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New Yeah. Right.
"
And of course, physicians are paying big bucks to insurers NOT because malpractice abuse is a big threat to them, but instead because, out of the goodness of thier hearts, they want to help the poor, failing insurance companies."
"It's really much simpler than that. It's just two fat cat capitalists going after the same dollars."

Nice argument. It's what I'm coming to expect, here. So - insurance isn't needed, because the AMA protects the doctors, but doctors are paying the insurers because doctors are 'fat cat capitalists', eh? I wasn't aware that 'fat cat capitalists' were so prone to throwing money away unnecessarily. And tell me, pray - these 'programs' that doctors can take advantage of to pay off their expenses for both school and liability - they are, of course, more than enough to supply the country with medical help, no? Got ANY figures? No? Well, what's your answer (since you want to IMPOVERISH - your word - the medical community) then? Let's see, there aren't enough to do it for love, there shouldn't be any monetary incentive (if you have your way), and still you think there should be plenty of doctors willing to shoulder the huge resonsibility of preserving human life. Riiiiight. The only way YOUR way would work would be to FORCE people to be doctors. Just think of the care you'd get then, eh?

Once again, you take the worst stereotypes you can imagine (doctors that 'won't willingly give anything to anybody' 'fat cat capitalists' 'money hungry facists', etc, etc), extrapolate those qualities to the entire set, and then try and use that as a 'rationalization' for depriving everybody in the group. Your straw men live in whole straw villages, apparently.

For the record, when I was poor, I had an orthopedic surgeon write off a full orthopedic reconstruction, including anasthesiology, hospital stay, EVERYTHING - without it ever going to collections or being marked on my credit report. I've had doctors give me free treatment including antibiotics and drugs, too, when I couldn't pay.

Those BASTARDS. Those money-grubbing capitalist fascist BASTARDS. How DARE they give the poor free care? And of course, the drain on finances for hospitals that DON'T throw the poor into the street because they can't pay is just imaginary. After all, thats the MO for hospitals, right? We'll just ignore the care my dirt poor, uninsured buddy with MS gets, the dental care my other friends have recieved when they didn't have a pot to piss in (true, just extractions, but still), and all the other things those evil capitalistic bastards do when they can. In short, you are FULL OF IT.

You apparently only have simplistic, poorly thought out arguments fuelled by your hatred of the extreme ends of capitalism. If you are a typical 'communist', it's no wonder communism is a laughingstock.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 


New You can't even fucking read, can you skippy?
Once again, you take the worst stereotypes you can imagine (doctors that 'won't willingly give anything to anybody' 'fat cat capitalists' 'money hungry facists', etc, etc), extrapolate those qualities to the entire set,...

The entire set? Here's me, in my own words (emphasis added because you cannot fucking read for content):

Of course, most physicians (not all to be sure, but the vast majority of them)

Jesus, man, if I couldn't read any better than that I think I'd remember the old adage that "'Tis better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt" a little more clearly.

My whole fucking point is, (and I realize that you are at a disadvantage as you have the comprehensive abilities of a gnat), that good medical care is not available only when obscenely high monetary rewards are offered. You're fucking arguing my point and calling me an idiot! You are too much, really.


bcnu,
Mikem

It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
New Ok, cretin.
Just because you make a disclaimer that some doctors may be ok, then go on to call most of them fascists, pigs, etc, etc don't cut it, pinhead. I don't lead THAT charmed a life that I can believe that (based on the doctors and med-staf I KNOW and am RELATED TO) 'most physicians' are greedy shits out to soak people. If that's what floats your boat, bubby, then by all means hallucinate away. You can live in your little black-and-white fantasy world where 'impoverishing clinicians' is the right thing to do, but like I said, I want to be there to laugh when you complain about the state of medical care if even a FRACTION of your brain-dead ideas are ever put into place.

You didn't say anything moderate, you fucking asshole. You weren't arguing specifically against obscenely high medical rates - you were arguing to IMPOVERISH (remember that word? No? Syphilis kick in again?) medical workers. Then you tried to insist that doctors aren't REALLY under financial pressure, that the AMA protected them from any liability, and that they can pay off all expenses by going to underserved areas to practice.

In closing, you moronic get of a diseased babboon - you haven't managed to actually SAY anything that makes any kind of point, or even makes any SENSE, at all!
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 


New Again, you mislead.
Impoverish physicians != Impoverish all medical workers. HTH, pinhead.
bcnu,
Mikem

It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
New _I_ mislead?
You tell me I can't read when you can't even decipher what you wrote?

Here:
"And, if we are going to be able to afford it, clinicians and hospitals are going to have to be impoverished."


cli\ufffdni\ufffdcian Pronunciation Key (kl-nshn) n.

  1. A health professional, such as a physician, psychiatrist, psychologist, or nurse, involved in clinical practice, as distinguished from one specializing in research.

  2. A health professional who practices at a clinic.


Why do I keep having to throw the dictionary at you?
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 


New Free clue, knucklefuckers.
Take this to Politics.


Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New But I'm having too much fun HERE!
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 


New Crap. I c. My bad.
I had this argument with a few physicians my wife works with that we had at a party a couple of years ago. I've always refused to call a physician "doctor" and was arguing with the MDs that they were clinicians, not doctors; for, doctors wrote and defended dissertations and mds did not. After quite a few beers and a visit to m-w.com, they all agreed that "clinician" fit them better than "doctor". So, when I say "clinician" I mean "physician". One of them even introduces himself as "Clinician X" to patients in the ER now. ;0)

bcnu,
Mikem

It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
New OK
I still say the problem isn't greedy doctors. Or hospitals, for that matter.

It's the goddamned insurance companies, and their partners in 'crime', the lawyers.

I've worked in the insurance industry in one capacity or another for the last 23 years; the profit margins are obscene, regulation is minimal, and government falls all over itself to make insurance mandatory.

It's not just MDs of course, the insurance industry infects everything.







Having said that, one of the reasons I'm happy with my current job is that my current employer is one of the most moral insurers I've ever worked for - they allow employees a say in company policies, the CEO has informal chat sessions with low-level employees in order to get an idea about problems, and they don't rape their customers. Our economic landscape might be a LOT better if more companies were like this one. I plan to stay here a long time; I don't feel dirty workng here. I only hope they keep it up as they grow.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
]
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 


     Just for the record. - (imqwerky) - (134)
         and she would make the trains run on time, yeah right - (boxley) - (15)
             Man, you gotta stop listening to Faux News. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                 who used Anthony Pelicano as their personal punch? -NT - (boxley)
             Oh Puhhhhhleeeezzzzzzz - (imqwerky) - (12)
                 point by point - (boxley) - (11)
                     /me raises hand - (jb4) - (3)
                         brunei, specifically ending a contract for mining in utah - (boxley) - (2)
                             Would that Alabama governor happen to be named Wallace? -NT - (jb4) - (1)
                                 /me makes whistling sound while gazing elsewhere -NT - (boxley)
                     Hardly any points. Why can't you STOP believing that drivel? - (CRConrad) - (4)
                         gee, is Rupert your dad? must be, you look like him - (boxley) - (3)
                             It matters if it is my Dad you're fellating,or someone else? - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                 :-) yer slipping, does juanita broderick ring a bell? -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Nope. Well, maybe, but none of mine anyway. -NT - (CRConrad)
                     Rebuttal - (imqwerky) - (1)
                         Correction for you - (ben_tilly)
         I don't care about Hillary's gender - (ben_tilly) - (75)
             ROFL. - (mmoffitt) - (70)
                 No, because it was beaurocratic crap. - (ben_tilly) - (69)
                     Why you can't leave it to the states. - (mmoffitt) - (65)
                         Swell. - (imric) - (53)
                             Fuck you. - (mmoffitt) - (51)
                                 You could say that about any profession - (drewk) - (6)
                                     Fairly? - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                         Those going into soldiering often don't have better options - (drewk) - (2)
                                             What about the officers? - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                 They get paid quite a bit better - (drewk)
                                     Not necessarily - (imqwerky) - (1)
                                         Priorities - (drewk)
                                 And who the hell is gonna pay for the education? - (imric) - (34)
                                     next time mikey gets sick, send him to the va - (boxley) - (1)
                                         Yet another example of "supporting our troops" - (ben_tilly)
                                     Ping-pong policy-making...? -NT - (admin) - (1)
                                         You said it! -NT - (imric)
                                     We manage alright over here... - (pwhysall) - (29)
                                         Litigious fucks. - (imric) - (12)
                                             If your hypothetical MD does as you say, - (mmoffitt) - (11)
                                                 So you're against the Physician's union? - (imric) - (10)
                                                     Huh? - (mmoffitt) - (9)
                                                         Yeah. Right. - (imric) - (8)
                                                             You can't even fucking read, can you skippy? - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                                                 Ok, cretin. - (imric) - (6)
                                                                     Again, you mislead. - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                                         _I_ mislead? - (imric) - (4)
                                                                             Free clue, knucklefuckers. - (pwhysall) - (3)
                                                                                 But I'm having too much fun HERE! -NT - (imric) - (2)
                                                                                     Crap. I c. My bad. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                                                         OK - (imric)
                                         Amen, with caveat. - (mmoffitt) - (15)
                                             The escalation of premiums is tied to the stock market - (ben_tilly) - (14)
                                                 I know about Reserve requirements, but, - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                     You may want to look into this further - (bepatient) - (4)
                                                         Excellent point. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                                             80 % of deaths occur in hospitals - let's tear 'em all down! - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                                 No, they're talking about terminal cases - (drewk) - (1)
                                                                     A) Schiavo. B) Yeah, I know. C) Yup, as Fernet-Branca grappa - (CRConrad)
                                                 A Flash of Brilliance! - (imqwerky) - (7)
                                                     Aside: Know what the difference between God and an MD is? - (mmoffitt) - (2)
                                                         Good one! -NT - (imqwerky)
                                                         Wanna fix that habit they have? - (Ashton)
                                                     Socialized insurance is what Canada has :-) -NT - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                                                         Study this more I will, yessssssssss. - (imqwerky) - (2)
                                                             Isn't there a bit of Gollum in there too, yessssssssss? :-) -NT - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                                                 Wellll, it should have been more of a yeeeeeeeees. - (imqwerky)
                                 "Patient, what would you like me to prescribe?" - (Arkadiy) - (8)
                                     Only the best for me ;-) signed The patient Patient -NT - (bepatient)
                                     And you think none of that happens when you pay them? - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                                         And another - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                                             Agreed. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                 Inconsistent with Puritannical roots.___(really!) Sorry. - (Ashton)
                                         The above crap happened to 4 people - (Arkadiy) - (2)
                                             Ah, but isn't getting more if you pay more your ideal? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                 Yes, when it's properly labeled as such -NT - (Arkadiy)
                             Soldiers get paid a lot less. - (pwhysall)
                         People made that argument when Canada did it - (ben_tilly) - (10)
                             Er, I don't think you're an idiot. - (mmoffitt) - (9)
                                 I think I've pointed this out before - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                     You misinterpretted my Kaiser question. - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                                         As far as I can see I understood your point perfectly - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                             Where did I suggest Canada was like Kaiser? - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                                 Try here... - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                                     I didn't read it that way. - (Another Scott)
                                                     I think he was *contrasting* Kaiser to (his image of) Canada -NT - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                         It sure doesn't look like that to me - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                             Your hypothesis has the weakness... - (CRConrad)
                     Isn't Canada's health system having problems now? - (Another Scott) - (2)
                         flame forum asshole take this to politics :-) -NT - (boxley)
                         Part of a long-term unsustainable trend - (ben_tilly)
             I don't know how much of a disaster it would have been - (jb4) - (3)
                 The amount of bureaucracy created... - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                     So in your mind bureaucracy == failure? - (jb4) - (1)
                         No - (ben_tilly)
         She's a fucking fraud, only out for #1! - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
             ICLRPD (new thread) - (Steve Lowe)
         On not supporting HRC for president - (rcareaga) - (7)
             ICLRPD (new thread) - (broomberg)
             Precisam\ufffdnte boyo.. - (Ashton)
             If she is so good why is every republican in the nation - (boxley) - (4)
                 sure you do--you call the treat "WorldNetDaily" -NT - (rcareaga) - (3)
                     I know that sometimes there is nuggets under those rocks - (boxley) - (2)
                         Wooooo - (drewk) - (1)
                             (it was ghost-written...) -NT - (jb4)
         Troll Successful! - (imqwerky) - (7)
             That's one way to try to end a thread... -NT - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                 "Try"being the operative word. Doesn't usually work, though. - (CRConrad) - (4)
                     Critter made me do it :-D - (imqwerky) - (2)
                         (Never mind this one; duplicate) -NT - (CRConrad)
                         Uh, Amy, couldja do us a favour, please? (new thread) - (CRConrad)
                     Clue to planet Christian... - (ben_tilly)
                 ObLRPD: "tilly wonders what the upper limit ... " - (drewk)
         In The Inquirer fortune today. More on HRK. - (Another Scott) - (4)
             she is neither evil nor a leftist - (boxley) - (3)
                 How do you explain that Moynahan suppored her? - (Another Scott) - (1)
                     how many times was the word vindictive used? smoke/fire -NT - (boxley)
                 Jesus H. - (mmoffitt)
         Howabout we get someone new? - (tuberculosis) - (18)
             That's how we get idiots in the White House - (ChrisR) - (8)
                 As opposed to the solid performance of the former governors? - (tuberculosis) - (7)
                     Jesse Ventura, Bob Hickel -NT - (boxley)
                     former governors - (rcareaga) - (1)
                         I stand corrected -NT - (tuberculosis)
                     Clinton, governor of Alabama? I thought it was Arkansas... - (CRConrad) - (3)
                         Ahem, AK is alaska AR Arkansas AZ arizona -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                             Ah, I see. Well, if there's ever anything *else*... -NT - (CRConrad)
                         One of those southern A-a states -NT - (tuberculosis)
             I think you aren't far off - (Ashton) - (8)
                 Depressingly True, But there is hope. - (imqwerky) - (7)
                     Don't kids usually try to be the opposite of their parents? -NT - (drewk) - (6)
                         Point Taken - (imqwerky) - (3)
                             /me sniggers - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                                 He's already rebelled. - (imqwerky) - (1)
                                     He's in the minority then - (ben_tilly)
                         Usually failing in the end -NT - (tuberculosis)
                         Same or opposite, little in between - (ben_tilly)

Same thing we do every night, Pinky...
202 ms