Yes, your ass, then - 'cos it is.

Post #24,591 by CRConrad 1/16/02 7:55:26 AM Reply	Yes, your ass, then - 'cos it is. Da Beard: if it is a safety measure, then you're right. As I was going to (but, apparently unwisely, refrained from) reply to your original "But was it a "real" 31 mph zone?" post: In the U.S., most speed traps... Well, there you have it then -- "In the U.S". This wasn't. Now, back to this one: Such a low speed limit does imply a residential zone and might conceivably be a legitimate safety measure for the local residents. Yes, indeed it is -- I found out only yesterday, from a newspaper article (the main subject of which was that he'd appealed the judgement) that it took place on the Särkiniementie (street) on Lauttasaari (island in Helsinki), where I live. I used to cross the Särkiniementie walking to and from work every day, at my previous job. (That's about the only thing that was better about that job, it was in easy walking distance.) What's more important, so did -- and do! -- a lot of school and pre-school children. But even so, $100,000 for a speeding ticket? Yeah. He HAS a whole big fat GIANT lot of money, so yes, $100,000 for a speeding ticket is eminently reasonable -- it doesn't hurt him more than a $500 fine would hurt you or me. Do you have any real objection, besides being oh-so-typically flabbergasted by the thought of a lot of money? The very fact that you can only ask "But even so, $100,000 for a speeding ticket?", with no logical reasoning or other rationale, makes it look quite like you don't. Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #24,595 by boxley 1/16/02 9:02:52 AM Reply	perhaps a loss of driving privileges would serve as well? Must be the murikan shivers that got me, a 100k fer speeding? bullpuckey. Your argument that a 100 dollar fine would be laughed at is true. If his conduct is worth the lives of 10 children (in some enlightened states with tort reform you cannot be compensated for the negligent death of a child for more than 10k) perhaps lifting his license for a set period would hurt more than the money. thanx, bill My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #24,607 by CRConrad 1/16/02 10:52:41 AM Reply	Yes, but then again, it wasn't all that bad; only speeding His conduct -- as so many of you have pointed out, speeding per se doesn't have to be all that bad; there's lots of even worse things to do in traffic -- is worth only what to you or me would be a $500 (proctonumerology) fine. For instance, if there had actually been children crossing the street as he sped by and was caught, if the police had actually seen him narrowly escape slaughtering someone's kid, then I assume he'd have been charged with more than speeding; "Reckless Driving" or whatever it may be called. Wouldn't you say that having your license taken away would be a lot worse than paying the $500 fine? OK, so this guy has a lot more money than we do -- but only one driving license, just like everybody else. So the legal presumption, as I understand it, is that he values mere cash a lot less than the rest of us do, but his license just as highly as we do. (Seems reasonable, no?) And therefore, since he didn't actually kill anybody or anything, the harsher[] punishment of removing his license would be no more called-for in his case than it would if it had been you or me that had been speeding. Oh, and lest you try to confuse the issue by conflating Finland with some "state" (You mean, as in "part of America"?!? Sounds more like some fucking third-world hell-hole!) again: I don't think Finland has any such cap on valuing a life. (Sure, our courts don't make people multi-billionaires as compensation, either... But that's just common sense.) But actually, that's neither here nor there: "Tort reform" has nothing to do with it; this wasn't compensation* (to anyone in particular), it was a fine (payable to the state), "pour encourager les autres" (and the guy in question himself, too, in the future). []: Follows logically from the above. Now, maybe the law doesn't have the valuation differential for cash-vs-license at all points along the taxable-income scale perfectly correct, so maybe he would* prefer giving up driving to paying the fine... But, hey, so might you or I with our much lower fines! It's the principle we're talking about, and AFAICS that holds. Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #24,629 by Ashton 1/16/02 3:54:43 PM Reply	However eminently sensible is this sliding scale.. (and it is that, IMhO too) Couldn't likely ever be instigated here - at least pre- National epiphany about 'wealth' and other difficult 6-letter words. Why.. it would mean, revealing to The Court, against a long-running local taboo: how much one Makes! / is 'worth'. Then there'd be the bugaboo about a National coordinated database on Everyone. And That is not so silly a concern, given homo-sap behavior, the proliferation of the M$ Insecurity Virus all over and ___ well, we all know what else. But final ax is: 'we' are in abject denial about the sanity of our Corporate laws making it possible for one humanoid to control $50B worth of "power over others' lives" - while 20-25% of Murican children live below the poverty level (Oh and.. lots else in similar vein). No One wants to face the Ogre which completely unrestrained vulture capitalism has created. And damn sure No One WANTS to contemplate what it means that: 3-5% own over half of all there is to 'own'. ie all this bucket of worms would need to be addressed before: such a sane policy might be instigated into the tender consumer psyches of the Murican Peepul. Y'see? Ashton (Finns I take it, are less reluctant to call a spade a umm spade. Here euphemism is the National parlor game. We lie to ourselves a lot.. but please to call it Patriotism)
Post #24,652 by Meerkat 1/16/02 6:02:52 PM Reply	Licence Demerit Points. I'm guessing NSW, Australia isn't the only place that has a 'points' system on their drivers licenses? To cut a long story short, various traffic offences carry a various amount of demerit points. Accrue too many points and you lose your licence. Full info is [link\|http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/a67_c.htm\|here at the RTA web site]. In short: Once accuring 12 points, you temporarily lose your licence. This is in conjunction with fines. So if you can wear the fines, you still have the points to consider. In peak danger periods, primarily long weekends, and Easter, double-point periods are instituted. So for instance if you exceed the speed limit by 45kmh, you accrue 12 points instead of the usual 6. The average licence has a limit of 12 points, so on a double-demerit period you instantly lose your licence. On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #24,657 by Ashton 1/16/02 6:16:06 PM Reply	Yes, CA has that too and I presume - most other states by now (?) It's heavily weighted for drunk, reckless etc. as is proper. But usual secondary effects (here) re 'speeding' occur on insurance renewal. Again.. none of these costs matter to the plutocrat. But as said above - yes! losing driving provilege is the one adjustment across all classes. Personally I like the UK "L" plate for learner; warns everyone that you ain't ept yet. Possibly - just short of licens(c)e suspension - we might contemplate a "D" plate [Dangerous]: warns everyone that you have the attention span of a 2-year old and are just as apt to throw a temper tantrum. Social pressures might work even on the Super-Ego class (?) Imagine if you had to learn to be polite.. to get the D removed? A.
Post #24,658 by Meerkat 1/16/02 6:44:17 PM Reply	mind your L's and P's Aye, we too have L plates whilst you're learning, and once you pass your driving test you get you red P (for Provisional) plates, which you're on for a year. Provided you've not done anything silly enough to lose them, you then move on to green P plates which you have for another two years or so, before you finally become plateless. So it's handy in so far as knowing whose way to keep out of. Of course, at times it could be handy if there were 'Pensioner' plates as well :) But just keep out of the way of Toyota Crowns and everything is usually OK. On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #24,637 by wharris2 1/16/02 4:33:56 PM Reply	On the sliding scale I grant CR a lot. We're both right, CR. "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth
Post #24,655 by CRConrad 1/16/02 6:10:45 PM Reply	OK!

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