Re: Personally, I think the Linux community . .

Post #52,085 by deSitter 9/17/02 4:27:39 PM Reply	Re: Personally, I think the Linux community . . Excellent, excellent point - in other words, the "community" (commies for short) don't care about things that business workers care about - that is, actually working. Printing? Who needs that? Installation? I'm a fucking genius, why should I care? Fonts? Gimme an xterm man! I can't spell and I don't read anyway! -drl
Post #52,118 by boxley 9/17/02 8:04:03 PM Reply	"Printing" cat foo >>/dev/lp (shrug) from the nix side that is all you are doing, same as copy foo lpt1 on dos. All the other pretty stuff on dos is done by printer drivers written in PCL or Postscript. So either the printer folks need to port with a usable license it is in their interest to do so. Just like the way HP "owned" the LaserJet field in the earlies. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #52,127 by Andrew Grygus 9/17/02 10:53:40 PM Reply	Years ago, I had an O'Reilly Linux book . . . . . that purported to cover all you needed to know to run Linux. Nowhere in the book was it even mentioned that you could print from Linux, never mind how to do it. Unfortunately, I loaned it out, so I don't have it any more. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #52,130 by boxley 9/17/02 11:26:25 PM Reply	for goodness saki [link\|http://osr5doc.ca.caldera.com:1997/OSAdminG/prntT.cInterface.html\|link to general nix printing] what is dificult about that ? ]:-> thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #52,147 by Andrew Grygus 9/18/02 1:53:10 AM Reply	Ah! I see your point . . . By following your reference to details of the System V lpsched spooler (which almost works), the user will delay exposure to the gory details of the hoplessly primitive Berkeley lp spooler used by Linux. Your reference is wonderfully misleading, and would cause a Linux newby to spend endless rewarding hours of total frustration, learning completely irrelevent knowledge, for which you should be commended! Without this brilliant misdirection, he would soon be learning how wonderfully his /var/spool/lpd/okidata directory resembles the bit bucket - print jobs go in, but nothing comes out, nor any meaningful error messages. Unlike the bit bucket, however, it will eventually consume his hard disk, encouraging him to learn to su to root and use appropriate wildcards with the rm command. Oh, yes, and he will learn about "magic filters" and enscript and gs too! Some time in the unforseeable future he will come to understand Linux file permissions and ownership, and will know that Linux installed the lpd spooler daemon and /dev/lp* drivers with permissions such that the "s" attribute must be applied here and there, and that ownership of files in /var/spool/lpd/okidata must be changed to daemon, for the daemon holds high standards of morality and will not touch anything he does not own. Meanwhile, the user can just do without printing until he is worthy - but to be worthy is to be a kernel hacker, and a kernel hacker has no need for printing. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #52,150 by pwhysall 9/18/02 2:38:47 AM Reply	This is why... ...most modern distributions ship with CUPS installed by default. Personally on the Linux boxes I use that have to print, everything goes via a2ps (from the CLI) or whatever the "print" button produces (from the GUI). lpd? Get outta here! Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #52,180 by boxley 9/18/02 11:48:50 AM Reply	huh! berkley he sez vi /etc/printcap insert what you need just as you did when adding a printer to your lotus notes version iron age. Trundle down and find a place to drop files to be printed and on your way rejoicing!! Or get the Printer folks who sell printers interested in joining the linux market which was my point. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #52,604 by orion 9/21/02 11:24:37 AM Reply	Oh ho ho ho Linux is designed as a Server OS, not a Windows Clone. Do you really need to learn how to Print? O'Reilly most likely sold an extra book for that function. Not that I read them, the web based HOWTO stuff is good enough for me. The only problem I have had is the old hardware I have doesn't seem to work with the modern Linux drivers. Any Linux made from 1995 - 1997 works great, but try Red hat 7.3, SuSE 8.0, or Mandrake 8.0 and I cannot even get the GUI in X-Server to work, or connect to the Network. But, [link\|http://www.knoppix.org\|KNOPPIX] boots just fine as long as I disable the SCSI probing and other silly sht that makes it hang on my machine. I am so pssed off at the other Linux vendors, that I might just copy the KNOPPIX Linux to my Hard Drive right off the freaking CD-ROM! Don't kill me guys, but my two Linux machines are being reformatted to NT 4.0 Server and Windows 2000 Server for testing some stuff at home for what I am doing at work. Since I cannot get the VPN to see the work servers, I am setting up my own. I'll reformat them later and put Linux back on them as soon as we get the VPN working for my DSL connection and DSL Router setup. Heck I might even install Darwin if it behaves correctly and allows me to get into a GUI mode without a kernel panic or "missing font or screen" errors that the current XFree crap seems to be giving me. Even fcking Cygwin works halfssed for me, on my 98 system it ran great, came up with a GNOME GUI, etc. On my Windows 2000 Server system, it ran like sht, had the fcking paths set, followed the whole TWIKI IIS/W2K Cookbook, and the fcking thing still would not work! So, fck it, the whole hard drive gets wiped and I start over again. I got Virtual PC 4.2, and will install Linux on it and see what the fck happens. If it works, I may have to buy new hardware to run freaking Linux later on my other systems. I got a fcking network of 6 Whitebox PC systems, and fcking none of them can run Linux right except the KNOPPIX version of Linux, WTF! [link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #52,612 by pwhysall 9/21/02 12:23:22 PM Reply	The word... ...is FUCK Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #52,614 by folkert 9/21/02 12:27:23 PM Reply	Now, now ... Don't fuckig Goddam complain at me you son of a BITCH... And, Norm is jus forgeting the Calibe of peope here.... GRIN Sorry Pete... hehe `greg - Grand-Master Artist in IT, curley95@attbi.com -- [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!] Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds: Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.`
Post #52,695 by orion 9/22/02 6:24:55 PM Reply	Are we all friends again? Or do we have to start yelling "Fuck" back at each other over the Internet? Maybe I can join that IRC channel, and we can set up a macro to send "Fuck" messages at each other every 2 minutes, and then go out and eat dinner and come back and see what the other people on the channel had been sending to us. :) CRConrad, how do you say "Fuck" in the languages that you know besides English? What is it in German, "Fick"? I figured if anybody would know, it would be you. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #52,709 by folkert 9/22/02 7:09:25 PM Reply	OK! A glib comment from Norm... Excellent... Humor is always needed... As for Pete's BEF... you get the point... we are are(at least I hope....;) all BIG Humans here... I just saw... the STONED Ellen Fiess Apple commercial... I am ROTFLMO... hehehe... TAKE THAT PETE! `greg - Grand-Master Artist in IT, curley95@attbi.com -- [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!] Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds: Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.`
Post #52,712 by orion 9/22/02 7:22:46 PM Reply	Humor, yeah! Always fight back with humor, if you cannot fight them seriously, then fight them in a funny way. From time to time, I tend to channel [link\|http://onyx.he.net/~hotmoves/LIC/comics2/comics2.html\|dead comedians] like [link\|http://andykaufman.jvlnet.com/toc.htm\|Andy Kaufman] through my body, and they take over control and type on the keyboard. I am trying to hold back [link\|http://www.samkinison.org/\|Sam Kinison] so I won't have to TYPE IN CAPS AND YELL A LOT! AUUGGHHH AUUUGGGHH AUUGGHH SAY IT SAY IT! Sorry, get back Sam, maybe later. Anyway, I figure that if we have a secret weapon against the terrorists, it will be comedy and humor. Since most of the best comedians are dead, the only way we can harnest that power, is by people like me trying to learn how to channel them. *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #52,727 by Andrew Grygus 9/22/02 8:11:32 PM Reply	Gives added meaning to the Apple billboard I saw yesterday . . . "The Grass is greener" [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #53,014 by SpiceWare 9/24/02 12:05:13 PM Reply	can watch online using quicktime of course [link\|http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/\|all the ads] [link\|http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/ellenfeiss.html\|Ellen Feiss] Darrell Spice, Jr. [link\|http://home.houston.rr.com/spiceware/\|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
Post #52,617 by Andrew Grygus 9/21/02 1:01:30 PM Reply	Printserver [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #52,619 by pwhysall 9/21/02 1:18:14 PM Reply	Let's address this. We've got yet another handwaving, free-of-detail whinging post from Norm about Linux. Linux is designed as a Server OS, not a Windows Clone. Do you really need to learn how to Print? O'Reilly most likely sold an extra book for that function. Not that I read them, the web based HOWTO stuff is good enough for me. Translation: "I couldn't get it working so it sucks and I heard someone say that printing is sucky on Linux so I guess it's really hard and I'll make a snarky comment about O'Reilly books." The only problem I have had is the old hardware I have doesn't seem to work with the modern Linux drivers. Any Linux made from 1995 - 1997 works great, but try Red hat 7.3, SuSE 8.0, or Mandrake 8.0 and I cannot even get the GUI in X-Server to work, or connect to the Network. Translation: "Apparently, I'm too lazy to post details of what doesn't work and what I've tried. And I'm going to make vague, nebulous statements about mythical packages called "X-Server" and then toss in the fact that networking isn't working." But, KNOPPIX boots just fine as long as I disable the SCSI probing and other silly sht that makes it hang on my machine. I am so pssed off at the other Linux vendors, that I might just copy the KNOPPIX Linux to my Hard Drive right off the freaking CD-ROM! Translation: "Apparently, my hardware is so sucky that a distribution that works just about damn near everywhere else mysteriously doesn't boot unless I take special steps. And then I'm going to get pissed off at a bunch of vendors to whom I haven't paid a penny. Also, note the complete lack of technical detail in any statement I make about Linux." Don't kill me guys, but my two Linux machines are being reformatted to NT 4.0 Server and Windows 2000 Server for testing some stuff at home for what I am doing at work. Translation: "I'm going back to my Microsoft software, because that's what I know." Heck I might even install Darwin if it behaves correctly and allows me to get into a GUI mode without a kernel panic or "missing font or screen" errors that the current XFree crap seems to be giving me. Even fcking Cygwin works halfssed for me, on my 98 system it ran great, came up with a GNOME GUI, etc. Translation: "I'm going to wave another buzzword around, and then start whaling on a piece of software that works great for everyone else but I can't seem to get going. Then I'm going to go off on a tangent about an unrelated piece of software on a different operating system." [note: You have never had a GNOME desktop on Cygwin/XFree86. Trust me on this. ] On my Windows 2000 Server system, it ran like sht, had the fcking paths set, followed the whole TWIKI IIS/W2K Cookbook, and the fcking thing still would not work! So, fck it, the whole hard drive gets wiped and I start over again. I got Virtual PC 4.2, and will install Linux on it and see what the fck happens. If it works, I may have to buy new hardware to run freaking Linux later on my other systems. I got a fcking network of 6 Whitebox PC systems, and fcking none of them can run Linux right except the KNOPPIX version of Linux, WTF! Translation: "Blah blah blah blah Windows 2000 blah blah Twiki blah blah IIS blah blah Knoppix." It's getting old, Norm. Peter* [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #52,660 by boxley 9/21/02 7:45:59 PM Reply	well if you have never been under the hood of nix the x install if it doesnt work via a probe is sucky as shit and as intuitive as my non technical posts. I have had to hack the xconfig file for off breed cards the drivers cant identify. Cant expect Norm to get it right off the top. Isnt the point to be able to use the tool for the job as opposed to using the tool cause it is cool? thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #52,669 by pwhysall 9/22/02 1:19:22 PM Reply	I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about his continuous wailing and gnashing of teeth, yet persistent refusal to say what video card won't work on what motherboard. That's just whining for the sake of it, rather than an attempt to get some of the very clever people who read this board to help. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #52,699 by orion 9/22/02 6:33:35 PM Reply	Oh forbid that I could ever get anyone from here to help me without making some sort of snide comment or calling me an idiot for asking for help. RTFM Norm! Yeah I did, now what, it didn't work. Give me the error, "Missing Fixed Width Font", not specific enough, it would be nice if it told me what font it found missing now would it? Rather than use your infinte knowledge and give me some things to try, or ask me to send to configuration files via email, you just call me a whiner instead. Thanks so much Peter, calling me a whiner has magically made my Red Hat Linux 7.3 work again. At least, in Virtual PC 4.2 under Windows 2000 Server, not on the two other workstations that I wanted it on, but oh well, what can you do when you are a "fucking whiner" because the software is not working with the hardware? You seem to forget that I am trying to move over to Linux, yet you keep confusing me with one of those foaming at the mouth Pro-Microsoft fanbodys going on an AntiLinux rant. Gee I wonder why the rest of the world hasn't adopted Linux yet? It seems like such an easy to use OS, with nice and friendly people on the Internet who go out of their way to help you, and not treat you like a redheaded stepchild and call you names or anything when you ask for help, tell them the problems you had, and spell the name of a product wrong. Gee I wonder why it is that so many people switch back to Windows? ;) *[link\|http://games.speakeasy.net/data/files/khan.jpg\|"Khan!!!" -Kirk]*
Post #52,784 by static 9/23/02 2:00:12 AM Reply	Froth and suds. I don't mind you venting, Norm, but it's difficult to discern when you want help and when you're just letting it all out. Might I suggest that the Flame forum is equally valid for value-free venting over things - e.g. Linux! - as well as people. Wade. "Ah. One of the difficult questions."
Post #52,643 by folkert 9/21/02 6:13:25 PM Reply	Very good suggestions... Personally I'd like to suggest [link\|http://thecheeseshop.com/cgi/SoftCart.exe/scstore/p-0054.html?L+scstore+aqaw0270+1032655605\|this], and [link\|http://thecheeseshop.com/cgi/SoftCart.exe/scstore/p-0051.html?E+scstore\|this]. Oh but [link\|http://thecheeseshop.com/cgi/SoftCart.exe/scstore/p-0154.html?L+scstore+aqaw0270+1032650947\|this] really does have some good points about it. Oh, Norm will need to get one of [link\|http://www.bacchuscellars.com/wine_accessories/redwood_cube.htm\|These], if he is going to continue on. But enough about that... now onto [link\|http://www.worldpantry.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=72038&prrfnbr=77332\|these] delicate morsels... but then [link\|http://www.worldpantry.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=72038&prrfnbr=77359\|these] are for more of the distinguishing person. Any other opinions on these very specific complaints? `greg - Grand-Master Artist in IT, curley95@attbi.com -- [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!!!] Your friendly Homeland Security Officer reminds: Hold Thumbprint to Screen for 5 seconds, we'll take the imprint, or Just continue to type on your keyboard, and we'll just sample your DNA.`
Post #52,151 by pwhysall 9/18/02 2:40:36 AM Reply	And what, pray, does the "Linux Community" owe you? Sweet diddly squat, that's what. Apologies for shouting, but: STOP WHINING AND DO SOMETHING OTHERWISE GO AND BUY A PROPRIETARY OS. FILE A FUCKING BUG ALREADY. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]

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