"Bernie had a good speech. That is all." Heh. You mean like Obama?

Post #419,107 by mmoffitt 7/22/17 5:02:54 PM 7/22/17 5:02:54 PM Reply	"Bernie had a good speech. That is all." Heh. You mean like Obama? I'll try not to keep harping on this, but its hard for me. If you keep attacking the 1/2 of the Democratic Party that voted for him, we're going to lose again. Bernie is not the enemy. Wall Street, Big Pharma, Big Insurance and their handmaidens in the Democratic Party are the enemy. Keep it up and we'll have four more years of Trump - or worse, Pence. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #419,108 by Another Scott 7/22/17 5:14:49 PM 7/22/17 5:14:49 PM Reply	(shakes head slowly). TRUMP is the enemy. It's the Berniebros that won't let it go...
Post #419,111 by Ashton 7/22/17 5:40:34 PM 7/22/17 5:40:34 PM Reply	Myopia is a terrible thing not-to-lose.
Post #419,150 by mmoffitt 7/24/17 8:44:59 AM 7/24/17 8:44:59 AM Reply	You're heading down the very same road to defeat again. Can't you see that? 2. A majority thinks Democrats don't stand for anything other than being against Trump. Only 37% of Americans say the Democratic Party "stands for something," while 52% say it just stands against Trump, according to the same ABC News/Washington Post poll. It comes at a time when Democrats are left without a clear figurehead and many, both inside and outside of the party, have criticized its leaders for lack of a clear message. http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/22/politics/five-poll-numbers-democrats-uneasy/index.html No message, no votes. People don't vote against anything. They vote for something. Okay, maybe not you and Rand, but do you really want future elections to turn out like 2016's? If you do, then by all means, ignore me again. If not, you should consider changing tactics. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #419,153 by Another Scott 7/24/17 11:12:42 AM 7/24/17 11:12:42 AM Reply	TRUMP is the enemy...
Post #419,154 by mmoffitt 7/24/17 11:46:51 AM 7/24/17 11:46:51 AM Reply	And we can't beat him by simply "not being him." bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #419,155 by Another Scott 7/24/17 12:58:35 PM 7/24/17 12:58:35 PM Reply	You continue to beat up on people who aren't in office and aren't running for office...
Post #419,160 by Ashton 7/24/17 6:43:34 PM 7/24/17 6:43:34 PM Reply	Cannot parse this, nor comprehend the allusions/metaphors which supply no clarity. (often, of late.) Seems we’re at … [Perceived-by each!] “Basic” loggerheads where: {Spy -vs- Spy? cf. MAD mag/many issues} “Posited Aims to Cure Murica” (say,) diverge ^{^}_v amongst the Lot-of-Us. [Let us Not-recreate the massive-exchanges re “Snowden”] and our quite varied attitudes re. each’s-In-duh-vid-ual attitude towards (say?) any Idea of worshipping! some dreamlike version of The dis-U.S.Constitution … ‘K? [cf. the lengthy Snowden thread here, in June ’16 + CRC’s re-Visitation in 6/’17. If needed.] Because: those exchanges indicate what various here Really Think about living in the dis-US AS IT IS NOW. In the algebra of “making any plan”, there seems an unarguable progression: [PLAN] … refer-to-one; Make one; OK: set out minimal ingredients for creating same [STRATEGY] How (best) implement PLAN? (in present ZEITGEIST == implicit.) [TACTICS] Nuts & bolts of strategy: from Obvious -to- Arcane.. etc. Anybody gots an actual PLAN? for A) Speediest retirement of the entire Drumpf + Billionaire Boys’ Club perps S.A.P. B) Restoring some gumption to the Controlling-$rich-D.N.C. so as to create an environment for: The Next Demo candidate(s) having learned the Lessons of the Hillary-clusterfuck, now solidly-in Everyone’s hippocampus, for Good (or Evul?) That’s all I want; easy-peasy, huh? ;^>
Post #419,161 by boxley 7/24/17 7:00:03 PM 7/24/17 7:00:03 PM Reply	short and to the point "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,164 by Another Scott 7/24/17 10:20:09 PM 7/24/17 10:20:09 PM Reply	Ok, I admit that many of my comments in this thread might seem to be non-sequiturs. I didn't read The Intercept piece. Or the Times piece that Alex pointed us to. There are too few hours in the day for me to do more than skim much of the news. And I don't regard The Intercept as an honest broker, myself. But the whole thought process behind the articles, as present here, doesn't make much sense to me. And I jumped in the middle to make that opinion known. People don't vote for ideas. They vote for candidates. All the "Democrats don't stand for anything" polling and so forth doesn't mean anything. It's lazy reporting. Hillary stood for all kinds of things, and lots of very good things. The press didn't report those things, and too many voters couldn't be bothered to read her positions for themselves. Yes, Atrios is right that it's never a winning strategy to blame the voters. But counter-factuals aren't reality either. Sure, Hillary should have done some things differently, but the idea that she and the Democratic Party don't stand for anything is nonsense. In the meantime, while non-Democrats go on and on about how Democrats need to change, Trump and his minions continue to try to destroy everything. Sorry if I seem a little testy about this stuff, but I am. There's still too much talk about how horrible Hillary and the DNC are. Yet those critics seem to have little or nothing to say about things like the Senate vote tomorrow that will (if the Trumpers and Teabaggers succeed) directly make the lives of tens of millions of people much worse, and kill tens of thousands. I'm doing my part to keep that from happening. I'm writing letters, I'm donating to people and organizations that are fighting in the trenches, I'm marching in the streets. And I'm trying to wake certain civil aviation people up to the dangers. ;-) If you (generic you) want to get my attention, tell me specifically what you want to do and why. Tell me what candidates support your position and how voting for them will make things better (I have no time for purity candidates who don't understand how politics actually works). Telling me how horrible our side is while offering nothing concrete to make it better and (nearly) completely ignoring the bad things that the GOP is doing right now is not a way to get me to take you (generic you) seriously. What are these critics in the press doing except telling everyone else that they're doing it wrong? People who won the Presidency twice (WJC and BHO) and who were elected twice to the Senate and served with great ability as SoS (HRC). People who know more than a little about politics in the USA - in fact, they know a lot. Why do so many of these "Democrats are doing it wrong" stories neglect to note the impact of voter suppression activities by the Teabaggers? Etc., etc. You know my litany. Anyway, I'll try to take the time to be more, er, sequitur. ;-) By the by, I did see this McClatchyDC piece this evening: BALTIMORE African American activists have a message for Democrats: If you want to win back the White House, strongly consider a black person on the ticket. On their list are a growing roster of black politicians, notably Sens. Cory Booker, D-N.J. and Kamala Harris, D-Calif., former Attorney General Eric Holder and Deval Patrick, former governor of Massachusetts. Turnout among African Americans in the 2016 presidential election was the smallest in 20 years. It’s a big concern as the NAACP holds its annual convention this week in Baltimore, its first major gathering since the election. Hilary Shelton, head of the NAACP’s Washington bureau, said “It could be difficult” for Democrats in the future without an African American on the ticket. But he added that the black community is “very sophisticated” politically, and having an African American is not essential if white candidates “are speaking our language, which means that they’re addressing our concerns, they’re going to get our support.” [...] (Emphasis added.) If that is true, then it's important to understand why. Was it apathy, or was it ever more blatant voter suppression? Or a combination? Or something else? It's that kind of stuff that (it seems to me) is vitally important to know. Not whether white working-class voters in West Virginia think that Hillary is History's Greatest Monster or only the World's Greatest Monster Since 1945... :-/ My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #419,171 by Ashton 7/25/17 6:14:44 AM 7/25/17 6:24:50 AM Reply	Well, when you put it that way.. I must agree that criticism of Hillary’s M.O. in campaigning (since No ONE ever knows-FERSHURE what will be most effective in-the-moment) does, verily distract attention from the sum-total of the Repo tool-box: that perpetual war on voting rights, the penchant for Gerrymandering so blatantly that any map demonstrates exactly-why it IS bogus, then throw in the “security” McGuffin: loaded against any creature not-albino. As you say, a meeja perpetually driven by scandal-reporting, far simpler than efforts to unearth truthiness … plays plainly to our epidemic national-fecklessness. All-in-all, the whole production was a verification of one Sage’s primary-observation that, Mankind lacks Scale and Relativity (and he didn’t mean E=mc².) And feckless IS what [generic-] you are, ever to miss the real intent of the Tax-windfall-scam, nothing to do with health-at-all, the message is: “Fuck You, poor-people!/we think you are all scum and we want even more of your pittance to roll-in to our existing loot”. Anyone still unclear on this concept … will in-fact be “voting” against survival of the dis-US, of the planet and of many more species than merely homo-SAP. If such insouciance Wins in a second try for national adulthood? it’s impossible (for you or anyone) to exaggerate the massive consequences of the current Clown Car being left to run-down any humans in its wake/with IMPUNITY. How long have we got before these daily-threats: produce irreversible tragedy? … no metrics for such; meanwhile visceral disgust can't fathom just how easily manipulated is homo-SAP, so as to precipitate destruction of our sole nest. (For something called $$$, yet. Proof of worldwide mental pandemic?) Would that Piet Hein had produced a Grook capable of …penetrating even the diseased-mind. ’Muricans’ are about to become the World’s first perps of Species-cide, unless deflected. While sleep-walking, we ARE such JERKS as defy words. . . . . . . . . . 'Course if ENOUGH of us Die-Off quickly enough, the petro-toxins can't be released into the atmosphere. Cats, many other species might survive. I can live with that aka FUCK YOU! mindless meat-robots. PS: while awaiting that unscheduled planetary hygienic-cleansing: EAT the RICH (I used to know name of alleged author/connoisseur of comestibles) Edited by Ashton July 25, 2017, 06:24:50 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #419,172 by mmoffitt 7/25/17 8:05:15 AM 7/25/17 8:05:15 AM Reply	That's NOT what I'm doing. I don't want a repeat of 2016. Trump's holding at 39% approval has demonstrated to me clearly that 39% of us are beyond hope. That means that the candidates that those 39% support must not be allowed another victory. That means we need people running on something more than, "Well, at least I'm not Trump. Yeah, we largely serve the same corporate interests, but I do it less emphatically and with a friendlier face." That's what killed us over the past 35+ years and why an old Socialist goat's message resonated with so many in the Democratic Party. There's lots of ways to get Progressive causes embraced by virtually everyone, albeit not as rapidly as I would like (I understand the need to compromise iow). But if I learned anything from 2016, it's that we, as a people are too spineless to actually revolt and 39% of us are too ignorant and incapable of learning to see a need to revolt - ever. Revolution cannot happen here because Americans, as a whole, do not deserve a truly liberating revolution. So, be happy. I've become a person who understands that incremental change is all that's possible with this lot. But, it must be incremental change for the better, not worse and I say the Neo-Democrats have made things worse, not better. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #419,181 by Another Scott 7/25/17 12:35:08 PM 7/25/17 12:35:08 PM Reply	Ok. That means we need people running on something more than ... Emphasis added. If Lefty McLeftish isn't running, then it doesn't help to beat up on the party. If Lefty McLeftish loses the primary, then it doesn't help to beat up on the party. It's a huge sacrifice to put one's self our there to be an elected office candidate for the first time. Maybe too few Leftys are willing to make the jump because they think they don't have a chance. Like it or not, our system has parties and those parties (when they have the majority) decide the leadership in the respective various legislatures. And the leadership decides committee assignments, the rules of debate, what gets considered and what doesn't, etc. A President also has to work with parties to get things done, and to fight what they don't want to become law and policy. If Lefty McLeftish isn't there, then it only makes sense to support the candidate of the better party. "I told you so" (in so many words) isn't helpful. My $0.02. So, who are you supporting for Congress in '018? ;-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #419,182 by mmoffitt 7/25/17 1:36:11 PM 7/25/17 1:36:11 PM Reply	The House? In Indiana? We don't have a Democratic Party in Indiana. Recall the 2016 House election featured this guy as the Democratic candidate. Just look at the vote totals for both parties. (BTW, I did vote for Tommy, drunkard that he is). Most Hoosiers get their news from Fox and Rush Limbaugh and they like it that way. They've never been anywhere (it was up in 2016 to just shy of 3.4% of us having passports, but in the three previous years only 2.8%, 2.6% and 2.5% had passports). The majority of them are among the most racist, xenophobic, ignorant (but I repeat myself) entities you'll ever encounter. They don't want to hear anything anyone else has to say and believe this is the best place in the world to live and don't you dare try telling them otherwise. I routinely leave 70% of my ballot blank and it's not because no one is Left enough to suit my tastes (one advantage of flight training is that situational awareness is emphasized - so I'm not looking for any Lefty to ever appear on an Indiana ballot), but because in roughly 70% of cases the Republican candidate is running unopposed. Intellectually, politically, culturally and philosophically this is a hellish, hellish place. There is nothing, I mean absolutely nothing, that this state has to offer that could possibly lure any significant number of sentient beings here. That's why our universities routinely see 60% of their graduates leaving the state never to return within a year of graduation. I began saying this around 1990, but there are only three types of people who live in Indiana: 1. People who were born here. 2. People who are married to people who were born here. 3. The completely incompetent. There are probably a dozen or so outliers in our population of 6.6 million who do not fall into one of those three categories, but I've only met one in the thirty-one years I've lived here. And he's originally from England, so he hardly counts. ;0) That, in a nutshell, is why "no Lefties" run for office here. We have met the people. We know who they are. We know they cannot be saved. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #419,184 by Ashton 7/25/17 3:14:43 PM 7/25/17 3:14:43 PM Reply	..and when I recall that, My Gramma™ wrote the Song! Indiana I'm Coming Home (or was it "we're" ??) ... such a triviality and sooo long ago.. Well, I just may be given a pass to say.. (that rarely Permissible presumption, we see) I Knoze Exactly whatchamean :-/ Y.P.B. !!
Post #419,194 by Another Scott 7/25/17 11:06:11 PM 7/25/17 11:06:11 PM Reply	Things don't change until they do...
Post #419,259 by Another Scott 7/27/17 6:36:18 PM 7/27/17 6:36:18 PM Reply	Someone needs your help. https://canonforindiana.com/ (via a comment at Balloon-Juice) Cheers, Scott.
Post #419,276 by mmoffitt 7/28/17 8:29:38 AM 7/28/17 8:29:38 AM Reply	I wish him well, but I doubt he has a chance. The Republican incumbent down there beat a woman who grew up in NE Indiana, teaches at IU Bloomington, was a former Miss Indiana and runner-up for Miss America who became anorexic, overcame it and worked to help other young women with it and who seemed to be a decent Democrat. She lost by double-digits to the knuckle dragger's pick. Sadly, I can't vote for him. I'm about as far away from that district as you can get. I'm in the third, he's in the ninth. I wish him well, but I have grave doubts about his chances. My previous comments notwithstanding, there are some very good people here. They're just vastly outnumbered. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #419,189 by boxley 7/25/17 6:40:53 PM 7/25/17 6:40:53 PM Reply	cmon now, the person you ran last go round engendered a clown car full of crazy repos (well maybe jeb and graham were not wearing the big shoes and red noses) and lost. I understand that it was her turn and 20 years of working to begat her presidency so I dont blame you personally for her running but Jaysus find someone as far from that gang as possible for the next turn. Who knows after trump for a few years run Cornel West with Booker T on the democratic ticket and get a win. I would vote for them. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,193 by Another Scott 7/25/17 11:04:09 PM 7/25/17 11:04:09 PM Reply	Move to strike as non-responsive. We know you don't like the Clintons and haven't for, what, the last 20-some-odd years? Who do you support, and do you think they could actually win? Why don't you talk them up rather than continuing to beat on Hillary? She's not running again you know... ;-p You know that Cornell has no chance. He's not a Democrat, either... Cheers, Scott.
Post #419,200 by mmoffitt 7/26/17 8:17:42 AM 7/26/17 8:17:42 AM Reply	Good $DEITY. Not the "not a Democrat!!!!111ONE!" thing again. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #419,201 by Another Scott 7/26/17 8:19:07 AM 7/26/17 8:19:07 AM Reply	Yes, it again. Why is it not an issue?
Post #419,204 by mmoffitt 7/26/17 8:31:07 AM 7/26/17 8:31:07 AM Reply	Because ... I am not a Federalist, because I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all. Thomas Jefferson
Post #419,206 by drook 7/26/17 8:59:09 AM 7/26/17 8:59:09 AM Reply	Things change On slaves: For, men, probably of any colour, but of this color we know, brought up from their infancy without necessity for thought or forecast, are by their habits rendered as incapable as children of taking care of themselves, and are extinguished promptly wherever industry is necessary for raising the young. in the mean time they are pests in society by their idleness, and the depredations to which this leads them. their amalgamation with the other colour produces a degradation to which no lover of his country, no lover of excellence in the human character can innocently consent. Thomas Jefferson -- Drew
Post #419,223 by Ashton 7/26/17 4:36:42 PM 7/26/17 4:36:42 PM Reply	Love. It. ... ... Just What these two quotes illustrate.. ..seems to moi to be ~~ All Generalizations are False [implicitly: including-This-one, er, cha. cha. cha.] Hint Language can Nevah be treated as a conveyor of simple-assed/simple-minded Boolean-fucking-Algebra!! (I wot..) ..have a Nice Drumpf-"Day" ;^>
Post #419,306 by boxley 7/28/17 10:57:44 PM 7/28/17 10:57:44 PM Reply	ROFL the rent a party winnahs from Arkansaw who hitched a ride to checks and glory are at the end of their run and you huff and puff that bernie was an outlier (which he was). So who is there in the democratic party that you could get behind? "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,309 by Another Scott 7/29/17 1:45:06 PM 7/29/17 1:45:06 PM Reply	(Almost) anyone who wins the primaries. I like Franken. I've heard lots of people like Kamala Harris but I know almost nothing about her. Gillibrand did good things during the various confirmation hearings and seems to know how to win fairly conservative voters in her state. Kaine is a good guy and can win over conservative voters, too, while pushing for fairly liberal policies. I have no idea how any of them would do in Iowa and New Hampshire and all the other small states that (unfortunately) seem to determine the "momentum" that determines the nominee. There are lots of good Democrats. (Almost) any of them would be preferable to any Republican I can think of. At the moment I'm more worried about the Virginia elections this fall, so I'm not paying a lot of attention to national races yet. Cheers, Scott.
Post #419,314 by boxley 7/29/17 5:51:26 PM 7/29/17 5:51:26 PM Reply	not Kaine, he needs a rubber red nose and fright wig to go with his personality "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,327 by mmoffitt 7/30/17 10:43:27 AM 7/30/17 10:43:27 AM Reply	Kaine can't win over Conservatives? Support for Right to Work wasn't enough? Yeah, he's a flaming Liberal all right. Seriously, Scott. I don't mind you supporting "democrats" like Kaine, but you owe it to yourself to just come out as a Republican if you're going to continue to do so. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #419,330 by Another Scott 7/30/17 12:25:51 PM 7/30/17 12:25:51 PM Reply	Re: Kaine can't win over Conservatives? Support for Right to Work wasn't enough? http://nhlabornews.com/2016/07/labor-reacts-to-selection-of-tim-kaine/ HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #419,296 by mmoffitt 7/28/17 2:51:30 PM 7/28/17 2:51:30 PM Reply	I thought of one for the top of the ticket. He won't run (or at least I don't think he'll run), but Eric Holder would make an excellent President. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #419,310 by Another Scott 7/29/17 1:45:46 PM 7/29/17 1:45:46 PM Reply	He did good things, but never having held elective office, well...
Post #419,319 by Ashton 7/29/17 6:42:25 PM 7/29/17 6:42:25 PM Reply	Insightful +5. That is: Absolutely EVERYONE has had-answered for selves the query ~~ Hey.. rilly, Can't just Anyone be Prez? ("after all, s/he can.. WILL! ... hire smarter Help, right?") The very definition of cha. cha. cha. clogging all the synapses (?) CCP [er, cubic-closest-packing] fine mimimalist-Take, I wot :-)
Post #419,320 by boxley 7/29/17 7:39:15 PM 7/29/17 7:39:15 PM Reply	maybe but he is unelectable selling machine guns to Mexico that were used to gun down Americans that headline would keep him out "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,159 by boxley 7/24/17 6:25:08 PM 7/24/17 6:25:08 PM Reply	how did that work for the repos during obama's second term run? "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman

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