Rightfully my ass!

The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances is an international treaty signed on 5 December 1994, providing security assurances by its signatories in connection to Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The Memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear-powers, the Russian Federation, the United States of America, and the United Kingdom. China and France later gave individual statements of assurance as well.

The deal included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine as well as those of Belarus and Kazakhstan. As a result Ukraine gave up the world's third largest nuclear weapons stockpile between 1994 and 1996.

Following the 2014 Crimean crisis, the US stated that Russian involvement is in breach of its obligations to Ukraine under the Budapest Memorandum, and in clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity.

My emphasis.

The Tatars support the revolution in Kiev. As far as I'm concerned the Tatars could go independent in Crimea. It's not a question of Ukrainian land grabs. Of course, the Tatars originally pushed out the Greeks way back when. It's no accident that so many city names end in "pol".

So would you be in favor of Mexico grabbing Southern California?

Post #387,138 by a6l6e6x 3/3/14 10:12:06 AM Reply	Rightfully my ass! Ask the Tatars who were the majority there until Stalin shipped them out to Asia. And they want to move back to Crimea! Also, using your logic, Russia can invade and claim a good part of Brooklyn (NYC). Besides, I was born in Crimea (not part of Ukraine at the time) and being Ukrainian at the time can claim it for Ukraine. :) Alex ÂThere is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.Â -- Isaac Asimov
Post #387,146 by boxley 3/3/14 11:09:56 AM Reply	So it was not part of the ukraine at the time of your birth it wasn't tatarstan either :-}so something magical happened that 3 centuries of russian ownership changed into western wah wah about Ukraine SOVEREIGNTY over Tartarstan. It didn't work out so well last time the west went to war in the Crimea, it was a win but one hell of a cost in lives. Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #387,148 by Andrew Grygus 3/3/14 11:24:22 AM Reply	One hell of a cost in lives . . . . . mainly due to British stupidity. After the Light Brigade, and other events, they changed the rules so commanding officers had to be trained in military schools. Before that, they just needed the correct social rank. Henry VIII watched his newest battleship, the Mary Rose, sink before his eyes due to similar stupidity of the nobility. He changed the rules for the Navy so the Chief Boatswain owned the ship and the crew. The officers could tell him where the ship was to go - but not how to get it there. Crimea was transfered to Ukraine by the Soviet Union - run by Russia - so it must have been with Russian approval. Of course, in those days, they called Ukraine "Little Russia".
Post #387,157 by a6l6e6x 3/3/14 12:07:39 PM Reply	Check your Wikipedia. The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances is an international treaty signed on 5 December 1994, providing security assurances by its signatories in connection to Ukraine's accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. The Memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear-powers, the Russian Federation, the United States of America, and the United Kingdom. China and France later gave individual statements of assurance as well. The deal included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine as well as those of Belarus and Kazakhstan. As a result Ukraine gave up the world's third largest nuclear weapons stockpile between 1994 and 1996. Following the 2014 Crimean crisis, the US stated that Russian involvement is in breach of its obligations to Ukraine under the Budapest Memorandum, and in clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity. My emphasis. The Tatars support the revolution in Kiev. As far as I'm concerned the Tatars could go independent in Crimea. It's not a question of Ukrainian land grabs. Of course, the Tatars originally pushed out the Greeks way back when. It's no accident that so many city names end in "pol". So would you be in favor of Mexico grabbing Southern California? Alex ÂThere is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.Â -- Isaac Asimov
Post #387,171 by boxley 3/3/14 8:42:28 PM Reply	I thought they already did? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #387,183 by static 3/4/14 5:01:50 AM Reply	What about Turkey? I read recently that there is an older treaty that means if Russia tries to occupy Crimea, it actually reverts to Turkey. Unfortunately, the Wikipedia article about said treaty is not an easy read. http://en.wikipedia....of_KÃ¼Ã§Ã¼k_Kaynarca Wade. Just Add Story http://justaddstory.wordpress.com/
Post #387,185 by a6l6e6x 3/4/14 9:10:33 AM Reply	You're right! Crimea and the Tatar inhabitants were a protectorate of the Ottoman empire. Alex ÂThere is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.Â -- Isaac Asimov
Post #387,191 by boxley 3/4/14 10:23:28 AM Reply	well that is why the Crimean war started inittially russians trying to protect slavs and orthodox christians was it not? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #387,196 by a6l6e6x 3/4/14 12:43:31 PM Reply	Russia was in an expansioinst mode. The Tatars hadn't quite figured out that agriculture thing made regular marauding raids deep into Ukraine and even Polish territories. They brought the grain, goods, young women and some boys back to Crimea. They exported slaves to Turkey. The Cossacks were established on the Dnieper River near the current city of Zaporizhia (and various other spellings) to keep them at bay. Kathrine II tried to push back the Ottoman empire all around the Black Sea, out of the Balkans, and even hoped to return Constantinople to Christian control. That didn't quite happen, but Crimea was invaded and captured in 1768. Alex ÂThere is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.Â -- Isaac Asimov
Post #387,206 by boxley 3/4/14 7:43:43 PM Reply	they needed a warm water port and cuba was too far back then Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 58 years. meep
Post #387,210 by Andrew Grygus 3/4/14 8:14:12 PM Reply	But hey, with global warming . . . . . they can have as many ports as they want - they don't even need Sevastopol.
Post #397,051 by CRConrad 12/12/14 8:05:04 AM Reply	When the heck isn't it...
Post #397,061 by boxley 12/12/14 12:54:06 PM Reply	when it is being invaded by the europeans or the turks Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 59 years. meep

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