couple of swings at the choice point ball if you please

Choice Point is a database design consultancy. They drew up the list under the criteria given to them by Jeb et al. They were asked to create a list of felons, without dob race or social security numbers even though they requested to include those. The list went to elected officials of each county to either use or not to prevent felons from voting because a certain political party who shall remain nameless was signing up voters in the county jails on the east side of the state. Chances were good that some of those incarcerated were felons. Some county officials in the west side of the state gleefully began striking voters as fast as they could. In Miami, they roundfiled the list.

Yes shenanigans all around but the company could have been bill and ben conslutants and we could have offshored the work to CRC. Choice point got the product out in time and under budget, shrub seeing the success his brother had with getting what he ordered used the same crew (with appropriate grease no doubt) if Ted Kennedy is a name on the no fly chances are there was a Ted Kennedy visiting the maze prison in eirland in the past 30 years. Once again no DOB was to be provided.

Lets keep the blame focused shall we, not on the companies but the companions.
thanx.
bill

I don't know what the Democrats may or may not have done in the east of the state. Regardless of what happened there, the abuse that they were doing is far exceeded by the abuse that the Republicans did.

There is no question that ChoicePoint did what they were asked to do by Jeb. However the instructions that they were given were clearly going to produce a list of "felons" that was going to be mostly black, and mostly not felons. Which is indeed what they got.

You're right that in the 2004 election, some counties applied the list and some did not. However in the 2000 election, the ones who did not apply the list were a distinct minority.

The estimate that I've seen is that if that list had only contained real felons, Gore would have won handily. Heck, if they just eliminated the "felons" on the list for which they didn't have a date of conviction, or had one in the future, Gore would have still won.

Of course if they didn't block the felons who were convicted in states that reinstate your right to vote (these people legally can vote in Florida, no matter what local law says about convicted felons), then Gore would have had a much nicer margin still. This group of felons is particularly interesting - 2000 was not the first year that they were barred, and therefore was not the first year that the State of Florida wound up in court about the issue and wound up ordered to allow them to vote. As in previous years (and as happened again in 2004), these court orders were ignored.

Of course there were plenty of other election shenanigans that cost even more black votes than the ChoicePoint nonsense, but ChoicePoint is widely publicized so I'm using it as an example. Plus it is a case that is particularly well litigated, the fact that the process continues to be abused at this point cannot possibly be due to ignorance on anyone's part. The system is broken. Is known to be broken. And the people running the system intend for it to stay that way, no matter minor details such as the legality of the matter.

Now I'm sure that you have some reason why this illegal purge should be treated as a minor offense. I'd love to hear it.

Cheers,
Ben

PS My personal opinion is that Florida should simplify affairs by joining over 2/3 of the Union and returning the right to vote to a felon once the sentence has been served. But that is just me.

PPS If you'll note, I was not blaming ChoicePoint for the mess as much as the Bush family...

Post #223,543 by boxley 9/7/05 7:48:37 PM Reply	couple of swings at the choice point ball if you please Choice Point is a database design consultancy. They drew up the list under the criteria given to them by Jeb et al. They were asked to create a list of felons, without dob race or social security numbers even though they requested to include those. The list went to elected officials of each county to either use or not to prevent felons from voting because a certain political party who shall remain nameless was signing up voters in the county jails on the east side of the state. Chances were good that some of those incarcerated were felons. Some county officials in the west side of the state gleefully began striking voters as fast as they could. In Miami, they roundfiled the list. Yes shenanigans all around but the company could have been bill and ben conslutants and we could have offshored the work to CRC. Choice point got the product out in time and under budget, shrub seeing the success his brother had with getting what he ordered used the same crew (with appropriate grease no doubt) if Ted Kennedy is a name on the no fly chances are there was a Ted Kennedy visiting the maze prison in eirland in the past 30 years. Once again no DOB was to be provided. Lets keep the blame focused shall we, not on the companies but the companions. thanx. bill "the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #223,552 by Another Scott 9/7/05 8:05:18 PM Reply	Well said.
Post #223,599 by ben_tilly 9/7/05 11:04:30 PM Reply	If you want... I don't know what the Democrats may or may not have done in the east of the state. Regardless of what happened there, the abuse that they were doing is far exceeded by the abuse that the Republicans did. There is no question that ChoicePoint did what they were asked to do by Jeb. However the instructions that they were given were clearly going to produce a list of "felons" that was going to be mostly black, and mostly not felons. Which is indeed what they got. You're right that in the 2004 election, some counties applied the list and some did not. However in the 2000 election, the ones who did not apply the list were a distinct minority. The estimate that I've seen is that if that list had only contained real felons, Gore would have won handily. Heck, if they just eliminated the "felons" on the list for which they didn't have a date of conviction, or had one in the future, Gore would have still won. Of course if they didn't block the felons who were convicted in states that reinstate your right to vote (these people legally can vote in Florida, no matter what local law says about convicted felons), then Gore would have had a much nicer margin still. This group of felons is particularly interesting - 2000 was not the first year that they were barred, and therefore was not the first year that the State of Florida wound up in court about the issue and wound up ordered to allow them to vote. As in previous years (and as happened again in 2004), these court orders were ignored. Of course there were plenty of other election shenanigans that cost even more black votes than the ChoicePoint nonsense, but ChoicePoint is widely publicized so I'm using it as an example. Plus it is a case that is particularly well litigated, the fact that the process continues to be abused at this point cannot possibly be due to ignorance on anyone's part. The system is broken. Is known to be broken. And the people running the system intend for it to stay that way, no matter minor details such as the legality of the matter. Now I'm sure that you have some reason why this illegal purge should be treated as a minor offense. I'd love to hear it. Cheers, Ben PS My personal opinion is that Florida should simplify affairs by joining over 2/3 of the Union and returning the right to vote to a felon once the sentence has been served. But that is just me. PPS If you'll note, I was not blaming ChoicePoint for the mess as much as the Bush family... I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)

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