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New no net neutrality please, cost too much
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Flip that around. We're paying too much for what we get now.
I've been paying $45 or more per month for Road Runner (Time Warner here) for ten years now. Do the math. Glass is cheap.

If they want to short-circuit some of the web to speed up their own "content" let them invest in their own long-distance fiber. Let them also charge extra those folks that want that content. I'm not interested in that content. Access to the infrastructure is one thing and paying for content is another. One should only pay for bandwidth. Does it make sense to you that phoning some people in your calling area should cost you more than calling others?

I'm just not interested in having a slow IWeThey because a cable company or telco isn't getting some extra payment.
Alex

When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
New you are wrong on a few points
you are paying for more than glass, you are paying for every person who calls in because their mail disappeared (spouse popped it at home) storm damage(katrina) and all the hardware, cable and folks who how to keep it running. We agree with you, you pay for bandwidth, google pays for their bandwidth and somehow we all get service.
Net Neutrality means that when you make a 911 call from your vonage phone because you had an accident at home and your neighbor is downloading the latest porn it means that QOS is not allowed so you have to contend for the same bandwidth, that will make the net a lot less usefull.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New You've fallen victim to propaganda
I've seen Werner Vogels's presentation at gnomedex and talked it over a bit with him at mixers.

Net Neutrality means that the only parameters providers can plug into their rate structure is bandwidth and class of network traffic. You can certainly do QoS stuff giving VOIP higher priority than HTTP if you want to.

You may not charge me more per http packet because you think I live in a rich neighborhood. You may not impose additional costs on me because I set up a website that can take credit card payments and you think I'm making too much money. The network providers have indicated that they want to do exactly this. Who can pay? Big sites. This cements the status quo and stifles innovation.

The providers want to extract a vig from larger web sites, because they think they can get additional revenues. Users who don't pay the vig will see their traffic degraded.




[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]

[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]

[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:45:57 PM EDT
New hardly
The cable co's have no intention of charging more for bandwidth in rich neighborhoods. The only way you can differentiate bandwidth is by QOS. I do not care where the traffic is going, only how much it costs to get there. Cable folks are not telcos, different business model.
[link|http://www.computerwire.com/industries/research/?pid=6E32BC92-F996-4846-B637-49F55B5DD078&type=CW%20News|http://www.computerw...78&type=CW%20News]
Cox spent $15bn in private capital creating our new digital interactive network and will continue to invest in the network so long as there is an incentive to do so,\ufffd said David Edleman, spokesperson of Atlanta-based cable broadband operator Cox Communications Inc, in an email.

\ufffdIt\ufffds not in anyone\ufffds best interest to stifle further innovation and investment -- and government regulation of an industry typically does,\ufffd he said.

What\ufffds more, \ufffdCox does not and will not block or slow access to any legal site on the web. Quite simply, it is not in our interest to do so,\ufffd Edleman said.
the last sentence sez it all, customer service or they go elsewhere.
thanx,

bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Uh huh, go where?
>customer service or they go elsewhere.

Where are they gonna go? Do you have a choice of providers? I don't. I can get comcast, or qwest.

Plenty of others can only get one or the other. Not much choice.

AT&T Chairman Edward E. Whitacre Jr. complained that Internet content providers were getting a free ride: "They don't have any fiber out there. They don't have any wires. . . . They use my lines for free -- and that's bull," he said. "For a Google or a Yahoo or a Vonage or anybody to expect to use these pipes for free is nuts!''

An executive with BellSouth was quoted saying that the company would consider charging Apple five or 10 cents extra each time a customer downloaded a song using iTunes.

No, we're not going to charge differently based on ability to pay. Of course not.



[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]

[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]

[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:46:24 PM EDT
New you wanna live on an island deal with YOUR choices
we live or die with ours and our choice is customer service.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Its no better on the mainland
And how is charging me an extra nickel for iTunes downloads "customer service"?



[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]

[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]

[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:46:32 PM EDT
New obviously you are not my customer
I dont work for a telco, I would rather upsell you on product offerings, every house I pass I have an opportunity to upsell my services. To do that successfully I must offer incentives. The best incentive is the perceived willingness to do whatever it takes to keep you satisfied. Other business models dont work for me. Malaise and willingness to nickel and dime someone to death is why bell south has no services in my home. That model is a complacent one. I have seen it lead to the demise of small telco's and expect the larger ones to follow suit. Someone with big pockets and drive will own the ATT/BellSouth behemouth. The only true telco that gets it appears to be verizon but they are very slow to change, they might not be agile enough.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New cableco ~= telco
same thing really.

New trick is for Comcast to filter non-Comcast VOIP. Net neutrailty will prevent that.



[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]

[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]

[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:47:16 PM EDT
New we will have to agree
you dont know much about networking or what my company does for a living.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New yeah, I only worked cable and telcos for the whole 90s



[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]

[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]

[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:47:42 PM EDT
New The point of mentioning glass is that...
bandwidth ought to be relatively cheap. The other stuff you mention are just the costs of doing business. The only calls I make to Time Warner are to tell them their freakin cable (which is buried) is out! For that reason it's not likely I'll be buying their phone service. But, it has improved over the years.

If I'm having trouble with VoIP, it's because the cable company has too many houses being served by the local hub.
Alex

When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
New Telcos received rate increases in the 90's
to build the information superhighway.

They pocketed the cash and sat on their asses.

We got shafted. I worked in telco in Denver for the entire 90's.

I have no sympathy for the telcos and their sucky management practices. The owe us bigtime.



[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]

[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]

[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:45:59 PM EDT
     The free ride is over. FCC says so. - (bepatient) - (22)
         Ah. So Al Gore is doing this? - (imric) - (5)
             The "fund" was created in 1996. - (bepatient) - (4)
                 So it was GORE that decided to apply this to Vonage! I SEE. - (imric) - (3)
                     Will you just stop it. - (bepatient) - (2)
                         Just wanted you to admit - (imric) - (1)
                             It's a bit like J. Carter limiting the speed limit to 55 -NT - (Simon_Jester)
         It's really simple, Bill. - (a6l6e6x) - (15)
             Yep - (bepatient)
             no net neutrality please, cost too much -NT - (boxley) - (13)
                 Flip that around. We're paying too much for what we get now. - (a6l6e6x) - (11)
                     you are wrong on a few points - (boxley) - (10)
                         You've fallen victim to propaganda - (tuberculosis) - (8)
                             hardly - (boxley) - (7)
                                 Uh huh, go where? - (tuberculosis) - (6)
                                     you wanna live on an island deal with YOUR choices - (boxley) - (5)
                                         Its no better on the mainland - (tuberculosis) - (4)
                                             obviously you are not my customer - (boxley) - (3)
                                                 cableco ~= telco - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                                     we will have to agree - (boxley) - (1)
                                                         yeah, I only worked cable and telcos for the whole 90s -NT - (tuberculosis)
                         The point of mentioning glass is that... - (a6l6e6x)
                 Telcos received rate increases in the 90's - (tuberculosis)

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