You have an interesting sense of history

Post #110,959 by jb4 7/22/03 5:52:01 PM Reply	You have an interesting sense of history All I know is that we haven't had another hijacking, or another plane flown into a major US building since 9/11/01, and that tells me they must be doing something right. Hoo-fuckin-ray, no hijacking in about one-and-a-half-years in the US. Of course, we didn't have a hijacking in the US for at least that long in the US before 11Sep01 (I don't have the exact numbers, but I'm sure the collective memory of the LRPD can come up with the exact facts with several links to back it up...its a wonderful toy!). So what's yer point? That sheep prevent hijackings? jb4 The difference between Confidence and Ego is that Confidence has respect, while Ego does not. Candyce Burns (my wife)
Post #111,013 by Nightowl 7/22/03 10:26:12 PM Reply	Re: You have an interesting sense of history Hoo-fuckin-ray, no hijacking in about one-and-a-half-years in the US. Of course, we didn't have a hijacking in the US for at least that long in the US before 11Sep01 (I don't have the exact numbers, but I'm sure the collective memory of the LRPD can come up with the exact facts with several links to back it up...its a wonderful toy!). So what's yer point? That sheep prevent hijackings? No, my point is, I guess that I have seen a result. But based on my actual use of the airline industry, I probably have no true basis for deciding anything about it. Bottom line is I don't have the delays and annoyances, because I do not fly. Perhaps if I did fly, I would feel differently. And I don't know what you mean by sheep, to be honest. But I also believe that any level of comfort that can be gained by the concept of "Someone doing something about the situation" is also based on the feelings of the person getting the comfort. In my case, I had traumatic nightmares for months after 9/11, afraid that a plane would crash into my house. I know that was an "unreasonable" fear, but nonetheless, that is what 9/11 caused me to deal with. It took me MONTHS before I could stop listening for planes, stop watching for planes, and finally sleep comfortably. And a lot of that comfort was dervived from the measures the airlines and Homeland Security took to protect us. Maybe it was like a placebo or something, really didn't do anything in particular, but caused me the ability to relax and believe I was safe, regardless. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" Comment by Nightowl
Post #111,025 by Ashton 7/22/03 11:05:05 PM Reply	Out of the mouths of - Here you have succinctly summed-up the vast majority of in-place placebos constructed by this Admin: Maybe it was like a placebo or something, really didn't do anything in particular, but caused me the ability to relax and believe I was safe An almost brilliant comment, if I do say so - if you indeed understand the implications of what you said. And were you to take the time and attention to examine the PATRIOT Act and a few thousand other words that have entered our vocabulary since 9/11, why then.. just possibly you might find somewhere an association with the word sheep. Maybe not. Or to put it more simply, safety? [whatever a 'life' of perfect safety might be, in your ken] VS the appearance-of safety. More would be telling. Ashton
Post #111,031 by Nightowl 7/22/03 11:18:30 PM Reply	Re: Out of the mouths of - Here you have succinctly summed-up the vast majority of in-place placebos constructed by this Admin: Maybe it was like a placebo or something, really didn't do anything in particular, but caused me the ability to relax and believe I was safe An almost brilliant comment, if I do say so - if you indeed understand the implications of what you said. And were you to take the time and attention to examine the PATRIOT Act and a few thousand other words that have entered our vocabulary since 9/11, why then.. just possibly you might find somewhere an association with the word sheep. Maybe not. Okay. I know what you mean now. You mean do I follow orders or obey the laws, and the answer is basically, yes. I'm not a person who makes waves often, although I do defend my position when I feel it is being violated or attacked. I figure the government must know at least better than I, what should be done, when I can't even barely comprehend what all is going on politically. So yes, in that sense, I'm a sheep and hey, sheep live long happy lives, only giving their wool on occasion, where wolves are hunted down and shot. ;) Or to put it more simply, safety? [whatever a 'life' of perfect safety might be, in your ken] VS the appearance-of safety. More would be telling. Okay, you're saying I should not let the appearance of saftey lull me into a false sense of security, and believe me, I don't completely do that. In fact, I am still very nervous at times regarding the events of 9/11. But it still gave me some measure of comfort to know something was being done, just like my security alarm system gives me some measure of comfort that I'm safe in my own house. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" Comment by Nightowl
Post #111,035 by Ashton 7/22/03 11:31:46 PM Reply	Two words re safe sheep____lamb chops
Post #111,045 by Nightowl 7/23/03 12:22:29 AM Reply	Re: Two words re safe sheep____lamb chops Not always. Some are bred purely for their wool. :) Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" Comment by Nightowl
Post #111,054 by rcareaga 7/23/03 12:39:43 AM Reply	Dear God... Please tell me you don't vote. That would be too depressing to contemplate. Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #111,057 by Nightowl 7/23/03 12:45:00 AM Reply	Re: Dear God... Please tell me you don't vote. That would be too depressing to contemplate. Didn't you read my post to Ashton about that very topic? :) I rarely vote. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" Comment by Nightowl
Post #111,062 by rcareaga 7/23/03 12:51:49 AM Reply	Re: Dear God... I am gratified, madame, beyond my power to express this. Believe me to be very, very cordially yours, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #111,061 by Nightowl 7/23/03 12:50:54 AM Reply	Re: Dear God... And furthermore, sir, why does my one single vote matter so much? My father used to tell me that all the time. I HAD TO VOTE, it was IMPERATIVE. Well, I don't get it. Millions of people vote, and no election I've ever seen that mattered was won by one ballot. So don't worry about my vote or non-vote. Worry about the millions or thousands or whatever number of people there are that will vote the way you worry about. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" Comment by Nightowl
Post #111,065 by rcareaga 7/23/03 1:01:58 AM Reply	nightowl wonders "why does my one single vote matter so much?" Your one single vote matters hardly at all. The votes of millions of equally ill-informed enfranchised residents of this allegedly great land matter a great deal. I don't wish to be unkind, but your social and political observations as I have observed them to date strike me as appallingly naïve, even childlike. I can respect those political adversaries whose arguments, even when I violently disagree with them, give some evidence of rational calculations behind them. Your reasonings, my dear nightowl, would not do credit to a twelve year-old. I do applaud, however, your disinclination to vote. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #111,066 by Nightowl 7/23/03 1:10:23 AM Reply	Re: nightowl wonders I don't wish to be unkind, but your social and political observations as I have observed them to date strike me as appallingly naive, even childlike. I can respect those political adversaries whose arguments, even when I violently disagree with them, give some evidence of rational calculations behind them. Your reasonings, my dear nightowl, would not do credit to a twelve year-old. I do applaud, however, your disinclination to vote. Ok, granted on the political end. I was just never interested in politics, and still am not, and it's very difficult for me to understand. So yes, I'm sure I have about a grade school level of comprehension for that. As for my social observations, I'm not sure what you mean by that one. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" Comment by Nightowl
Post #111,182 by jb4 7/23/03 6:57:11 PM Reply	NO... what I meant was... ...that Sheep are willing to be led (actually, "herded" is the operative term) to whatever fate, Macheavelian [sic] or otherwise, that their "leaders" (read: shepherds) lead them into, and will quitely accept their fate without so much as a whimper (except perhaps, at the very end....). Sheep don't question whether they are being duped, or led down the primrose path, because they feel "safe" when they are being herded somewhere. Airport "security", as it is being practiced today, is so much handwaving. It has been repeatedly shown to be wastetime, ineffective window-dressing that does nothing to address the real problem of securing the airways against those evil-doers would would use said airways to do evil. Yet you, and so many others, are willing -- indeed eager -- to allow this inneffective handwaving exercise in the name of "heightend security" because you "feel so much safer" now that the Government "is doing something about security". Sheep! Get it now? jb4 The difference between Confidence and Ego is that Confidence has respect, while Ego does not. Candyce Burns (my wife)
Post #111,189 by Nightowl 7/23/03 8:57:07 PM 7/23/03 8:58:18 PM Reply	Re: NO... what I meant was... ...that Sheep are willing to be led (actually, "herded" is the operative term) to whatever fate, Macheavelian [sic] or otherwise, that their "leaders" (read: shepherds) lead them into, and will quitely accept their fate without so much as a whimper (except perhaps, at the very end....). Sheep don't question whether they are being duped, or led down the primrose path, because they feel "safe" when they are being herded somewhere. Well then I am most definitely NOT a sheep. If that was the case, I would still be employed today at a job I loved, rather than be a victim of having refused to do something I was told which was immoral and against the policy, and having lost a fight against a major university which ultimately cost me my job, my confidence in employment, and my self-confidence, some of the latter, which i have finally reacquired. Airport "security", as it is being practiced today, is so much handwaving. It has been repeatedly shown to be wastetime, ineffective window-dressing that does nothing to address the real problem of securing the airways against those evil-doers would would use said airways to do evil. Yet you, and so many others, are willing -- indeed eager -- to allow this inneffective handwaving exercise in the name of "heightend security" because you "feel so much safer" now that the Government "is doing something about security". I think the only reason I allow it is I have no say on it, am not part of it, do not fly and therefore, never considered it on any serious level. Make sense? I didn't say I did anything to cause it to be, only that knowing it happens gave me a level of comfort. There is a difference in being actively involved in causing something to happen, and simply gaining something from it happening. Get it now? Yes, but I still do not consider myself a sheep, based on your first paragraphs here, because I always question anything that directly affects me if I think it's wrong. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" Comment by Nightowl Edited by Nightowl July 23, 2003, 08:58:18 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #111,380 by boxley 7/24/03 11:43:05 PM Reply	AHAH! an almost tenured professor suspected education when I saw that loverly car you drive. thanx, bill questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #111,389 by Nightowl 7/25/03 12:11:56 AM Reply	Re: AHAH! an almost tenured professor suspected education when I saw that loverly car you drive. Thanks Box. I do adore my car. :) But I was not a professor, was just on my way to becoming a History major... But I do have a 2 year degree in Communications, Creative Writing. So yes, I'd say I'm fairly educated... just never completed the 4 year thing and may not, don't know. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" Comment by Nightowl
Post #111,226 by hnick 7/24/03 7:39:37 AM Reply	Retirement package still includes mint jelly...
Post #111,311 by jb4 7/24/03 4:52:49 PM Reply	chuckle jb4 The difference between Confidence and Ego is that Confidence has respect, while Ego does not. Candyce Burns (my wife)
Post #111,320 by Ashton 7/24/03 5:17:38 PM Reply	Oh You Kid..!______(speak goatish?) 23 Skiddoo

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