Post #7,754
9/5/01 4:57:19 PM
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Ya know,...
in the main I think we are in agreement on most political issues. But, I cannot understand your position that there is no difference between the Republican platform and the Democratic platform. True, there is more diversity of opinion within any party in the UK, Germany, France, etc. than there is between our two largest parties. But there are some differences, however slight.
The DNC was overtaken by the Southern Leadership Conference (a move that made Bill Clinton the pres) and the Democratic Party moved right considerably. I maintain, however, that there still exists enough difference between our two parties to warrant support, in general, for the Democratic Party.
For example, the Democrats do not have the support of the Rupert Muhrdoch's, the Ralph Reed's, the Pat Robertson's, the Jerry Falwell's, etc. ad nauseum and so are not bound to their viewpoints on policy. That alone makes it a bit unfair to paint Republicans and Democrats with the same hue.
bcnu,
Mikem
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Post #7,756
9/5/01 6:05:22 PM
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Re: Ya know,...
For example, the Democrats do not have the support of the Rupert Muhrdoch's, the Ralph Reed's, the Pat Robertson's, the Jerry Falwell's, etc. ad nauseum and so are not bound to their viewpoints on policy. But they cater to their own sets of blockheads - ad nauseum. I've said before and will probably say again - I'm not registered nor wish to work with either party. Although I disagree with much of his politics, I think I could have voted for Bill Bradley over Bush, for instance. I despise the Republican party for nominating Bush - for Christ's sake, raising how many tens of millions of dollars before he had uttered one word about any issue? And I despise the Democrats for nominating Al Gore, the hear no evil, see no evil vice president. Both parties are conspirators in the plot to expand the federal government, which I consider an evil thing. Reduce, reduce, reduce! Don't squabble over a nine billion shortfall in the Social Security "trust fund" when it isn't a trust fund - find places to save the damn money. And if you are running a surplus, the Republicans pay a lip service refund check and the Democrats squalk, but both sides are going to try to spend as much of it as they possibly can. Spend, spend, spend
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Post #7,757
9/5/01 6:12:05 PM
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Nit - Democratic Leadership Conferen. (DLC) not Southern ...
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Post #7,817
9/6/01 12:16:15 PM
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Gotta start using the Preview thing, that's 2 big 1s in a wk
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Post #7,763
9/5/01 8:57:51 PM
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Agreement generally..
that we'll find the more human-sounding planks in Demo platform and, it's true - Demo group doesn't have to keep feeding Mad Uncle Harry, pay lip-service to his hateful rantings with mock solemnity; pretend it *isn't* about hate, etc.
But C. still made a bargain with the Repo-Debbil, in selling out all idea of social support for the poorest (and for their dependents), in caving -- actually coopting! the most repo of the Repubs - in so-called 'welfare reform'. Right: Move Them Out.. and on to those no-perks, no med, no vacation, no security: min-wage jobs, so as to call them now "employed". It was a rank political ploy, pure Repo behavior (really pissed off the ones he coopted) which hasn't come home to roost fully, yet..
Also, this all occurred as the 'surplus' was accruing: meanwhile, 20-25% US children are [still] below poverty line (depending on where you parse). This is not even thought disgraceful here! so what else does that say about Murica? (or about social Darwinism)
Last I heard, some 13M are due to get cut off this next year or so, with no place to go: cannot live on the laughable min wages; certainly can't hire! child care in order to show up for the 8 hours of automated drudgery that most of these jobs mean. Eat the offspring? Or let them run wild. Encouraged, naturally - via lots of tut-tuts about Personal Responsibility, from the suited bureaucrats (with full perks for Their jobs, managing 'The Poor')
But the *numbers off welfare* will Look Good\ufffd and that's all that matters to a significant slice of the Murican Peepul.
Personally I find this single C. outrage cancels out much (but not all) that he did better - and it remains true that, he may have been the most literate president in anyone's memory. Replacing C. with the village idiot, merely magnifies the quality of most of his speeches. (I also deem that, despite his idiocies - he also possesses an actual heart. Rare. Lots of Muricans are as fucked up sexually as he - just look at our entertainment, for verification)
So I still go with the Demo rhetoric over the Repub, for all obvious reasons. But it doesn't translate into likelihood of improvements in the growing rich/poor gap. The 'government' has been bought lock, stock & barrel by the International Corporate Conspiracy (WTF, TLAs are! Murica's only real 'product' anymore; the rest is farmed out on lo-bid). And the ICC doesn't care about the fate of any 'country'; certainly not about anyone who lives in any country.
Be interesting to see if Nader has learned a few things; recently heard he had come up with a platform a bit different from the Greens -- just possibly there is some alternative as could bring off what Perot might have: had he been a bit 'different' a character, stayed the course - and didn't sound like a duck. (Persona is Everything, especially here).
{sigh} I regret most, that there is no actual 'politics' here, with real 'debate' of obvious issues - just maudlin sentimentality, juvenile spin + slogans. That won't change in just 4 years. :[ We can wish.. Pigs might fly.
Ashton
Gawd. 3 years, 4 mos. 10 days of retard-English, to go..
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Post #7,823
9/6/01 12:33:26 PM
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Is there no hope for the Duma?
I'm unconvinced that this system can be altered without violent revolution. The wealth disparities are greater now than any time since Vanderbilt built his cottage in the western North Carolinian mountains.
I remember reading an article some years ago about the moniker "white trash" as applied to people from the Appalachian mountains. The article contrasted that purgorative with the "n" word and pointed out that one difference was no one claimed the "white trash" moniker applied to them. It was a purgorative without an owner. No one wants to be identified as being that poor, backward, etc.
I think a similar phenomenon occurs in Murican life. Probably less than 1 in 1,000 who do so can build a logical case to "vote Republican". In our socio-political structure, Muricans want to pretend that policies benefitting the wealthiest of Americans also benefit them - they too want to win the lottery.
This psychology, unless changed fundamentally, will forever bar any real reform in government. The best we can hope for with such a self-deluded populace is almost imperceivable incremental change.
Perhaps when the great unwashed masses are hungry enough...
Cheers, er... not really,
Mikem
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Post #7,832
9/6/01 12:54:40 PM
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Im white trash and proud of it! Have a t shirt that says so
and I know a lot of other people who will step up to claim that moniker. I have sat in a circle jerk of wuppies(whining yuppies) discussing how horrible the price of nikes are and slap my size 11's on the table and go woolworths 10 bucks. Dead silence as my friends wife starts hissing get him the hell out of here.
We are proud to shop at fleamarkets, eat at restaurants called moms and we may order snails but never escargot. We believe in recycling cars and if given a choice between a new mercedes and a 1970 charger with a 440 and a sixpack we will be painting that sucker orange this weekend. We are pro-anti NRA and loud about it. Jesse Ventura is the ultimate icon of white trash. Governor of an important state, gets in the ring as a referee, throws a rassler out of the ring while hollering tell that bastard of an old man of yours he still owes me money. We vote but mostly out of spite. Suspicious of all causes we just wish to be left alone.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
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Post #7,871
9/6/01 6:13:52 PM
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Sorry, Bill.. Catch 22 again
See, by def'n - white trash don't understand shit [either..], ain't got no subtlety and - can't say what they 'mean' nohow.
Now I'll agree that dissin' yuppie scum is indeed a sign of sentience. (local contractor's lic plate reads, Die Yuppie Scum but them're the scum what slops His trough too..) And recognizin the shallowness and purposelessness of the Acquisitors of All Things - indicates the possibility.. of havin some other idea of WTF might count (?)
So ya see the Problem: that'd make ya an er Intelleckchal White Trasher.. well OK, Gaussian curve's about everywhere, so maybe yer just
White Recyclables ?!?
:-\ufffd
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Post #7,879
9/6/01 9:19:27 PM
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white trash aint stupid, we just dont give a rats ass.
hignorant aint stupid, Dont believe me? Try to do some tradin in the mountains, Mr haney on green acres wasnt made up out of whole clothe ya know.
thanx,
bill
Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves.
Chuck Palahniuk
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Post #7,872
9/6/01 6:57:36 PM
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The Constitution is so prescient..
thus so far beyond most of its putative adherents - it provides for that very same revolution, as & when.
But that (along with such er difficult ideas as, all men are created equal - for certain values) is hardly a stressed point in the rote teaching, the memorizing of the other stirring phrases.
But 'revolution' must become a more subtle plan than, mobs with torches - if for no other reason than, we know how most of those have turned out: just change of title-holders.
Since the $ ergo the power / weapons and especially The Will - are concentrated in the few (what better 'Will' than keeping the perks you already stole?) -- an uncommon, sustained organizational process would have to occur.
Quite unlikely too IMhO: part of the masterpiece of Corporate replacing the (inept government - no longer kept honest via significant? citizen participation) - is that the sheep have accepted, *uniquely in all the world's wealthy countries*:
24/7 indentured slavery, at wages now requiring both parents to work (and thus pay child care in addition), with often 2 weeks or LESS of, merely annual respite from the daily mind-numbing office work, etc. All this infrastructure - now ovinely tolerated - works against any fresh ideas. All the Power is euphemised via claiming, being er "Conservative" and thus Good! (everyone likes 'conservation', right? nice ring to it..)
And so far they are indeed Conserving status quo: the accelerating concentration of yet more of the total, and have successfully fucked with language such that - even many of the slaves fall for the slogans!
So.. nope, no revolution or even reform til ~ even the least amongst ye see The Light, throw down thine yokes, commence developing recipes for The Rich. WTF - a few false starts are bound to happen; maybe more vinegar and salt next try, filet first?
(Of course, number among the non-combatants - those so impoverished in spirit that: bizness IS their only 'life')
Ashton the Meek
gettin ready for that promised 'inheritin the earth' BS.. so effective at mollifyin n'keepin the sheep (our Untouchable caste) safely grazin..
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