Post #201,625
4/2/05 12:28:23 AM
4/2/05 12:35:22 AM
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Hard facts for Ethical Vegetarians
Now I'm not against vegetarians and was one for many years and, who knows, might be one in the future, though I plead guilty to never having been a strictly "ethical" one.
I will make no health claims for either side because neither side has adequately substantiated its claims. My basic tenet is that if you're not willing to look what you're eating in the eye, then maybe you shouldn't be eating it (see [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=200625|head cheese]).
First we will look at ovo-lacto vegetarians who pride themselves in consuming only animal products that don't harm the animal - eggs, milk, cheese, etc.
The bitter truth is these vegetarians are responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent calves as surely as if they had broiled them on the charcoal grill.
Here's how it works. To keep a cow in milk, she must drop a calf every year, which gives her a short rest from the milk mines. Immediately after the calf is dropped it is taken away and she's returned to labor in the mines.
Now, half those calves are female and can, after maturing and getting knocked up (by a squirt of "bull in a bottle"), join their mothers in the mines, but half are male. Bulls are dangerous, ill tempered and incompatible with each other so you can't just put them out to pasture even if you wanted to.
The male calves are also unwanted by the meat industry because they're dairy breeds, not meat breeds and wouldn't be at all economical to raise, so they're sent off to the veal factories. The veal factories feed them a "special diet" to keep the flesh white and confine them to limited movement. These are facts. Tales from the [link|http://www.noveal.org/|anti-veal folks] may or may not be exaggerated. The [link|http://www.vealstore.com/Content/Veal101Veal.aspx|Veal Industry's] story is different but the life of a "veal" is short and unpleasant no matter how you look at it.
Unfortunately this veal situation cannot be avoided if the ovo-lacto is to be provided with his/her favorite foods.
So become a Vegan? Well, that has a problem too.
Vegans are concerned with the well being of individual animals. Nature is and always has been extremely hard on individuals with the objective of survival of the species. In nature, individuals simply don't matter - they just increment a count in a statistic by one - individualism is strictly a human aberration.
Now some species have come up with the best "survival of the species" strategy ever - be domesticable and tasty and/or useful to humans. You think there would be even a tiny percentage of the current population of cows, pigs, sheep or chickens without this strategy?
If spotted owls had selected this path we'd be worrying about "owl control" now (well, on IWeThey we've sometimes been concerned with "Owl control", but most people aren't (sorry, I just couldn't (didn't want to) resist)).
So the Vegans want to sacrifice one of the greatest species survival strategies of all time for the benefit of a few individuals insignificant in nature's broader scheme, and percipitate the extinction of those species that have taken this path and are no longer viable in the wild.
This post is one of the side effects of my research on how to cut up a cow.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #201,634
4/2/05 10:34:14 AM
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That last bit has occurred to me too.
I think that Vegans would argue though that a species living in a factory environment isn't really living. If so, I think they've got a point.
Another issue is that lots of natural materials (e.g. leather, sheepskin) would likely be replaced by plastics or other manmade materials, increasing oil consumption and the like. Is it better or worse, from an ethical standpoint, to use all of the animal or to use artificial materials based on oil?
I don't think most of us will ever be able to return to the times of using all the parts of the buffalo, living off the land, etc. Perhaps "cows" will eventually be bred that don't have a cerebrum so they won't be regarded as being sentient, or something. I wonder if that would be better though, from an ethical standpoint...
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #201,635
4/2/05 10:55:18 AM
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Meet the meat
You've got it all backwards. We need to breed talking animals: "I know vegetables that are very clear on the point. Which is why it was eventually decided to cut through the whole tangled problem and breed an animal that actually wanted to be eaten and was capable of saying so clearly and distinctly."
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Post #201,639
4/2/05 11:25:12 AM
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ObHHGTTG scene at Milliways
[link|http://www.random.prima.de/www.random.prima.de/hhgttg.html|HHGTTG]: A large dairy animal approached Zaphod Beeblebrox's table, a large fat meaty quadruped of the bovine type with large watery eyes, small horns and what might almost have been an ingratiating smile on its lips.
"Good evening," it lowed and sat back heavily on its haunches, "I an the main Dish of the Day. May I interest you in parts of my body?" It harrumphed and gurgled a bit, wriggled its hindquaters into a more comfortable position and gazed peacefully at them.
Its gaze was met by looks of startled bewilderment from Arthur and Trillian, a resigned shrug from Ford Prefect and naked hunger from Zaphod Beeblebrox.
"Something off the shoulder perhaps?" suggested the animal. "Braised in a white wine sauce?"
"Er, your shoulder?" said Arthur in a horrified whisper.
"But naturally my shoulder, sir,"mooed the animal contentedly. "nobody else's is mine to offer."
Zaphod leapt to his feet and started prodding and feeling the animal's shoulder appreciatively.
"Or the rump is very good," murmed the animal. "I've been excercising it and eating plenty of grain, so there's a lot of good meat there." It gave a mellow grunt, gurgled again and started to cew the cud again.
"Or a casserole of me perhaps?" it added.
"You mean this animal actually wants us to eat it?" whispered Trillian to Ford.
"Me?" said Ford, with a glazed look in his eyes, "I don't mean anything."
"That's absolutely horrible," exclaimed Arthur, "the most revolting thing I've ever heard."
"What's the problem, Earthman?" said Zaphod, now transferring his attention to the animal's enormous rump.
"I just don't want to eat an animal that's standing there inviting me to," said Arthur, "it's heartless."
"Better than eating an animal that doesn't want to be eaten," said Zaphod.
"That's not the point," Arthur protested. Then he thought about it for a moment."All right," he said, "maybe it is the point. I don't care, I'm not going to think about it now. I'll just... er..."
The Universe raged about him in its death throes.
"I think I'll just have a green salad," he muttered.
"May I urge you to consider my liver?" asked the animal, "it must be very rich and tender by now, I've been force-feeding myself for months."
"A green salad," said Arthur
"A green salad?" said the animal, rolling his eyes disapprovingly at Arthur.
"Are you going to tell me," said Arthur, "that I shouldn't have a green salad?"
"Well," said the animal, "I know many vegetables that are very clear at this point. Which is why it was eventually decided to cut through the whole tangled problem and breed an animal that actually wanted to be eaten and was capable of saying so clearly and distinctly. And here I am."
It managed a very slight bow.
"Glass of water please," said Arthur.
"Look," said Zaphod, "we want to eat, we don't want to make a meal of issues. Four rare steaks please, and hurry. We haven't eaten in five hundred and seventy-six thousand million years."
The animal staggered to its feet. It gave a mellow gurgle."A very wise choice, sir, if I may say so. Very good," it said, "I'll just nip off and shoot myself."
He turned and gave a friendly wink to Arthur.
"Don't worry, sir" he said "I'll be very humane." Cheers, Scott.
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Post #201,637
4/2/05 11:05:56 AM
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Factory animal ethics.
Still a problem, because factory animals aren't survivable in the wild, they'd die of starvation or be eaten pretty much immediately. They aren't like wild animals. Most wild animals end up eaten by another animal or dying of starvation anyway - life expectancy is short.
I remember a report on chickens (forget if it was the Los Angeles Times or the Wall Street JOurnal). The journo visited a "free range chicken" farm and noticed the "free range" was empty and all the chickens were packed into the coop. The doors were all open. The farmer told him, "We can give them the space but we can't make them use it - they just like togetherness".
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #201,643
4/2/05 12:16:10 PM
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For me, it's not about ethics
I dont fit into any ethical category. I simply dont like meat. I dont like looking at a piece of meat and being able to determine the hemoglobin percentage in the muscle by the color of the meat. I dont like looking at those "little stringy things" knowing they are a particular nerve or artery. Even as a kid, when my mom told me the red liquid seeping out of the steak was "juice", I knew it was blood and I didnt want to eat it.
Every once in a while I'll eat ground turkey because the "parts" are indistinguishable and it's lean. Mostly I get my protein from legumes and dairy. I dont have a problem with dairy. No parts to identify.
A few weeks ago, after our whole head cheese debate, I took the kids out to dinner and order a steak. A nice steak covered in blue cheese sauce. I thought I'd give it a try. I took a few bites and that was it. I just couldnt do it. So I filled up on garlic mashed potatoes instead.
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Post #201,645
4/2/05 12:30:29 PM
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Know where you're coming from, but...
I'd much rather eat turkey cut right off the bird than the processed "turkey" lunch meat that's so common these days. There's no telling what's in that stuff. And most chicken and ham I see in the local Safeway seems to have ~ 5-10% water added. Even the NY strip steaks I made last night seemed to shrink a lot when they were cooked. Hmmm.
I don't mind hunks of beef, turkey, chicken, pork or fish flesh like that. Though I can often figure out where it came from, by the time I see it it has become a food product not an animal part. However, the idea of organ meat is very unappealing, and the taste of beef liver is revolting to me. Keep the fish heads far away from me, please, and don't ask me to kill or clean something before cooking it. That's not for me.
On the other hand, it's hard to beat a good hot dog. :-)
My wife is conflicted about meat. We feel the same way about processed turkey (especially when it has lots of that clear gelatiny stuff on it), but, like you, she doesn't like steaks either (though she will eat it when I occasionally fix it). She prefers chicken and fish (e.g. mahi-mahi aka dolphin fish) to beef (unless it's a good hamburger) and doesn't like pork (reminds her of Babe too much).
Different strokes I guess.
I don't think there are many Americans as adventurous as Andrew when it comes to food. That's probably a good thing. :-)
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #201,661
4/2/05 3:00:57 PM
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Urg. You've been processed out of the food chain.
I don't mind hunks of beef, turkey, chicken, pork or fish flesh like that. Though I can often figure out where it came from, by the time I see it it has become a food product not an animal part. That's a disconcerting viewpoint. Your brain has been washed clean of your own body's needs. Mass food-processing came into being for convenience, and we've turned it into a value-system...? Shudder.
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Post #201,675
4/2/05 5:38:20 PM
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Maybe I wasn't clear.
Or maybe I was. :-/ Your brain has been washed clean of your own body's needs. Mass food-processing came into being for convenience, and we've turned it into a value-system...? I don't understand why I left that impression. Whenever I eat animal parts, I know in my head that an animal died to make that possible. I just don't dwell on it. I don't think about the animal when I have a steak. Not to be flippant but, if I thought about the animal or the farmer or the worker in the field or ... everytime I had something to eat or thought about food, well I wouldn't have time to think of anything else. I don't think about a good filet mignon steak as being part of a rib-cage muscle of a bovine creature even though I know that's what it is. I don't really think about an apple as being the fruit of a tree either. It's just an apple even though I know the fruit of a tree. It's not a value system exactly, it's just the way it is from my point of view. I don't think about food in spiritual terms either. Sorry. Can you elaborate on what your impression of my post was? Cheers, Scott.
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Post #201,712
4/3/05 4:14:00 AM
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Implication that thinking so was wrong somehow
Are you saying you don't think about that hunk of flesh as being part of the animal because that's somehow distasteful? That's the part that I find odd--humans being squeamish about eating other animals, since we're the self-declared top of the food chain. You'd think we'd revel in it.
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Post #201,713
4/3/05 9:01:01 AM
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Partially.
It's partially that I don't feel the need to think about where it came from (as discussed above), and partially that I just don't want to go there due to the potentially distasteful aspects. ("If you're squeemish about organ meat, why aren't you a Vegan? How can you be a Vegan and support extinction for domesticated animals? Soy will turn you into a girly man. Humans are natural omnivores - eating only vegetables will give you gas and cause problems down the road. Soy hotdogs only taste good because they pump them full of artificial flavors. Etc.") I generally regard food as something I appreciate, and I enjoy the very occassional extravagent meal, but food generally isn't a big deal for me. Even at Thanksgiving, I don't "revel" in food too much. It seems over-the-top and wasteful these days. [link|http://en.thinkexist.com/quotation/moderation-which_consists_in_an_indifference/218322.html|Plato]: "Moderation, which consists in an indifference about little things, and in a prudent and well-proportioned zeal about things of importance, can proceed from nothing but true knowledge, which has its foundation in self-acquaintance."
Plato quotes (Ancient Greek philosopher. 428 BC-348 BC) YMMV. ;-) Cheers, Scott.
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Post #201,669
4/2/05 4:19:16 PM
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Serendipity strikes again!
Just stopped by my local grocery and knew in an instant these were there just for you. They are now in a pot happily simmering, or at least simmering as happily as dead fish heads can.
[image|http://www.aaxnet.com/ajg/sf_fishhead01.jpg||||]
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #201,671
4/2/05 4:41:02 PM
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How Roly Poly!
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #201,674
4/2/05 5:35:53 PM
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They're certainly not playing the drums!
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #201,676
4/2/05 5:39:35 PM
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Eat them up, yum! ___________________________________Or not.
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Post #201,694
4/2/05 8:21:37 PM
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I managed to "mechanically separate" . . .
. . better than a pound and a half of good pink salmon meat from those heads and the bones under them. I can use it to make a salmon spread or something - have to look for a recipe.
The rest is back in the pot with some vegetables, white wine, herbs and vinegar simmering into fish stock which I'll clarify tonight and freeze.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #201,695
4/2/05 8:35:15 PM
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Reminds me of a friend in middle school.
He would quite often bring [link|http://www.netecon.com/html/bouillab.htm|bouillabaisse] his mother made to lunch in a thermos. It always smelled rather icky to me, but it looked interesting.
Those must have been some giant heads to get ~ 24 oz flesh out of them!
I'm sure you'll make quite a tasty dish from those various fish parts. After all, if it didn't taste good people wouldn't eat it (if they had a choice).
Enjoy! No need to save any for me though. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #201,697
4/2/05 8:50:04 PM
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Well actually . . .
. . it was one head split in half, but there were some pretty good lumps of meat in the back end. Folded up under the head was the entire skelleton of the salmon except the tail and that's where most of the meat came from. The ribs are thick on a fish that large so the knife had to miss a fair amount. The whole tray was 5 pounds and sold at $0.99/#.
I got it at a Korean grocery down the street which has excellent seafood at a wide range of prices and very high end beef cuts at very high prices.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #204,817
4/25/05 10:37:35 PM
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Imric, Admin and Another Scott
are familiar with Barnes & Barnes classic song "Fish Heads". Will wonders never cease?
lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #204,821
4/25/05 11:39:32 PM
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Dr. Demento was everywhere... :-)
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Post #204,875
4/26/05 1:45:43 PM
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keyword: "WAS"
Thanks to Clear Channel, over a dozen stations that used to play him last year don't this year. Heaven forbid that a station doesn't fall into the generic claptrap formula for Top 40 junk that CC demands once they do a hostile takeover of station after station.
lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #204,822
4/26/05 1:16:50 AM
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Add one more.
Obscure Dimento tracks r us :-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
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Post #204,837
4/26/05 10:10:34 AM
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The rolly polly fish heads?
Guess it's [link|http://lyrics.opendb.net/lyrics/Fish%20Heads/202333|roly poly]. I remember the song and the video for it.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #204,838
4/26/05 10:16:18 AM
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Bill Paxton & Bill Mummy?!?!
Never knew they were involved with the [link|http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0218976/|Fish Heads video] before now.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #204,856
4/26/05 12:41:20 PM
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I used to fantasize
about marrying Billy Mummy when I was a little girl. I thought he was hot. :-P
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Post #204,876
4/26/05 1:48:51 PM
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typo - it's Bill Mumy
child actor on "Lost in Space" and last seen in "Babylon 5"
lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
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Post #201,752
4/3/05 5:48:40 PM
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The final outcome.
I have a 3 pound billet of clarified and defatted fish stock in the freezer. Salmon's a little strong as fish stock, but it'll do. For the 1-1/2 pounds of recovered salmon meat: Salmon Paté | 1/2 # | Salmon meat | | 4 oz | Cream Cheese | | 1 T | Lemon juice | | 1/4 t | Salt | | 1 oz | Onion | | 1/2 T | Horseradish |
Puré all together (sharp blade of your food processor) T=Tablespoon t=teaspoon. Great for spreading on crackers, toast, or whatever have you. Now some may consider this recipe a little bit rich - it isn't - it's a lot more than a little bit. For those who fear decadence I present another recipe - thinner, but definitely lower in calories. Salmon Paté Lite | 1/2 # | Salmon meat | | 1/2 cup | Cottage Cheese | | 1 T | Yogurt | | 2 t | Lemon juice | | 1/4 t | Salt | | 1 oz | Onion | | 1/2 T | Horseradish |
Puré all together (sharp blade of your food processor) T=Tablespoon t=teaspoon. [link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #201,756
4/3/05 7:57:47 PM
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Oh screw that
What's the point of salmon pat\ufffd if you're going to count the damn calories. If you're dieting, eat a damn carrot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #201,760
4/3/05 8:45:44 PM
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Which is exactly why . . .
. . I only made a little of the low calorie one just to see if it was edible. The bulk of the salmon went into the rocket fuel version.
Breakfast tomorrow will be toasted black bread spread with salmon paté and topped with a poached egg.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #201,829
4/4/05 12:13:06 PM
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And here we have it!
A luxury breakfast made from fish heads and bones. Not bad.
[image|http://www.aaxnet.com/ajg/sv_eggsalmon02.jpg||||]
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #201,838
4/4/05 12:37:37 PM
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You have that kind of time in the morning
to make a breakfast like that? I'm lucky to chow down a breakfast bar and a cup of coffee!!
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Post #201,840
4/4/05 12:39:59 PM
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Andrew has a very short commute.
Alex
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell
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Post #201,841
4/4/05 12:45:16 PM
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Get up earlier, then.
I'm usually up and at 'em by 0530.
I cannot tolerate having to rush around in the morning.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #201,843
4/4/05 1:03:20 PM
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I cannot tolerate too little sleep
I'm a real witch if I dont get my 8 hours. Guess I'd rather be perky and eat a crappy breakfast.
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Post #201,844
4/4/05 1:08:04 PM
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I don't do perky in under 9.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #201,852
4/4/05 1:52:14 PM
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s/ in under 9//
-YendorMike
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
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Post #201,856
4/4/05 2:38:41 PM
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Given opportunity, I'm quite sure that admin would do perky!
Although, as he said, she has to be 9 or over. :-P
Cheers,
Ben
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #201,859
4/4/05 2:59:07 PM
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These are your words, and not mine...
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #201,860
4/4/05 3:01:00 PM
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"Plausible deniability" Uh huh.
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #201,915
4/5/05 12:57:10 AM
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Go to bed earlier, then.
Carpe diem, and all that.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #201,920
4/5/05 2:02:10 AM
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In order to be able to rise at 05-frigging-30 ???
You must be out of yer fooking mind!
Getting up at 05:30 isn't "carpe diem", it's carpe middle-of-the-fucking-nightem.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #201,926
4/5/05 2:55:53 AM
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You'll notice those who rise at 5:30am are very healthy . .
. . because all who weren't healthy that tried that died.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #201,928
4/5/05 3:06:13 AM
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Yer gettin' old.
Well, middle-aged; once you hit old age (i.e. the week after next), you'll be up before god :-)
Coffee, papers and breakfast is not an affair to be rushed.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #201,942
4/5/05 8:07:22 AM
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Old??? Bah, whippersnapper -- until just a few years ago...
...I was more likely to *go to bed* at that time, than to get up out of it!
Seems more like it's *you* who are old -- you may be younger than me, chronologically, but you *live* like some old fart.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #201,943
4/5/05 8:11:39 AM
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"When ah were a lad..."
Sure sign of impending wrinkly-dom.
I get up early because I *can*, not because I *have to*. (I leave the house at 7 and have been known to rise at 6.45 [5 min shower|5min shave/clean teeth|5 min get dressed and take 1 slurp of coffee]) when the previous night's quaffing has had deleterious effects)
Sleep is for the weak, anyway.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #201,951
4/5/05 8:50:57 AM
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What ezz thees...
"Sleep" you spake of?
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"] No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
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Post #201,973
4/5/05 10:44:20 AM
|
That stands befo-ore me
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #201,974
4/5/05 10:44:49 AM
|
Figure in black that points at me?
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #202,031
4/5/05 3:50:02 PM
|
HA! Great!
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"] No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
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Post #202,117
4/5/05 9:12:49 PM
|
not to be rushed for sure,
but at your desk in the office
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #202,035
4/5/05 4:06:48 PM
|
Hey, BTW!
[link|http://www.comics.com/comics/monty/archive/monty-20050402.html|Speaking of which]...
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #202,039
4/5/05 4:18:48 PM
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:-)
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Post #201,847
4/4/05 1:35:47 PM
|
Re: You have that kind of time in the morning?
You might not believe just how little time this took and how little attention. Just a couple walk-bys in the kitchen while sipping coffee and reading the morning papers.
I admit a flexible breakfast time is one of the few advantages of self employment, and it's good to have a decent breakfast because I very seldom have time for lunch.
And of course not having kids helps a whole lot. As for sleep, it varies from 5 hours to 10, but mostly around 7.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #202,563
4/8/05 10:44:38 PM
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Another breakfast - (bionerd safe).
Had this the last two days, but I'm out of eggs so it'll be something else tomorrow. [link|http://www.aaxnet.com/clove/recipes/jsd_omlaspara1.html|Asparagus Raft Omelet]
[image|http://www.aaxnet.com/clove/recipes/img/jsd_omlaspara1c.jpg||||]
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #202,628
4/9/05 2:33:03 PM
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A) ObSpellNit: "supErb" B) Step 3, "RUN" - where to and why?
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Post #202,634
4/9/05 3:26:36 PM
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It was there just for you :)
As for "Run", I'm a firm believer in mis en place, so my recipes are divided into a "prep" (compile) section that can be done well in advance (often even days), and a "run time" section containing the steps that must be done just before serving.
Now a young man entertaining a lady should not resort to this method - it frightens women something awful to see a guy turn out complex dishes with so little apparent effort and they'll do a "Doug the Engineer" on you. It's necessary under those circumstances to get in trouble and need some help.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #202,636
4/9/05 3:41:30 PM
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See, that's my problem
It's hard enough not jumping in when my mother-in-law is busily drying out a standing rib roast. To pretend I don't know something I'm actually quite good at just ain't going to happen.
Fortunately, I'm no longer trying to impress young women.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #202,677
4/10/05 12:18:37 AM
|
Actually, "mis en place" is dangerous with older women too.
They're kind of burned out on cooking, so after seeing you do a couple of apparently effortless meals it'll be "oh, but you're so much better at it" and you're stuck with all the cooking.
On the other hand, she can often be trained to wash all the dishes and stuff afterwards as a sex avoidance ploy. If you've served yourself enough wine you'll be long asleep by time she's done and showered - so she's home free and can get a good night's sleep.
Of course, if you've not servered yourself too much wine, you're going to be well rested in the morning and horney as a hoot owl and she's in trouble.
Actually, she's probably well rested too, and still half asleep and won't really mind that much.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #202,708
4/10/05 3:12:53 PM
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Is this your experience with...
...with Rose (not her real name (also not her real name)) speaking?
Just wondering, you know... Wondering how you're going to explain this to her: Are you A) plastering your normal experience with *her* all over the Internet, or are you B) gathering this kind of experience with *another* woman?
Good luck with this one, Gryge! ;^>
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #202,714
4/10/05 3:27:36 PM
4/10/05 3:30:49 PM
|
I hope you don't really expect a response . . .
Actually, Rose (not her real name (also not her real name)) is too busy digging through the political stuff to read this forum anyway.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #202,802
4/11/05 2:03:18 AM
|
That doesn't work either
Ever since I worked in a restaurant, I can't cook without cleaning as I go. By the time I'm plating the food, there's only the one or two last pans to clean, and they're either wiped out or soaking before I sit down to eat. I'd actually rather do the cooking myself than have to clean up someone else's mess.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #202,803
4/11/05 2:09:58 AM
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Yeahbut . . .
There's still the plates , wine glasses silverware and that sort of thing. Women can take a lot of time on that stuff if there's no automatic dishwasher.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #202,804
4/11/05 2:24:44 AM
|
Good point
And if it were up to me we wouldn't waste cabinet space on a diswasher.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #202,826
4/11/05 9:09:33 AM
4/11/05 9:21:11 AM
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You're way off base again
I would gladly do the dishes in exchange for a fine meal (even a mediocre meal), and the faster I got done, the faster I could move on to thanking him.
You're hanging out with the wrong women.
Edited by bionerd
April 11, 2005, 09:21:11 AM EDT
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Post #202,847
4/11/05 10:50:47 AM
|
Well, that's what people tell me . .
. . but when I ask where these "right" women hang out, they just look up at the ceiling and say, "You just have to go out there and find them". In other words, they haven't a clue where any might be either.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #202,862
4/11/05 11:55:59 AM
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Guess we're in the same boat.
I dont know where the right men hang out, either.
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Post #202,876
4/11/05 1:06:54 PM
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You two should get a room :-P
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #202,877
4/11/05 1:10:01 PM
4/11/05 1:10:24 PM
|
Couldn't have said it better myself:)
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by jake123
April 11, 2005, 01:10:24 PM EDT
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Post #202,881
4/11/05 1:46:02 PM
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Whew!
In the last week I've been advised to get a room with Folkert, Nightowl and now Andrew. If I heeded your advice I'd be a very busy woman. ;-P
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Post #202,882
4/11/05 1:47:30 PM
|
But you've been complaining how un-busy you are...
-YendorMike
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
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Post #202,884
4/11/05 2:03:40 PM
|
It has become a meme :-)
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
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Post #202,941
4/12/05 12:36:32 AM
|
I'm wondering why you're keeping track. :-)
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #202,825
4/11/05 9:03:17 AM
4/11/05 9:20:28 AM
|
You're kidding me, right?
IMO, there is nothing sexier than a man who knows his way around the kitchen, especially since I hate to cook. It's wonderful to lounge with a glass of wine watching a man do his thing. It makes a gal feel pampered.
Edited by bionerd
April 11, 2005, 09:20:28 AM EDT
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Post #202,834
4/11/05 9:48:17 AM
|
This is why...
...I've taken to preparing meals for the family on Sunday. I love to cook, but during the week, I work until at least 5. My fiancee gets to stay home and take care of everyone (me plus her (well, our) two kids.) Part of that is cooking, even if it's just ANOTHER job for her to do. So I give her Sundays off from the cooking dutiees, and it gets me a chance to cook for the whole family. It's good to teach the kids (two boys) that Men Can Cook, Too.
-YendorMike
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
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Post #202,846
4/11/05 10:46:53 AM
|
Yes, but we know you're not normal -
you post on IWeThey.
Women love to bitch about men not sharing the cooking, and may even have convinced themselves of that, but it's rarely true. Most women consider the kitchen their power base and their cooking a major leverage over their men and are uncomfortable yielding that leverage.
Wise men stay away and restrict their cooking to throwing slabs of raw cow over hot coals and "improving" it by brushing on some potion that ruins it - after which they beat their chests and boast of their grilling prowess. Regardless of what they say, this is what most women want.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #202,855
4/11/05 11:26:15 AM
|
Not mine
I do all the cooking... at least when we lived together. Since I'm far far more competent than she is in the kitchen (she can burn water) it's just been better that way.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #202,865
4/11/05 12:09:05 PM
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Don't agree
Well, that's not true for the circles I move in, anyhow.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
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Post #202,875
4/11/05 1:05:24 PM
|
I think this is one of those "american culture" things.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #202,885
4/11/05 2:32:59 PM
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Nah. Some do, some don't
My wife and I are both rather good cooks. She's more traditional, as in the way her mother used to do it. I tend to experiment more. Depending on what we are making, we sometimes even cooperate, but not very often. I do a lot of the prep work for her if I'm around.
We have friends who are like Andrew described.
Other friends just regard food as fuel and don't really care if it was nicely prepared or dumped from a can.
It's hard to generalize.
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Post #202,904
4/11/05 5:13:41 PM
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Sweeping generalisations 'r' us...
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
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Post #202,908
4/11/05 6:21:43 PM
|
Well, how else . . .
. . are we able to offend the maximum number of people with the minimum effort? Efficiency counts!
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #201,833
4/4/05 12:21:19 PM
|
Hmmmm, my wife would like those...
and very likely she would make soup with the heads, too.
When she was in SF yesterday buying half of a yellow feather chicken she asked for the head and feet. I let her eat them, although someday I'll try chewing on chicken feet.
Tony
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Post #201,863
4/4/05 3:06:51 PM
|
ICLRPD
"someday I'll try chewing on chicken feet."
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #201,875
4/4/05 5:18:57 PM
4/4/05 5:19:33 PM
|
And someday I won't
Hey, look at that. That day is today. And tomorrow is looking good for a repeat performance.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
Edited by drewk
April 4, 2005, 05:19:33 PM EDT
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Post #201,876
4/4/05 5:23:05 PM
|
You gotta get yourself out on Sunday to have some
dim sum. Very good food, and yes, it includes chicken feet. Lotsa tiny bones, but tasty nonetheless.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #201,878
4/4/05 6:01:44 PM
|
Well, spicy is good, too
at least my wife likes spicy chicken feet as a snack, and they are easy to find here (e.g. Lion, Ranch 99, and Marina supermarkets, and of course in San Francisco they're cheaper and better quality).
Dim sum is very good, although it helps to eat it with some one who speaks Chinese.
Tony
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Post #201,881
4/4/05 6:32:50 PM
|
That's the truth
Chinese restaurants (ie- restaurants that are owned and operated by Chinese people, in contrast to "Chinese Restaurants" a la Ho-Lee Chow) have two menus; one for those who can speak the lingo, and one for those that can't.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #201,884
4/4/05 6:58:48 PM
|
No, there's one printed menu
for non-Chinese speakers (normal Western style menu), and the Chinese only specials hand-written on paper that's posted on the wall (if the restaurant isn't fancy), and the specials you have to ask for (e.g. special New Year's noodles). I'm sure if you knew what to ask for they'd give you the specials, but first you have to know...
At least, that's what I've seen in Chinese restaurants for Chinese people. But, it helps having Chinese friends and a Chinese wife.
Tony
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Post #201,905
4/4/05 9:54:39 PM
|
Love to be able, but I don't have a Chinese wife
Can I borrow yours?
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #201,906
4/4/05 10:05:48 PM
|
No way!
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Post #201,655
4/2/05 2:04:36 PM
|
There is simply no reason to eat stuff you don't like.
There are plenty of ways to get the nutrition you need so long as you don't go off on some nut-hatch guru preached "natural diet" or something. We have to eat, no way around it, so we might as well enjoy it to the max.
Now when I started being a vegetarian things looked grim. I was really concerned about getting enough protein and all the vegetarian literature said you had to have exactly the right mix of proteins at the same meal or they were worthless - and they recommended some pretty uninteresting dishes to assure that mix.
Of course it was bull byproducts all around. The then recomended dose of protein was dangerously high and was soon reduced but it's still way too high, and getting exactly the right mix at the same meal was more of the same. You've got around 8 hours and that's plenty.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #201,682
4/2/05 6:24:15 PM
|
Three words for you
Mechanically Recovered Meat
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #201,689
4/2/05 7:38:08 PM
|
I fail to be horrified by that.
What does it matter if you're removing meat the knife can't get with a stainless steel wire brush instead? You're going to puree it anyway. Yes, you get microscopic bone particles and cartilage with the meat, but most people need more calcium than they're getting anyway.
If you boiled the bones down for a tasty soup stock you'd get most of the the same stuff and even more. I just don't see the horror.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #201,995
4/5/05 12:15:35 PM
|
On vegetarian pets
[link|http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/archive/getfuzzy-20050405.html|http://www.comics.co...zzy-20050405.html] Anybody is a vegetarian if you stop giving them meat. ===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #202,050
4/5/05 4:48:32 PM
|
My dog eats carrots
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Post #202,166
4/6/05 10:17:52 AM
|
So do mine
Of course, I had to convince them that they weren't supposed to have carrots, but just this once...
Now baby carrots are one of their main treats. Pretzels are another. Pretty much anything with meat in it gains their undivided attention though...
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Post #202,077
4/5/05 6:58:46 PM
|
My DOGS will eat Veggies only when...
cooked in a crock pot with MEAT all day.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"] No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
|
Post #202,094
4/5/05 7:50:06 PM
|
Spoiled little girly dogs...........
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Post #202,177
4/6/05 11:04:26 AM
|
Why, yes, how did you know?
Rusty is a Brittany Spaniel. Not forward, been very un-aggressiuve from the start. Since he was "fixed", we have a teasing name for him, due to his ability to fold his paws down and other things: Rusty, the Gay Brittany Spaniel, with Allergies The second one is a Weimaraner/Boxer mix, she has been fixed as well... Bryn is forward with lotsa energy. Pretty much the butch dog of the family. So yes, Girly dogs would be right in both aspects of the term. -- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwethey[link|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Military Intelligence"] No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]
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Post #202,150
4/6/05 6:22:02 AM
|
Know cats that eat asparagus, broccoli - readily.
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Post #202,164
4/6/05 10:10:53 AM
|
anything dropped disappeared
Pumpkin Pie Spice*, the dog I had while growing up, would eat anything that dropped on the floor. My mom accidently knocked half an onion on the floor once while preparing dinner. Pumpkin gagged it down.
*We got her around Thanksgiving one year.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://spiceware.org/gallery/ArtisticOverpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #202,169
4/6/05 10:32:08 AM
|
Mine doesn't like bananna.
She loves bread and likes most vegetables. She isn't quite sure about apples but is developing a taste for them. She doesn't like oranges too much.
Any dairy product she goes nuts over - ice cream, yogurt, cheese, etc. Crackers, pretzels, popcorn, etc. are a weakness too.
And she likes tomato sauce products too.
[link|http://www.gregfolkert.net/pics/iwethey/GreenEyedLady.jpeg|She]'s quite an omnivore. :-)
Her diet is mostly IAMS in the blue bag (weight control), with a little of IAMS canned stuff mixed in. She only gets *tiny* bits of the other stuff.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #202,170
4/6/05 10:32:28 AM
|
My ex-wife's cat went nuts over any type of bread.
I had a yellow lab who would eat pretty much anything that even *looked* like it might have come from our table.
Then one day I handed him a lemon.
It was afterwards that I finally, fully understood the term "bust a gut laughing".
-----------------------------------------
"In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for. As for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican."
-- H. L. Mencken
Support our troops, Impeach Bush.
D. D. Richards
|
