So what? There were other people there before *that*!

Post #18,751 by CRConrad 11/19/01 10:14:10 AM Reply	So what? There were other people there before that! If anyone should have a moral right to the territory of Palestine (or as some call it, "Israel" -- but that's not what it was known as for those two thousand years, nor even before that!), it should obviously, by your own logic, be the (descendants of the) Ur-Canaanites! The evil Canaanaite-butchering Jews should, in view of that little piece of history, not be allowed to profit territorially from their (attempted?) genocide -- perhaps the first instance of such, at least the first historically recorded one ("The Mother of All Genocides", I'm sure they'd call it, if some other Middle-Eastern Semite bloke hadn't come up with that idiom first...). Their having "prayed" thrice a day for a couple millennia is of course neither here nor there -- except, if anything, as even more cause not to let them have it: It is nothing but a celebration of their victory (=genocide of the Ur-Canaanites), a horrendous crowing over the blood of the dispossessed that can only serve to further DIS-qualify them from ever being allowed to enjoy the fruits of their vicious blood-lust. There, that's what you get if you want to base the strength of your claim on how old it is. Sheesh... Are you really so stupid that that wasn't obvious, even long before you tried it?!? No wonder, then, that your argumentation is so reminiscent in style of that of the Serbs in regards to Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo: It's just as brain-dead, too! Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #18,779 by bluke 11/19/01 11:52:39 AM Reply	Do you know any Ur-Canaanites? I don't. Those nations ceased to exist at some point and therefore thereis no one to claim the land. The jews on the other hand have not, and have had a continous presence in Israel for thousands of years.
Post #18,800 by CRConrad 11/19/01 1:03:40 PM Reply	For suitably twisted values of "cease" and "continous". More droppings from BS-Looke: [Do you know any Ur-Canaanites?] I don't. Oh, I think I possibly do -- in which case, you know even more. You see, I don't think your semi-neolithic ancestors were 100% efficient in their genocide (Hey, I freely admit even mine weren't, and they were industrialised and everything!)... So some of the folks who were there before them, probably hung around after their arrival too. Or do you have some other explanation of where all those Samaritans, and other such peoples your holy books are full of, came from? And then, later on, after the Romans came, then began the Diaspora. The Jews left, History tells us... Does it say anything about what the non-Jews in the area did? The Romans didn't pull a Carthage on the whole country, did they -- "kill every living thing, sow the Earth with salt", that routine? So they probably just staid put, I'd guess... And that's your Ur-Canaanites right there: The Palestinians. Those nations ceased to exist at some point and therefore thereis no one to claim the land. Oh, those NATIONS "ceased to exist"...? You mean, like the NATION of Israel did, two thousand years ago? The jews on the other hand have not, and have had a continous presence in Israel for thousands of years. Not as a nation they haven't; no more than the Ur-Canaanites. Just a scattered splinter of a people, getting assimilated into / assimilating into itself the surrounding culture, like any other such scattered splinter of a people has always done. Funny how in your book, that counts as "continous presence" (for a "nation", no less...) -- while pretty much the exact same thing happening to the people who have their dicks uncut counter-clockwise in stead of clockwise, or whateverthefuck, counts as "ceased to exist". Now, if you want to be adamant that the Palestinians aren't the descendants of the Ur-Canaanites... AND at the same time, you want to claim that "a nation" of Jews lived on in Palestine after the Diaspora... Then what do you think would have happened to that "nation" about half a millennium later, with the rise of Islam? Well, what happened to EVERY fucking other people that wave rolled over? (And spare us the "JHVH fixed it somehow" craplications, OK? We're talking history here, not superstition-based fables.) Yup, that's right... They converted. So if the Palestinians aren't descended from the Ur-Canaanites, and thus vicitims of attempted genocide by the Israelites for the SECOND time... Then they must be descended from the Israelites themselves, for all I can see -- and thus the vicitims of attempted FRATRI-genocide by the Israelites' other descendants! That's your precious "nation" for you: The Mothers Of All Genocidists -- either repeat killers, or brother-slayers. Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #18,917 by bluke 11/20/01 3:19:00 AM Reply	I feel sorry for you It seems that you have a guilt complex about the holocaust and want to assuage your guilt by calling the Jews "The Mothers Of All Genocidist", after all if the Jews did it first the Nazis can't be that bad.
Post #18,957 by CRConrad 11/20/01 12:16:27 PM Reply	Bingo! I was pretty sure that little hook would work; that that was precisely what you were going to answer. Unfortunately -- for you, that is -- I think that reply says a lot more about you, than about me. Can you think of any other reasons I would have looked for that particular response...? Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything

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