Post #175,202
9/20/04 2:55:05 PM
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I guess it all depends on what's
"plain text" to you. To me it's plain that "The Lord" in this means God. To you, it's some mysterious "owner". Ok, taking your interpretation for a second, are _you_, personally, an "owner" of anybody? If not, then it's not yours to punish. If yes, I'd like to hear an explanation.
--
... a reference to Presidente Arbusto.
-- [link|http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001417.html|Geoffrey K. Pullum]
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Post #175,205
9/20/04 3:06:59 PM
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I could be wrong about this, but I think "case"
is significant here. Here's the whole thing (AFAIK):
41. Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42. And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portions of meat in due season?
43. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44. Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45. But if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and be drunken;
46. The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut in sunder, and will appoint his portion with the unbelievers.
47. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
[link|http://members.cox.net/rev.claude/prbl04.htm|http://members.cox.n...claude/prbl04.htm]
See, they switched case. So, maybe the "owner" thing is appropriate after all and here the Bible okays slave owners beating their upity slaves as hard as "unbelievers".
bcnu,
Mikem
"The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism."
-Ted Grant
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Post #175,206
9/20/04 3:12:54 PM
9/20/04 3:13:18 PM
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It's a parable
"lord" certainly means "Lord" here (edit: but not literally). The "master" "will appoint his portion with the unbelievers"? Unbelievers in what - his masterly persona? Nope, it's obviously a parable: if human master punsishes his slave (servant?) who "say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and be drunken", the Lord above will do same with His servants who He left in authority. If anything, this is a piece of subversive anti-establishment propaganda.
--
... a reference to Presidente Arbusto.
-- [link|http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001417.html|Geoffrey K. Pullum]
Edited by Arkadiy
Sept. 20, 2004, 03:13:18 PM EDT
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Post #175,220
9/20/04 3:43:11 PM
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Re: It's a parable
Very well defended, Arkadiy!
I couldn't have said it better.
And to add one other things, most of the described "atrocities" Mmoffitt refers to happened in the Old Testament and or New Testament before Christ came with the New Covenant. When the New Covenant replaced the old one, most of the things those "believers" were required to do, (such as blood sacrifices for example), were no longer required or expected.
Nightowl >8#
"It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends."
(Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
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Post #175,372
9/21/04 9:27:32 AM
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"New Covenant" hmmmmmmm.....
That's where Christians co-opted "The Chosen People" for themselves and took the moniker away from the Jews, right? And this isn't about "supremacy" - Feh!
bcnu,
Mikem
"The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism."
-Ted Grant
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Post #175,396
9/21/04 11:38:40 AM
9/21/04 11:40:13 AM
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Ooops -- ignore.. moving to religion as requested
Nothing to see here
"It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends."
(Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
Edited by Nightowl
Sept. 21, 2004, 11:40:13 AM EDT
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Post #175,399
9/21/04 11:41:00 AM
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I have no idea what you're talking about (new thread)
Created as new thread #175398 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=175398|I have no idea what you're talking about]
"It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends."
(Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
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Post #175,221
9/20/04 3:46:09 PM
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The "unbelievers" are a class.
...will cut in sunder, and will appoint his portion with the unbelievers.
I'm not clear on what "appoint his portion" means, but it is clear that within this text the "unbelievers" are of lower class. Which is precisely and example of what imric has been beating me up for.
bcnu,
Mikem
"The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism."
-Ted Grant
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Post #175,225
9/20/04 3:50:28 PM
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How is that clear?
I'm not clear on what "appoint his portion" means, but it is clear that within this text the "unbelievers" are of lower class. Which is precisely and example of what imric has been beating me up for. Huh? Not so. It doesn't make it clear that unbelievers are of lower class, only that he chose the unbelievers over the believers. That's just a conscious choice, just like choosing one team over another, or one political party over another ... it doesn't always mean one is lower class than another, just the choice the chooser made. So in this case, he chooses to appoint his portion with the team or party of believers, rather than the team or party of unbelievers. Nightowl >8#
"It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends."
(Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
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Post #175,282
9/20/04 5:56:31 PM
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Oh my. A class.
Can't you take the word for what it means? Unbeliever, AKA kiafir - one who does not believe in God. Nothing to do with class.
"Appoint his portion" means "assign his fate" or some such AFAIK.
The text is saying that abusive boss is no better than unbeliever, and shall be punished by God. Do you disagree with my interpretation?
--
... a reference to Presidente Arbusto.
-- [link|http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001417.html|Geoffrey K. Pullum]
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Post #175,290
9/20/04 6:21:25 PM
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Psssst! Don't tell Bryce.....
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #175,291
9/20/04 6:24:15 PM
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Remember, the meek shall inherit the earth...
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #175,295
9/20/04 6:43:10 PM
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And what did poor bastards do to deserver such fate?
--
... a reference to Presidente Arbusto.
-- [link|http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001417.html|Geoffrey K. Pullum]
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Post #175,311
9/20/04 9:17:15 PM
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6' deep 6' long and 4' wide
These miserable swine, having nothing but illusions to live on, marshmallows for the soul in place of good meat, will now stoop to any disgusting level to prevent even those miserable morsels from vanishing into thin air. The country is being destroyed by these stupid, vicious right-wing fanatics, the spiritual brothers of the brownshirts and redstars, collectivists and authoritarians all, who would not know freedom if it bit them on the ass, who spend all their time trying to stamp, bludgeon, and eviscerate the very idea of the individual's right to his own private world. DRL
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #175,315
9/20/04 9:37:45 PM
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4' wide??????
I don't know of any single grave that is 4 feet wide. Family plots maybe, but not single graves. And most are longer than 6 feet, also. ;)
Nightowl >8#
"It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends."
(Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
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Post #175,378
9/21/04 9:37:24 AM
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take a measuring tape to your next funeral 4' wide
These miserable swine, having nothing but illusions to live on, marshmallows for the soul in place of good meat, will now stoop to any disgusting level to prevent even those miserable morsels from vanishing into thin air. The country is being destroyed by these stupid, vicious right-wing fanatics, the spiritual brothers of the brownshirts and redstars, collectivists and authoritarians all, who would not know freedom if it bit them on the ass, who spend all their time trying to stamp, bludgeon, and eviscerate the very idea of the individual's right to his own private world. DRL
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #175,401
9/21/04 11:42:40 AM
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Was just at a wake (new thread)
Created as new thread #175400 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=175400|Was just at a wake]
"It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends."
(Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
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Post #175,317
9/20/04 9:48:53 PM
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And it's Christian thing to share...
graves, especially if it's for the Kosovars. Ask the Serbs.
Alex
"If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." -- Philip K. Dick, US science fiction writer
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Post #175,332
9/20/04 11:18:01 PM
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Okay, that's it
Can you guys move this to religion/metaphysics, please?
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #175,334
9/20/04 11:24:44 PM
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Well, we tried earlier
And got some of it there, but the rest seems to be hanging on here.
But if I respond to it anymore, I'll move it again, ok?
Brenda
Nightowl >8#
"It's not where a person stands in time of comfort and security, but rather where they stand in times of strife and controversy that determine true friends."
(Quote sent to me by a true friend, author unknown).
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Post #175,357
9/21/04 3:13:26 AM
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YOU ALL SUCK
Blimey. If you can't get a bad OO pun, then y'all need to go back to humour school.
Bryce? Inheritance? Geddit?
Sigh.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #176,048
9/23/04 10:56:58 PM
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Oddly enough, I got it (new thread)
Created as new thread #176047 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=176047|Oddly enough, I got it]
"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift
[link|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268|I am from District 268].
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Post #175,428
9/21/04 1:07:16 PM
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Since when was Bryce meek?
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
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Post #175,370
9/21/04 9:24:21 AM
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Almost, but not quite.
The text is saying that abusive boss is no better than unbeliever, and shall be punished by God. Do you disagree with my interpretation?
Not the boss, the slave. The slave is the one to be punished as much as the "unbeliever". This isn't about punishing the boss, it is about punishing the slave for goofing off while the boss was away. 46. The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut in sunder, and will appoint his portion with the unbelievers. The slave is to be punished as though he were a non-believer. So, non-obedient slaves and unbelievers are in the same class. Chris, you listening? Others may argue but imo subjecting people to slavery - and then punishing them for being disobedient to their masters IS advocating violence. bcnu,
Mikem
"The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism."
-Ted Grant
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Post #175,376
9/21/04 9:34:10 AM
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Read it carefully
The slave was left in charge in boss' absence. He imagined that the boss is not coming back, and started to abuse his position. The boss shall come back and punish the bad slave.
OK, now bring it one level higher. The boss becomes God, the slave left in authority is a ruler, and the other slaves he abused are poor people, widows and orphans. The ruler thinks that God, after giving him authority, is not coming back to demand an account. The ruler is mistaken.
Now, even the "lower" interpretation is not too bad. The bad slave had it coming. The higher is quite good. Do you have any objections?
(This will be my last attempt to explain my interpretation. If this does not get through, nothing will.)
--
... a reference to Presidente Arbusto.
-- [link|http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001417.html|Geoffrey K. Pullum]
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Post #175,538
9/21/04 8:55:56 PM
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You made my point.
You have interpretted the text to mean something it does not explicitly state. And in so doing, added some humanity/compassion/reason that was not there in plain text.
bcnu,
Mikem
"The struggle for the emancipation of the working class is not between races or religions. It is one of class against class. Every trace of anti-Semitism, or any form of race hatred cannot assist the oppressed, it can on the contrary only aid the exploiters. Workers of all nationality, religion or creed must stand together against the common enemy: capitalism."
-Ted Grant
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Post #175,610
9/22/04 8:59:18 AM
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Ashton mode on
literally
cha-cha-cha
Ashton Mode off.
--
... a reference to Presidente Arbusto.
-- [link|http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001417.html|Geoffrey K. Pullum]
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Post #175,826
9/22/04 7:11:50 PM
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I like [referent] mode better.
(Corporate Christianity + Bizness) ethics
A match made in heaven
Practicing Hellatio on each other and anyone else trying not to listen to the erotic sounds of pleasuring - amidst the awaiting boiling oil.
er,
cha cha glorp
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