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New Rebuttal
"emperor's have a vested interest in maintaining the empire, a monarchy only wants to maintain themselves"
Hmmm...Napoleon seemed a little self-absorbed/self-serving to me.

"we are taking in more tax revenue than before"
Uh, yeah, from the lower and middle class.

"can you say Tyson foods or creating national parks over dirt that threatened your buddy the Sultan."

The Tyson case is not relevant. And The Sultan is not my buddy. That is merely a case of keeping your friends close, but your enemies closer.

"raping of natural resources"
Stick to the subject, Box. We are talking domestic natural resources here. See also below.

"clintons refused to look for domestic oil increasing foreign dependence"
How much was a barrel of crude during Clinton admin? Besides, he wasn't looking for oil, kind sir....

[The Clinton Administration has taken] action on:
*Successfully negotiated the Kyoto Protocol, which sets strong, realistic targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and establishes flexible, market-based mechanisms to achieve them as cost-effectively as possible.
* Extended the tax credits for wind and biomass energy production through 2001.
* Set a goal of tripling our use of bioenergy and bioproducts by 2010.
* Increased research funding to more than $1.7 billion in FY 2000 to provide a sound scientific understanding of both the human and natural forces that influence the Earth\ufffds climate system.
* Issued new energy efficiency standards for home appliances that will save consumers money and reduce emissions of greenhouse gases.
* Directed federal agencies to reduce energy use in buildings 35 percent by 2010, reducing annual greenhouse gas emissions by the equivalent of taking 1.7 million cars off the road and saving taxpayers over $750 million a year.


"bombing aspirin factories ring a bell? enabling muslims to take over slavic lands?"

Who gives a crap about an aspirin factory. Bush invaded a whole country on weaker evidence than Bill's on the above. And Bill paid them back for their trouble. Besides, how many Americans died....zip.

part deux: "It is finally clear to most historians and pundits that 1992-5 was essentially a war of aggression pursued by the Serbs and the Bosnian Serbs upon the peaceful, sovereign, and multiethnic nation of Bosnia-Herzegovina, and one in which the Croats connived for territorial gain." From Wikipedia. Something had to be done and it was fully supported by the UN community.
The war in Iraq, clearly, is not.

"he {Bush}faked evidence to get on with a war that was inevitable, the cost of containment vs the cost of invasion. The invasion went well but exit strategy and occupation suffered from extremely poor planning. Brer Bill would have done better because he would have relied on more traditional military methods.

HA!

Shrub is an anencephalic squirrel, Hillary is a brainiac.

Peace, my friend :)
Amy



"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Heilige Sheisse, what a ride!'"

.

New Correction for you
We are actually taking in more money from the upper class than ever before. Their tax rate has gone down, but our current distorted economic system is diverting so much extra money their way that they are paying more dollars.

If trickle-down worked this might be good news for the rest of us. But it never has and there is no evidence that it every will.

That's the short version, for the extremely long version I highly recommend Wealth and Democracy.

Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
     Just for the record. - (imqwerky) - (134)
         and she would make the trains run on time, yeah right - (boxley) - (15)
             Man, you gotta stop listening to Faux News. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                 who used Anthony Pelicano as their personal punch? -NT - (boxley)
             Oh Puhhhhhleeeezzzzzzz - (imqwerky) - (12)
                 point by point - (boxley) - (11)
                     /me raises hand - (jb4) - (3)
                         brunei, specifically ending a contract for mining in utah - (boxley) - (2)
                             Would that Alabama governor happen to be named Wallace? -NT - (jb4) - (1)
                                 /me makes whistling sound while gazing elsewhere -NT - (boxley)
                     Hardly any points. Why can't you STOP believing that drivel? - (CRConrad) - (4)
                         gee, is Rupert your dad? must be, you look like him - (boxley) - (3)
                             It matters if it is my Dad you're fellating,or someone else? - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                 :-) yer slipping, does juanita broderick ring a bell? -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Nope. Well, maybe, but none of mine anyway. -NT - (CRConrad)
                     Rebuttal - (imqwerky) - (1)
                         Correction for you - (ben_tilly)
         I don't care about Hillary's gender - (ben_tilly) - (75)
             ROFL. - (mmoffitt) - (70)
                 No, because it was beaurocratic crap. - (ben_tilly) - (69)
                     Why you can't leave it to the states. - (mmoffitt) - (65)
                         Swell. - (imric) - (53)
                             Fuck you. - (mmoffitt) - (51)
                                 You could say that about any profession - (drewk) - (6)
                                     Fairly? - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                         Those going into soldiering often don't have better options - (drewk) - (2)
                                             What about the officers? - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                 They get paid quite a bit better - (drewk)
                                     Not necessarily - (imqwerky) - (1)
                                         Priorities - (drewk)
                                 And who the hell is gonna pay for the education? - (imric) - (34)
                                     next time mikey gets sick, send him to the va - (boxley) - (1)
                                         Yet another example of "supporting our troops" - (ben_tilly)
                                     Ping-pong policy-making...? -NT - (admin) - (1)
                                         You said it! -NT - (imric)
                                     We manage alright over here... - (pwhysall) - (29)
                                         Litigious fucks. - (imric) - (12)
                                             If your hypothetical MD does as you say, - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                                                 So you're against the Physician's union? - (imric) - (10)
                                                     Huh? - (mmoffitt) - (9)
                                                         Yeah. Right. - (imric) - (8)
                                                             You can't even fucking read, can you skippy? - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                 Ok, cretin. - (imric) - (6)
                                                                     Again, you mislead. - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                         _I_ mislead? - (imric) - (4)
                                                                             Free clue, knucklefuckers. - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                                                                 But I'm having too much fun HERE! -NT - (imric) - (2)
                                                                                     Crap. I c. My bad. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                                                         OK - (imric)
                                         Amen, with caveat. - (mmoffitt) - (15)
                                             The escalation of premiums is tied to the stock market - (ben_tilly) - (14)
                                                 I know about Reserve requirements, but, - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                     You may want to look into this further - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                         Excellent point. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                             80 % of deaths occur in hospitals - let's tear 'em all down! - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                                 No, they're talking about terminal cases - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                     A) Schiavo. B) Yeah, I know. C) Yup, as Fernet-Branca grappa - (CRConrad)
                                                 A Flash of Brilliance! - (imqwerky) - (7)
                                                     Aside: Know what the difference between God and an MD is? - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                         Good one! -NT - (imqwerky)
                                                         Wanna fix that habit they have? - (Ashton)
                                                     Socialized insurance is what Canada has :-) -NT - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                                         Study this more I will, yessssssssss. - (imqwerky) - (2)
                                                             Isn't there a bit of Gollum in there too, yessssssssss? :-) -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                 Wellll, it should have been more of a yeeeeeeeees. - (imqwerky)
                                 "Patient, what would you like me to prescribe?" - (Arkadiy) - (8)
                                     Only the best for me ;-) signed The patient Patient -NT - (bepatient)
                                     And you think none of that happens when you pay them? - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                                         And another - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                                             Agreed. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                 Inconsistent with Puritannical roots.___(really!) Sorry. - (Ashton)
                                         The above crap happened to 4 people - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                             Ah, but isn't getting more if you pay more your ideal? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                 Yes, when it's properly labeled as such -NT - (Arkadiy)
                             Soldiers get paid a lot less. - (pwhysall)
                         People made that argument when Canada did it - (ben_tilly) - (10)
                             Er, I don't think you're an idiot. - (mmoffitt) - (9)
                                 I think I've pointed this out before - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                     You misinterpretted my Kaiser question. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                         As far as I can see I understood your point perfectly - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                             Where did I suggest Canada was like Kaiser? - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                 Try here... - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                                     I didn't read it that way. - (Another Scott)
                                                     I think he was *contrasting* Kaiser to (his image of) Canada -NT - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                         It sure doesn't look like that to me - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                             Your hypothesis has the weakness... - (CRConrad)
                     Isn't Canada's health system having problems now? - (Another Scott) - (2)
                         flame forum asshole take this to politics :-) -NT - (boxley)
                         Part of a long-term unsustainable trend - (ben_tilly)
             I don't know how much of a disaster it would have been - (jb4) - (3)
                 The amount of bureaucracy created... - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                     So in your mind bureaucracy == failure? - (jb4) - (1)
                         No - (ben_tilly)
         She's a fucking fraud, only out for #1! - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
             ICLRPD (new thread) - (Steve Lowe)
         On not supporting HRC for president - (rcareaga) - (7)
             ICLRPD (new thread) - (broomberg)
             Precisam\ufffdnte boyo.. - (Ashton)
             If she is so good why is every republican in the nation - (boxley) - (4)
                 sure you do--you call the treat "WorldNetDaily" -NT - (rcareaga) - (3)
                     I know that sometimes there is nuggets under those rocks - (boxley) - (2)
                         Wooooo - (drewk) - (1)
                             (it was ghost-written...) -NT - (jb4)
         Troll Successful! - (imqwerky) - (7)
             That's one way to try to end a thread... -NT - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                 "Try"being the operative word. Doesn't usually work, though. - (CRConrad) - (4)
                     Critter made me do it :-D - (imqwerky) - (2)
                         (Never mind this one; duplicate) -NT - (CRConrad)
                         Uh, Amy, couldja do us a favour, please? (new thread) - (CRConrad)
                     Clue to planet Christian... - (ben_tilly)
                 ObLRPD: "tilly wonders what the upper limit ... " - (drewk)
         In The Inquirer fortune today. More on HRK. - (Another Scott) - (4)
             she is neither evil nor a leftist - (boxley) - (3)
                 How do you explain that Moynahan suppored her? - (Another Scott) - (1)
                     how many times was the word vindictive used? smoke/fire -NT - (boxley)
                 Jesus H. - (mmoffitt)
         Howabout we get someone new? - (tuberculosis) - (18)
             That's how we get idiots in the White House - (ChrisR) - (8)
                 As opposed to the solid performance of the former governors? - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                     Jesse Ventura, Bob Hickel -NT - (boxley)
                     former governors - (rcareaga) - (1)
                         I stand corrected -NT - (tuberculosis)
                     Clinton, governor of Alabama? I thought it was Arkansas... - (CRConrad) - (3)
                         Ahem, AK is alaska AR Arkansas AZ arizona -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                             Ah, I see. Well, if there's ever anything *else*... -NT - (CRConrad)
                         One of those southern A-a states -NT - (tuberculosis)
             I think you aren't far off - (Ashton) - (8)
                 Depressingly True, But there is hope. - (imqwerky) - (7)
                     Don't kids usually try to be the opposite of their parents? -NT - (drewk) - (6)
                         Point Taken - (imqwerky) - (3)
                             /me sniggers - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                                 He's already rebelled. - (imqwerky) - (1)
                                     He's in the minority then - (ben_tilly)
                         Usually failing in the end -NT - (tuberculosis)
                         Same or opposite, little in between - (ben_tilly)

Many of the dead have finished being dead without the assistance of medical staff or fancy equipment.
250 ms