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New How do you assess the risk?
If it is what the WHO fears, by the time you have positive proof, there is no way to contain it.

If you look at is as a disease, we have multiple reports of sick people, no identified disease organism or proof of mode of transmission, and only a handful dead. This is a crisis?

Given the potential consequences I am inclined towards the WHO's frame of mind. Theirs is the public health perspective, not the medical one. And I am minded of the fact that, publicity notwithstanding, public health has saved more lives than modern medicine. (Clean water supplies save more than antibiotics!)

Cheers,
Ben

PS D'oh. I got corrected by my wife. The CDC is a US organization, not a UN one. Both take a public health perspective. My speculation is that since the problem has not been reported in the US, the CDC has to trust that the problem will be contained, so their mandate is to avoid undue public panic and keep a good outcome having been seen as crying wolf. The WHO by contrast needs to motivate resources to achieve containment.

PPS My wife's comment about this is that what is reported so far is scary, and events in the next week are likely to be telling as to whether it dies down and will be succesfully contained or whether it will succeed in achieving a wider distribution.
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Expand Edited by ben_tilly March 15, 2003, 01:27:41 PM EST
New Next week will tell the tale
We had a mini house council earlier. I live with a bunch of International students, including one from China and two from Korea... though they've all been here for at least two and a half months. OTOH, we've had five people go through the house who were in T.O. in the last week, including one of the tenants. It's extremely unlikely that any of them were exposed, but not impossible.

If we start seeing widespread infection in Toronto next week, it will be time to go from yakking to doing... if it's quiet by the end of next week (say, maybe a dozen or so more infections from contact with the initial family) then it might be OK.

... fixed typo. JT
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Expand Edited by jake123 March 15, 2003, 01:47:49 PM EST
New I wouldn't worry about Toronto
If in the next week you continue to hear about isolated cases, but there is no sign in Hong Kong and Singapore of thousands getting sick, and there aren't a long list of cities popping up from which vectors seem to originate, then it almost certainly is contained.

I would personally be concerned if there is a city somewhere which is reporting thousands rather than hundreds. Or if the number of cities with outbreaks of a hundred or so keeps on growing. Either would indicate to me that despite public health efforts, it is continuing to grow towards a critical mass.

So if in a week there are 100 cases in Toronto but no new big centers of outbreak get reported, I would be comfortable. If in a week Toronto is clearly under control but Hong Kong is not, I would be worried.

Also I would like to note that being in a city of millions with an outbreak of hundreds is a small risk. Unless, of course, you are either working in the medical field or the outbreak takes off.

Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
New I'm not... yet.
As I said, the next week or so will tell the tale. It's been reported that the family that was sick made two separate visits to emerg before they were taken in; it was only on their third visit that they were admitted and put into isolation. If it's as infectious as it appears, that could mean major numbers of people have been exposed. OTOH, now that the health unit there knows what they're dealing with, they're taking all reasonable steps to find people who may have been exposed and bringing them in.
--\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\r\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\r\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
     WHO virus warning update, it has spread to canada - (boxley) - (49)
         Yes. this is big news up here today. - (jake123)
         Scary - (ben_tilly) - (6)
             CDC (typical conservative) response - (tseliot) - (4)
                 How do you assess the risk? - (ben_tilly) - (3)
                     Next week will tell the tale - (jake123) - (2)
                         I wouldn't worry about Toronto - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                             I'm not... yet. - (jake123)
             Yes, this is not good, not good at all - (jake123)
         and so it begins - (rcareaga) - (38)
             Well..I actually *understand* it... - (ben_tilly) - (37)
                 as useful as Navaho traditions - (boxley)
                 We may be speaking at cross-purposes... - (rcareaga) - (35)
                     No, not animist, analist would be more apt :) -NT - (boxley) - (19)
                         Re: No, not animist, analist would be more apt :) - (rcareaga) - (18)
                             your description of what others might think of you - (boxley) - (17)
                                 The "Viega" tag.. - (rcareaga) - (16)
                                     no problem I find it amusing and that is the only criteria - (boxley) - (7)
                                         why then, if it amuses you - (rcareaga) - (1)
                                             thank you sir for your understanding -NT - (boxley)
                                         Well.. I guess it might amuse me that - (Ashton) - (4)
                                             I would have thought by now you of all people - (boxley) - (3)
                                                 Who He? - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                     inna movie i sentya :-) busy lad ashton -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                         Well.. yeah: the Worm in the Apple, or maybe the asp - (Ashton)
                                     since I feel sorry for ya Viega - (boxley) - (7)
                                         Re: since I feel sorry for ya Viega - (rcareaga) - (4)
                                             Joys of the unfettered associative-brain: - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                 Re: Joys of the unfettered associative-brain: - (rcareaga)
                                             since I only heard it, it sounds like Viega with a bad Irish - (boxley) - (1)
                                                 socialist? hardly - (rcareaga)
                                         Nit - (Silverlock)
                                         Romolo Valli - (deSitter)
                     We may indeed be speaking at cross-purposes - (ben_tilly) - (14)
                         huh?? - (rcareaga) - (12)
                             Quite simply... - (ben_tilly) - (11)
                                 Re: Quite simply... - (rcareaga) - (10)
                                     pick up yer local copy of the bible - (boxley)
                                     You seem to have missed the point - (ben_tilly) - (8)
                                         Re: You seem to have missed the point - (rcareaga) - (1)
                                             I think that I have read enough evolution theory for now... - (ben_tilly)
                                         Methinks the hypothesis could not be tested. - (Ashton) - (5)
                                             In other words, it's a statement of faith. -NT - (jake123)
                                             blazing metaphors - (rcareaga) - (1)
                                                 Good reminder.. - (Ashton)
                                             What value do you seek from the hypothesis? - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                 You might wish to be careful re the assumption that - (Ashton)
                         Re: We may indeed be speaking at cross-purposes - (deSitter)
         Iraq must've launched one of its bio-weapons. -NT - (mmoffitt)
         New case in Toronto - (jake123)

When?
75 ms