Post #88,109
3/13/03 3:59:52 PM
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AUUUUUUGH! the original problem seems to be back!
Okay... I'm at the end of my rope here with Andrei. So, since you all were so helpful with the video card issue in Hardware, I'm gonna outline this one for you and see what you come up with, ok?
The reason we replaced the motherboard in the first place, was because it wouldn't take the new memory, (i.e. it wouldn't allow us to add memory to make it 500 mg).
The reason we wanted to add more memory, was Andrei had developed some sort of serious memory "leak", for lack of any other way to describe it. We replaced the mother board and added new memory, hoping to stop it, but we apparently have not, and although it performed better for the first few days, now it apparently is worsening (like it was before).
I am at a loss with this. A little while ago, I was on Andrei, for less than an HOUR. All that was open was the following: 1)System Monitor (which I'm using to monitor the memory) 2) AnyTime Organizer Software (which I leave up all the time), 3) Eudora 4) Opera and Opera was connected to the internet and the only thing I had open was Yahoo mail, no groups, nothing else. The only other thing running was a program called E-sheep, and I have 5 of those activated.
In less than one hour, while cleaning out my mailbox in Yahoo, the memory dropped from 390.6M to right above 195.3M.
Is this normal, AND if not, what on earth might be causing it? My husband believes it's software, but we're perplexed.
I've replaced a great deal of hardware on Andrei lately, he has a new modem, a new mouse, a new keyboard, a new motherboard, new memory, and we know it isn't the video card because the leak occurred using either one.
As I've said, I'm at a loss... any suggestions?
Nightowl >8#
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,110
3/13/03 4:02:19 PM
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Process of elimination.
Stop using one of the programs for a while. Alternate. Eventually you'll discover one of the two things to be true:
1) one of your favorite programs is eating memory
2) something in the system (OS, etc) is eating memory.
Solution to #1 is easy: stop using it. :-P
Solution to #2 involves more things to check.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #88,112
3/13/03 4:06:54 PM
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Re: Process of elimination.
Stop using one of the programs for a while. Alternate. Eventually you'll discover one of the two things to be true: 1) one of your favorite programs is eating memory 2) something in the system (OS, etc) is eating memory. Solution to #1 is easy: stop using it. :-P Solution to #2 involves more things to check. Kewl, that was actually something I was thinking about trying, but I wanted to know first if the memory usage was truly abnormal. I'll do some tests. Thanks Scott. Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,494
3/15/03 12:58:23 AM
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Questions about the Process of elimination. (new thread)
Created as new thread #88493 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=88493|Questions about the Process of elimination.]
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,114
3/13/03 4:09:29 PM
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Consider running Spybot Search and Destroy
[link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=68533|#68533]. Read the followups too.
I agree with Scott that it's probably software. Unfortunately with Windows, it's tough to tell what's running. SS&D can search for hidden programs and indicate what's safe to delete. The leaking program may not be a spybot, but it's worth checking.
Good luck.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #88,194
3/13/03 10:46:55 PM
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Re: AUUUUUUGH! the original problem seems to be back!
This is Nightowl's husband. She asked me to post about the memory leak problem.
I didn't try any spybot search programs, but I did go into Regedit and verified manually what is set to start up when Windows starts. I didn't find anything I couldn't account for. (I also found that QuickTime manager starts when Windows starts, even though I told it not to! I took care of that one. But it didn't solve the problem.)
Now I'm trying a shareware memory optimizer tool, which claims to find memory that isn't freed properly when the program ends. It doesn't seem to be helping much either, so far. I stopped everything besides Explorer and Systray, and it was still 50M or so down from where it started.
Does anyone know of any other diagnostic programs that can identify where the memory goes?
I wish Windows 98 kept track of process status better.
Nightowl's husband JohnF
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,197
3/13/03 10:57:18 PM
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Re: AUUUUUUGH! the original problem seems to be back!
You're an idiot. You've glommed onto this phrase "memory leak" as a talisman for your ignorance. Hint - memory leaks originate in compilers. Windows has not had a serious problem with leaks since the days of early NT 4.0 and the bad C development tools that were contemporaneous.
Coincidentally, Norm is always having non-issues like this, with the associated qwetsching and hair-pulling over imaginary problems. Hmmmm...
Why don't you, Husband, leave and take Wife with.
-drl
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Post #88,200
3/13/03 11:01:49 PM
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leave wife and establish own ID
Does a reboot clear the memory issues?
examine config and autoexec
disconnect from the internet and see if the same problem occurs.
If you know any nubile female AIX admins give the De's email addy.
thanx
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]</br>
"If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
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Post #88,202
3/13/03 11:07:59 PM
3/13/03 11:11:01 PM
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Memory Issues ( was Re: leave wife and establish own ID)
Does a reboot clear the memory issues? A reboot does not always clear the memory issues. Sometimes it does, and sometimes the memory is still approximately 50m down from the usual usage left over after the OS is booted up. It appears to be intermittent. examine config and autoexec I'll tell him that one. disconnect from the internet and see if the same problem occurs. I'll try that one. If you know any nubile female AIX admins give the De's email addy. I don't understand this part. But if your subject title is saying John needs to make his own ID in here, it won't work because we can't log me out and him in quickly, and he has to use my computer for this site. So we aren't able to interchangeably use this site in any easy fashion. He'll only post here to help me explain computer issues that are over my head to explain to you all... hopefully that won't be a problem. Thanks, Boxley. Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
Edited by Nightowl
March 13, 2003, 11:11:01 PM EST
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Post #88,205
3/13/03 11:10:08 PM
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sigh if you log out of winders and he logs in new login time
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]</br>
"If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
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Post #88,208
3/13/03 11:13:09 PM
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Re: sigh if you log out of winders and he logs...
Huh? Log out of windows? What do you mean, do you mean reboot????
Yikes, if we had to reboot every time he had to help me out here, I'd never get anything taken care of.
Scott, is it a problem that John is posting here for me sometimes? If so, I'll start letting him tell ME what to type. ;)
Nightowl >8#
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,210
3/13/03 11:15:02 PM
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Are you using winblow 95 or above
If you are you can set "defferent" user id's without powering down the box.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]</br>
"If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
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Post #88,211
3/13/03 11:15:13 PM
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FSCKING IDIOT!
GO SOMEWHERE ON YOUR OWN LEVEL.
WHOEVER THE FUCK YOU ARE.
-drl
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Post #88,288
3/14/03 9:24:07 AM
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Chill dude.
You don't think the question is up to your level of intellectual acumen then don't answer it. Go away. Calm down. Get a clue.
Clinton, Clinton, Clinton. Is that all you guys ever think about? Do you see him hiding around every corner? Does he haunt your dreams? I dunno, if I was you I'd probably WANT to forget about the great William Jefferson Clinton. Unlike the current president, he managed peace, prosperity, balanced budgets, lower poverty and child poverty rates, 21 million new jobs, 50,000 new teachers, 100,000 new cops, the lowest crime rate in 25 years, greater worker protections, the highest home ownership rate in history, the protection of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security... Mind you, he did also have a penis, the evil bastard.
--[link|http://www.democraticunderground.com/|Democratic Underground]
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Post #88,219
3/13/03 11:25:34 PM
3/13/03 11:27:33 PM
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It's not so bad.
DeSitter gets crabby - that's just the way he is. Don't take his complaints personally.
Boxley can be terse and often leaves out punctuation. It takes a while to get used to his posting style. :-)
Boxley was suggesting that DeSitter would be happier and less crabby if he found a job as an AIX admin with an attractive co-worker. He was asking if you could forward DeSitter's e-mail address if you know of such a position. :-)
Now, ...
Huh? Log out of windows? What do you mean, do you mean reboot????
Go to the "Start" button and under the "Shut Down" option you should see something like "Logout and Login as a new user", depending on which version of Windows you're running. It'll close (most?) all your apps and then you should be able to login in Opera in IWeThey as a different user.
Scott (the other one) may be able to suggest another way that you can both easily use the same PC to talk to us here with different logins. (You could, for example, use different browsers.)
But you really don't need to do that. There's no way for us to get confused on who's using the account as long as you sign your messages - as you always do. So don't worry about it. :-)
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #88,224
3/13/03 11:38:06 PM
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Don't worry about it, Brenda.
Ignore Ross. He's been using his automatic 6-D-battery self-flagellation and knob-growing whoopie rod a bit too much lately, I think. Sometimes he's as unstable as Norm, just in spetacularly different ways. ;-)
If John wants to use the forums a lot, it's probably easier if he uses his own account. But if it's just an occasional thing, don't worry about it.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #88,232
3/13/03 11:54:13 PM
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Re: Don't worry about it, Brenda.
Ignore Ross. He's been using his automatic 6-D-battery self-flagellation and knob-growing whoopie rod a bit too much lately, I think. Sometimes he's as unstable as Norm, just in spetacularly different ways. ;-) Thanks Scott. And I'm sorry we can't meet with him at this point, but it just doesn't seem like a good judgment call after all this stuff. If John wants to use the forums a lot, it's probably easier if he uses his own account. But if it's just an occasional thing, don't worry about it. Thanks and he won't be using it much, I assure you. He's not interested in becoming part of this group, just solving the computer problem we've had for months now. I'm doing my best not to incite people in here or do anything wrong, and I follow the rules, so if I'm breaking one here at any point, please tell me. Meanwhile, I'm also trying to find a way to link a photo to here so you can see me and John and my car.. but I haven't sorted out how yet. John said something about having to have the photo on a site.. and we don't have one other than one with our personal info, which isn't an option here. But I'm on it. Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,209
3/13/03 11:13:47 PM
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Has everybody just abandoned good judgment?
These people are frauds.
If they are not, then they will agree to meet me in person.
This is something that fucking sicko deadbeat Norm has concocted to jack himself off with.
-drl
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Post #88,213
3/13/03 11:17:48 PM
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Re: Has everybody just abandoned good judgment?
These people are frauds. If they are not, then they will agree to meet me in person. We did agree to meet you in person remember? We were talking about meeting. Where would you want to meet? I assure you, John and I are not frauds. This is something that fucking sicko deadbeat Norm has concocted to jack himself off with. And this is simply not true. I posted in here to call on all of your expertise, because I needed help with a technical problem, and still do, and I feel like you all have a vast amount of technical expertise. If you don't want to help me and John out, feel free to say so, and I'll search for another site for help. And I'll verify my existence to anyone who asks in any "reasonable" way they would like, including by phone or person. Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,215
3/13/03 11:20:33 PM
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I don't believe you, get it?
-drl
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Post #88,220
3/13/03 11:27:11 PM
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Put up or shut up.
Go meet them. Until you do, you're just being an asshole. Very, very tiresome, Ross. Stop it. Now.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #88,222
3/13/03 11:28:50 PM
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Re: Has everybody just abandoned good judgment?
Nightowl's husband again. I have no desire to meet deSitter, and I really don't care if anyone believes I'm real or not. I could be Norm, Nightowl, Scott, Linda Ellerbee, Bill Gates, and everybody else. I just want to know if someone has a suggestion on what to do with disappearing Windows 98 memory.
(Nightowl wasn't aware that it wasn't an option to meet with deSitter anymore. I had decided on that a long time ago, and hadn't told her. We had already solved the problem with the video card, and it doesn't look like he's going to provide any more help.)
JohnF
(no separate ID, by the way, as I don't intend to establish a permanent presence here)
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,214
3/13/03 11:19:17 PM
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naw, convinced they are the lost tribe of Orion
and have been not exposed to the outer whirls, a little like the cargo cult folks, well meaning but slow.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]</br>
"If you want to meet a group of people who have a profound distrust of, and hostility toward, our legal system, don't waste your time on political radicals; interview a random selection of crime victims, and you will probably find that they make the former group look like utopian idealists by comparison." Dave Robicheaux
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Post #88,234
3/13/03 11:57:06 PM
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Re: naw, convinced they are the lost tribe of Orion
and have been not exposed to the outer whirls, a little like the cargo cult folks, well meaning but slow. Hehehe, not sure what you mean exactly, but maybe you mean I'm not that computer-smart, and you would be correct. However, John is, he's a programmer, hence the reason I have him explain things he tries or does because he'll make more sense than me. I have limited internet knowledge, almost NO html knowledge, (although he bought me a book and I'm checking into it), and some software knowledge that's close to expert on some programs, and clueless on others. ;) And if I don't understand something, I admit it, look it up, or ask. :) Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,248
3/14/03 1:13:44 AM
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Believe me, even I couldn't have invented a story like this
or characters like Brenda and John. Much as I'd like to take credit for it, they are not me. Real people, real problems. Not as technically savvy as most of the people here, but still no reason to insult them.
Nice opinion you have of me deSitter, are we still friends?
Can't take the Admin's word for it? Still think it is me? I hope that you do finaly meet them and have to eat crow for being wrong. Or maybe they can get an online picture. Brenda, do you have a Yahoo Geocities account? Upload a picture of you and John there and then point a URL to it in a post. This will at least show them what you look like. If not, visit [link|http://www.geocities.com/|http://www.geocities.com/] and create one. You cannot link directly to the picture from the forum here, but you can place it in a web page or something.
[link|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey|
New and improved, Chicken Delvits!]
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Post #88,249
3/14/03 1:18:38 AM
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Re: Believe me, even I couldn't have invented a story...
or characters like Brenda and John. Much as I'd like to take credit for it, they are not me. Real people, real problems. Not as technically savvy as most of the people here, but still no reason to insult them. Nice opinion you have of me deSitter, are we still friends? Can't take the Admin's word for it? Still think it is me? I hope that you do finaly meet them and have to eat crow for being wrong. Or maybe they can get an online picture. Brenda, do you have a Yahoo Geocities account? Upload a picture of you and John there and then point a URL to it in a post. This will at least show them what you look like. If not, visit [link|http://www.geocities.com/|http://www.geocities.com/] and create one. You cannot link directly to the picture from the forum here, but you can place it in a web page or something. Yep, actually I just posted about that in the tips forum. I've got a friend who told me to email her the 2 pictures. I just have to figure out how to link it here. John detests geocities hehee! But I'm on the problem. Just figuring it out. Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,251
3/14/03 1:24:38 AM
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Re: Believe me, even I couldn't have invented a story...
Just post the URL address in the body of the message and it will autolink for you after you've posted it.
[link|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey|
New and improved, Chicken Delvits!]
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Post #88,331
3/14/03 11:15:47 AM
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Re: Believe me, even I couldn't have invented a story
You never even bothered to apologize to THIS crowd for your lies and manipulations - then mystery people show up connected to you - what is someone supposed to believe? This is what happens when you stomp on someone's trust.
-drl
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Post #88,389
3/14/03 5:15:43 PM
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Then I apologize
for my actions and misdeeds to this crowd for what I have done in the past. I am doing what I can so that there will be no more repeats of said behavior.
Just for the record, I am/was right about not being Nightowl. Now there is proof about it. I have done what I can to control myself to not repeat past events.
"Bill gates cannot guarantee Windows, so how are you going to guarantee my safety?"
-John Crichton to the Emperor of the Scarrans on [link|http://www.farscape.com|FarScape]
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Post #88,424
3/14/03 6:46:56 PM
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Re: Then I apologize
Good for you, Norman! I'm proud of you! Being sorry for something and admitting it is always the first step, and then you live and learn from it. And I think you are doing just that.
And hey, don't get too upset if everyone doesn't accept it right off. It might take time. Be patient. :)
Nightowl >8#
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,245
3/14/03 1:03:46 AM
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Can you create a profile in Opera?
I don't use Opera, but Mozilla allows the use of profiles. You can exit the browser and sign in with a different profile so that multiple users can use the browser.
Either that or have John use a different browser like IE to post.
[link|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey|
New and improved, Chicken Delvits!]
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Post #88,246
3/14/03 1:08:40 AM
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Re: Can you create a profile in Opera?
I don't use Opera, but Mozilla allows the use of profiles. You can exit the browser and sign in with a different profile so that multiple users can use the browser. I have no idea what Opera does on that front. Clueless owl! hehee! Either that or have John use a different browser like IE to post. It's ok, Scott said he doesn't have to make an ID, since he's only helping me post about Andrei, and really isn't interested in being on here otherwise. I also offered to have him tell me what to write, and I can sign them too. I think we're fine. :) Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,204
3/13/03 11:09:01 PM
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Ha! :-)
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Post #88,218
3/13/03 11:25:27 PM
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ROSS: Cut. It. Out. (new thread)
Created as new thread #88217 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=88217|ROSS: Cut. It. Out.]
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #88,272
3/14/03 7:17:17 AM
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Speaking of ignorance..
You're an idiot. You've glommed onto this phrase "memory leak" as a talisman for your ignorance. Hint - memory leaks originate in compilers. Windows has not had a serious problem with leaks since the days of early NT 4.0 and the bad C development tools that were contemporaneous. And here I was with this silly impression that it was perfectly possible for a human to create a memory leak with bad coding practices. Which, in fact, happens rather more than said humans would like. As for the rest of it, well Ross, it isn't only Norm that makes us wonder what is in the water in St. Louis... Cheers, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #88,312
3/14/03 10:37:01 AM
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Spybot program.
A spybot wouldn't be my thought to consume memory - because they are generally unobtrusive - though generally devious. I still recommend running the [link|http://www.lavasoft.de/support/download/|LavaSoft Spyware Detector] on any Winders machine just to clean up some messes.
Another tool you might to look at is Microsoft's PowerToys. Looking at the MS site I can't see that they still offer the '98 version (I could only find the XP version), but you might be able to track it down - I probably have it around here somewhere. The tool has a utility that examines the registry to look at what all programs are loaded at startup - (you could also use the registry editor to look up the same information - though all I see when I look at the Registry is a jumbled mess with no discernable logic) (McAfee or Norton probably has the same capabilities in their toolbox).
It's possible, though improbable, that a program is getting loaded on startup but does not remain active after the boot process is completed. That is, it may not show up in the active Processes after the boot is complete. But it also might not have deallocated memory it allocated (or blew up in the process and left no running libraries or threads).
Of course, you could always do the MS thingie and simply reinstall Windows '98 from the CD. This has been known to mysteriously fix some problems, but you'll always be unsatisfied if it does, as you will never really know why. :-)
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Post #88,319
3/14/03 10:53:14 AM
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Spybots are notoriously bad.
Unobtrusive? Ha!
When I went to D.C. this last Christmas, and visited my dad, he had no fewer than 4 spybots on his computer, which was slow, leaking memory like Windows 3.0, and crashed more than a Ford Explorer with Firestone tires.
Pulled out all the spycrap, and he's been running fine since. (Gator, aureate, and a couple others I don't remember.) The leaks have pretty much stopped, his computer is noticeably faster, and he doesn't get the random bluescreens he used to.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
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Post #88,362
3/14/03 1:17:34 PM
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You know, this might simply be normal behaviour.
I don't run Windows (I use OS/2 instead), but the basic principles around mem optimisation at the OS is pretty straightforward. \r\n\r\n First a couple of concepts: \r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n- Libraries are like programs that are not designed to be run by users but are designed to be run by other programmers from the programs they write. These are usually contained in .dll files: DLL stands for Dynamically Linked Library.
\r\n\r\n- A swap file is a device used to handle times when the programs you're running want more memory than is actually available from system RAM. Areas of memory that haven't been used in a while get written to disk, and are read from the disk later when something needs it. This is also called virtual memory, memory paging, and various other names.
\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n Yeah, pretty basic, but I don't know if you know, so I wanted to make sure we're on the same page. \r\n\r\n When OS/2 loads, it loads up a whole bunch of system libraries. The idea is that even if it doesn't use them immediately, it's going to use them so they might as well go into memory. However, if you're running on a low memory computer (say, <256MB) there's not enough memory to hold them all. So, the system will end up pushing them out to the swap file as other programs fire up and displace them. Later on, they'll get called out of the swap file as needed. \r\n\r\n In general, this is a good strategy; because of the way the swap file is organised and accessed, it's usually a lot faster to pull information and programs from the swap file than it is to read it from disk, so by getting it all out of the way at the very beginning, it makes the computer more responsive once you actually start using it. \r\n\r\n Now, Win9x is pretty famous for really sucking at virtual memory management. It really does; just take my word on it. What you might be seeing is that system libraries in Windows are being pushed out to the swap file during system start, and then reloading into RAM as they are called. Part of what you might also be seeing is the effect of large amounts of RAM on Win9x; the 9x line is really designed for computers with 32, 64, or maybe 128 MB RAM, and the strategies it uses to deal with memory reflect that, resulting in some less than optimal performance issues when more ram is added. \r\n\r\n If you suspect it's a piece of software, run them one at a time and see which ones cause free ram to "disappear" over time, and you have your culprit. However, the fact that you've "lost" 50 MB since you booted despite the fact that you're only running explorer and systray might simply be because stuff that was pushed out to the swap file at boot time are now loaded into ram instead. --\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\r\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\r\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #88,363
3/14/03 1:20:33 PM
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Re: You know, this might simply be normal behaviour.
I'll let John read all that, some of it was "greek" to me...
But I appreciate the input. One question though, what would cause the computer to sometimes boot up to the 382 and other times boot up to lower than that, when 382 is what it really supposed to be free after the OS is running? It's intermittent, but at times it boots up with about 50M not there.
Perplexing, huh?
Nightowl >8#
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,367
3/14/03 1:24:32 PM
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You may have some rogue processes in startup.
[link|http://www.answersthatwork.com/Tasklist_pages/tasklist.htm|Here] is nice page with a listing of processes and explanations for what you might find in your task list.
Clinton, Clinton, Clinton. Is that all you guys ever think about? Do you see him hiding around every corner? Does he haunt your dreams? I dunno, if I was you I'd probably WANT to forget about the great William Jefferson Clinton. Unlike the current president, he managed peace, prosperity, balanced budgets, lower poverty and child poverty rates, 21 million new jobs, 50,000 new teachers, 100,000 new cops, the lowest crime rate in 25 years, greater worker protections, the highest home ownership rate in history, the protection of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security... Mind you, he did also have a penis, the evil bastard.
--[link|http://www.democraticunderground.com/|Democratic Underground]
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Post #89,359
3/19/03 4:46:37 AM
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ATTN: late post here. Bad memory ???
You may have actual memory failure, not a 'leak'; depends on *when* you are looking at memory size -- at boot or, only after Win starts. But I appreciate the input. One question though, what would cause the computer to sometimes boot up to the 382 and other times boot up to lower than that, when 382 is what it really supposed to be free after the OS is running? It's intermittent, but at times it boots up with about 50M not there. Do you mean: while DOS is starting and you see the BIOS info passing by and memory test: you sometimes see *less* than your installed memory? (If your BIOS has a 'silent boot' feature and it is turned ON: you won't see this early bookkeeping stuff) If you are now regularly checking only Windows' version of how much memory you have, and sometimes - immediately after Windows starts - you see less RAM: I think I'd reboot a few times and see if you can catch a lower reading on the memtest which occurs before DOS is loaded. Point: In a notebook, recently - the initial memtest indeed showed "40" MB for what should have been 80. In this case though, Windows recognized the full 80. What the memtest was *really* reflecting was: a 'stuck-bit' at a particular address. This was proven by diags. New memory fixed all the BSOD and other symptoms. It may be worth your while to observe a series of boots, looking only at the turn-on memtest. Hit f-8 to avoid waiting for Doze to load, so you can test again. If you see a similar symptom to above: power down, remove mem and clean edges with 97% (ie conc.) Isopropyl alcohol and reinsert. Obey static-electricity drill, natch. That might cure it, but you'd have to again try several boots. It's clear that Windows will recognize memory which the memtest has 'rejected'. (Bad memory in bottom 640K should.. halt the boot, freeze display - at least for some kinds of failure) HTH, Ashton PS re the query above, about WHEN all this started: could it have been just after you bought more memory ?? If so, well.. time to run diagnostics on your motherboard and make it "loop" for continual memory test. That would be better than the above tool-free tests.
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Post #88,250
3/14/03 1:23:25 AM
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You shouldn't have a loss of memory like that
I am aware of what the E-Sheep program is, little sheep run around the screen, climb on windows, etc.
Is there anything else running in the background? Anti-Virus, screen savers, Norton Windoctor, etc? Anti-Virus programs like Norton AV can slow a system down and eat up memory, but not like that.
I have 98SE with 128M of RAM, and I run more programs than you do, and I never seem to run out of memory.
Could you have your swap-file set too small? Is it unable to page out to the hard drive and instead it is using your physical RAM? Try changing the settings on your swap file:
Start / Settings / Control Panel / System / Performance / Virtual memory
It most likely will say to let Windows manage its own memory, try changing that and choosing the size of the swap file and then reboot and see if that makes a difference.
[link|http://pub75.ezboard.com/bantiiwethey|
New and improved, Chicken Delvits!]
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Post #88,255
3/14/03 1:55:33 AM
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Re: You shouldn't have a loss of memory like that
I am aware of what the E-Sheep program is, little sheep run around the screen, climb on windows, etc. I think they are adorrrrrrrable! Sooooooo cute! Cute Sheepies!!! Is there anything else running in the background? Anti-Virus, screen savers, Norton Windoctor, etc? Anti-Virus programs like Norton AV can slow a system down and eat up memory, but not like that. Yeah, we know all about McAffee Virus stuff. That was what we had to shut off the first time, cause Andrei just c-r-a-w-l-e-d. John has it all disabled as much as it gets, and he manually runs it whenever I have to scan something. (I still will not download or open any attachments without him checking them out). So we are fairly sure it isn't something running in the background, although we did come across this one weird program called Atmen or Atsmen or something like that.... oh man, why didn't I write it down... and it was running, but we didn't know what it was. I'll find out tomorrow what it was actually called from John. I have 98SE with 128M of RAM, and I run more programs than you do, and I never seem to run out of memory. Yeah, I don't think this is normal whatsoever for only running Eudora, opera, a few Yahoo groups and Messenger, and this site, and occasionally a MS application like Word or Excel. I know I stay on for hours, but this still doesn't seem right. Could you have your swap-file set too small? Is it unable to page out to the hard drive and instead it is using your physical RAM? Try changing the settings on your swap file: Start / Settings / Control Panel / System / Performance / Virtual memory It most likely will say to let Windows manage its own memory, try changing that and choosing the size of the swap file and then reboot and see if that makes a difference. I'll have him check that out tomorrow after work, thanks. Personally, I think Andrei is just hungry, and wants to eat it all. Yum Yum! Hehehe! Nightowl >8# P.S. We're using this program called TweakRam, right now, and I'm logging everything I'm doing and paying attention to it. Tedious, but I want to fix this. "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,454
3/14/03 9:05:25 PM
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Re: You shouldn't have a loss of memory like that
This is Nightowl's husband again.
Thanks to all for their suggestions!
This shareware memory management program claims to have a feature that deloads unused DLL libraries. That hasn't seemed to make a difference, but that might just be an ineffective memory management program.
I noticed that the web site that lists "bad tasks to have" lists CMAgent as a Bad Thing. We're running it because we're running McAfee Uninstaller. I might try disabling it to see if Uninstaller still works, and see if anything improves.
Windows 98 comes with a program called "msconfig" that makes checking all of the various startup options, including config.sys and autoexec.bat, a snap. I've been disabling things directly with Regedit, though.
The memory management program includes a swap file memory usage graph, so we might keep an eye on that to see if it provides any illuminating evidence.
Finally, I could just go ahead and upgrade every program on here, hoping that might fix the problem somewhere. We still have IE 5.5, for example.
I gotta have time to do something other than computer stuff this weekend, though!
Thanks again,
Nightowl's husband JohnF
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,462
3/14/03 10:16:40 PM
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Update on Andrei (was Re: You shouldn't have a...)
Okay, this is Owl this time, so bear with me. Hehe!
John disabled the following programs on startup in Andrei:
Direct CD, CD Creator, and McAfee Uninstaller. (Icky McAfee Bleah! Owls hate McAfee). He can start any of these programs manually if needed.
Now I get to play a little and log Andrei's memory and see what happens now. :)
Also, that weird program I was trying to remember the name of is called Atdem. Anyone know what on earth it is? Could it be my esheeps? It isn't running now, but it was running mysteriously yesterday.
We'll try more things after we see first what this did or didn't do.
Thanks!
Nightowl >8#
"Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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Post #88,510
3/15/03 7:05:30 AM
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atdem?
Let's google for it...
[link|http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=atdem|http://www.google.co...&oe=UTF-8&q=atdem]
Nope. I don't know about this program, and it looks like nobody else does as well.
If programs that nobody, including you, has heard of are running, then that sounds like something homegrown is running. (Even if it is obscure on your computer, I expect to see it show up in Google.) If something homegrown is running and you don't know about it, then I would start looking around for trojans - evidence that some script kiddie managed to 0wn j00.
If that is the case then your memory problems may be something that that kid is doing...
Sorry to raise this possibility,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #88,582
3/15/03 6:50:08 PM
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I figured out what Atdem is! ( was Re: atdem?)
Let's google for it... I did look on google, too and also didn't find it. But this morning, we tried running only a few things at once, and one of the things we shut off was Anytime Organizer. Interestingly enough, when we checked the Task Manager list, Atdem was there again. Then, it occurred to me that perhaps it was part of Anytime, since we had had it running and shut it off. Sure enough, we were able to locate it in the Anytime program directory. We have about figured out that when you turn off Anytime (it starts on startup), it automatically puts Atdem in the Task Manager list, and that was how it somehow "turned itself on" in the middle of the night last night and freaked me. ;) John thinks it might stand for Any Time Deluxe Event Manager (The software is called Anytime Deluxe Organizer). Thanks for helping us look harder and find it though. :) Nightowl >8# "Only dead fish swim with the stream."
Linda Ellerbee
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