males

are coming from a false premise - in fact these are ultra-negative manifestations of a disinherited masculinity. The radical feminist reaction is an ultra-negative manifestation of a disinherited femininity. The root problem is that everyone is operating in a skewed social environment in which forced collectives have displaced mutual cooperation - in abstract terms, the Actual Masculine has been individually disinherited by men, and so is projected on the collective as a false macho and bravado. The result of this projection is that the collective actually behaves as a rampant unconscious negatively expressed feminine, what I call the Unrestricted Feminine. Our society is as far from patriarchic as could be imagined - indeed there are no remaining patriarchic societies of any size, and certainly not in the Western world. A good example of an actual patriarchic society would be the Plains Indian horse cultures. To show how crazily inverted it is, the Germans actually call their unconscious negative feminine the "Fatherland" - at least the Russians, the French and the Americans are sane enough to have Mother Russia and Miss Liberty as icons.

I wish I could go on more now but I'll get to your other points. I wanted to establish the basis of my point and mind you I am stilll working it out. The main result will be an attempt to replace deterministic social thought by complementarity, in accordance with how the world really works.
-drl
New You're making it more complicated than it is really....
....from the dictionary (and notice the date):

Main Entry: pa\ufffdtri\ufffdar\ufffdchy
Pronunciation: -"\ufffdr-kE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -chies
Date: 1632
1 : social organization marked by the supremacy of the father in the clan or family, the legal dependence of wives and children, and the reckoning of descent and inheritance in the male line; broadly : control by men of a disproportionately large share of power
2 : a society or institution organized according to the principles or practices of patriarchy


Tell me the definitions above aren't tightly tied to the principles spouted by those who want to push "family values". No false premises here; only a strong knowledge of reality and the will to want to improve women's lives.

Regards,
Slugbug
New Re: You're making it more complicated than it is really....
No they aren't and until that is understood things will get worse. The basic problem is determinism, and you just supplied a perfect example.

But, since everyone seems to want me to drop this, I'll continue my investigations alone (what else is new?).
-drl
New Ross, you're talking out of your arse again.
Stick to the natural sciences; but please, PLEASE -- for your own credibility's sake, as much as anything -- STFU about the social ones!


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
You know you're doing good work when you get flamed by an idiot. -- [link|http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/35/34218.html|Andrew Wittbrodt]
New OK CRC. You got it.
-drl
     One Feminist's Scribing - (deSitter) - (41)
         I'd respond in detail - (ben_tilly) - (34)
             Re: I'd respond in detail - (deSitter) - (33)
                 Heh.. - (hnick) - (4)
                     Re: Heh.. - (deSitter)
                     Common problem - (JayMehaffey) - (2)
                         Re: Common problem - (deSitter) - (1)
                             Basic problem: Your "definition" is the (Repo-)Newspeak one. -NT - (CRConrad)
                 I'll have to get back to you... - (ben_tilly)
                 Um... - (slugbug) - (26)
                     Re: Um... - (deSitter) - (25)
                         Yeah, former monarchs have always had problems . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                         Do not blame the feminists - (orion) - (5)
                             Not bad, Norman - (Ashton) - (4)
                                 Speaking of Rosie... - (Nightowl) - (3)
                                     Found The link for it - (Nightowl) - (2)
                                         Good sleuthing, Owlet! - (Ashton) - (1)
                                             You're welcome. :) - (Nightowl)
                         Translation: - (ben_tilly) - (7)
                             Re: Translation: - (deSitter) - (6)
                                 I'm going to assume it's the pain and/or drugs - (hnick) - (4)
                                     Re: I'm going to assume it's the pain and/or drugs - (deSitter) - (3)
                                         And I suggest - (hnick) - (1)
                                             Re: And I suggest - (deSitter)
                                         Oh, it fell apart long ago. -NT - (Andrew Grygus)
                                 We aren't in a court - (ben_tilly)
                         DRL, reasonable response to your question.... - (slugbug) - (9)
                             Re: DRL, reasonable response to your question.... - (deSitter) - (8)
                                 Quotes of canonical American feminists - (deSitter) - (1)
                                     All those quotes . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                                 DRL, further analysis needed on your part (a tad long) - (slugbug) - (5)
                                     Re: DRL, further analysis needed on your part (a tad long) - (deSitter) - (4)
                                         You're making it more complicated than it is really.... - (slugbug) - (1)
                                             Re: You're making it more complicated than it is really.... - (deSitter)
                                         Ross, you're talking out of your arse again. - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                             OK CRC. You got it. -NT - (deSitter)
         Your insecurity is showing again. -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
             In what way? - (deSitter)
         You know what - (orion) - (3)
             Re: You know what - (deSitter) - (2)
                 Anf finally, 5: I notice you didn't answer the question. -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                     Don't worry - (orion)

Many died, but in the end, the chickens won.
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