zIWE to a lesser extent, Sleazy-board to a greater, DimfoWorld to the max. Apoplexy with Nick P. VS Brandioch/Khasim et alia. Sufi stories, Boolean diversions, what is Is and Isn't... and when you start in on The Bible, Revelations, and that deliciously sadistic stuff in Leviticus - from whence deriveth the homo-bashing as perpetuateth unto '04: it's a jillion-word trip into Looney Tunes. Noooooo. Not. Again.

I submit that a culture, society, 'group' possessed of an only miniscule acquaintance with metaphysical ideas, their 'referents' and a few rules that have worked for a couple millennia, to facilitate comprehension: cannot ever get beyond circular arguments for the most obv of reasons; ordinary language has no fucking [referent] from whence to begin.

I've maintainded this POV in each of these arenas (and many others), and the circularity has most often proved epidemic. (I've also seen it possible to evade circularity. Elsewhere.) But, just as we "learn nothing from history.." so also will not any participants in one circle jerk ever bother to discover that there Are means for communicating 'meta-views'.

So screw the pointless employment of Boolean IF/THEN digital logic in search of the Ontological Proof of God cha cha cha. This thread isn't about that; it was about - the pernicious 'thread' of fanatical associations with that idea inculcated into helpless kiddies - Belief as in,

I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe \ufffd I believe what I believe is right.
-\ufffd George W. Bush, in Rome, July 22, 2001 Sola Fides? via Giovanni

..because That is the axis upon which the circularity spins.

You teach a kid that THIS is "thinking".. (or, Gawd-forbid: reasoning) and it may take decades or a whole life, never learning to think beyond that unHoly box from childhood. This passed-on affliction has led to virtually uninterrupted warfare amidst the dueling I-Believes since (the surviving) reporters began to list the I-Believes in those war histories our minds are now too numb to remember; too [whatever] to reread. There Have Been SO Many.

What could be more obvious than that, Corporate Religion Kills humans?
If that is not obvious by inspection, would you like to buy a copy of the new Guaranteed-Secure Windows: The Final Edition?

(Let's not even get started Again on, "What is 'truth' or Truth"; the species, for the most part aren't ready even for the "What is" part.)

{sheesh}