I've seen too much bad reporting to take things at "face value".

Post #406,037 by Another Scott 11/6/15 10:04:08 AM Reply	I've seen too much bad reporting to take things at "face value". Especially about politics, especially about Hillary. Here's the whole interview video - http://www.wmur.com/politics/hillary-clinton-oneonone/36102436 (7:29) I don't have time to watch it now. I haven't seen a full transcript. If I get time, I'll have a more detailed response sometime later... Cheers, Scott.
Post #406,063 by mmoffitt 11/6/15 3:02:10 PM Reply	Starts around 2:21. I hope you do watch it.
Post #406,076 by Another Scott 11/6/15 9:55:04 PM Reply	I did. See my reply below. It really is a nothingburger, IMO. It reminds me of something at the first Democratic debate where she acted like she came up with some zinger and seemed proud of herself. I don't think it's an effective tactic for her, but I don't think most people care either way. I don't think a little subtle dog-whistle name-calling is sufficient excuse to not vote for someone. Bernie's a smart man and he knows how politics is played. Look at the Forum with Rachel tonight for his counter-punching. Cheers, Scott.
Post #406,064 by mmoffitt 11/6/15 3:13:00 PM Reply	Here's the "He's not a racist, but, ..." crap. 6:30 to 7:30. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EIFarEZpvE
Post #406,075 by Another Scott 11/6/15 9:49:37 PM Reply	Meh. She's not calling Bernie a racist. Yes, she's dog whistling a little, just like her "hard working Americans, white Americans" remark in Pennsylvania. She's drawing a distinction in a crude way. She has a history of doing that. That doesn't mean she's calling him racist or sexist or whatever. She's a lawyer by training. She knows how to leave an impression without saying something directly. People are free to vote the way they want, of course. If she's the nominee of the Democratic Party, she'll have my vote even with her dog whistles and her other issues. I recognize that people aren't perfect but that some are better than others in politics. YMMV. Cheers, Scott.
Post #406,084 by pwhysall 11/7/15 3:14:55 AM Reply	Exactly. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. So your next pres is HRC. OH NOES A CLINTON IN THE WHITE HOUSE ERMERGERD SOCIALISM BENGHAZI WHATEVS. The alternative (which, for the avoidance of doubt, is not Sanders) is worse. Much, much worse.
Post #406,086 by Another Scott 11/7/15 8:36:32 AM Reply	Yup. It amazes me how so many on the Left don't seem to see that.
Post #406,087 by hnick 11/7/15 9:06:01 AM Reply	It's a language thing The "perfect" is not being the enemy of the "good". It's being somewhat antagonistic to triangulating frauds who make pretty speeches based on polls and then actually do what big money pays them to do. Hillary vs. the GOTP candidate is very little difference. We might (not will) get a few frills, and the cost will be that all the right wing bullshit she will pass through will, in the future, if we have one, will be blamed on the Democratic party. But Supreme Court Judges!!! She will nominate whoever she's told to nominate; I wouldn't make any assumptions. Will a RWNJ nominate a neanderthal? Sure. Will she? If big money insists yes, then yes, otherwise she might be decent. Big money may allow slightly liberal people on the SC just to keep the game going longer. There is a finite chance I may be getting cynical, but I don't think automatically voting D is a panacea when the D candidate has the same paymaster as the R candidate. Your mileage WILL vary... "Religion, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable." ~ AMBROSE BIERCE (1842-1914)
Post #406,100 by mmoffitt 11/7/15 3:31:55 PM 11/7/15 3:33:31 PM Reply	I see it differently. More than any election in my memory, this is our last gasp at saving a government "of, by and for..." Hillary is not the candidate that can break the back of the oligarchy. Bernie is. The Left of this country (such as it is) will either choose to reject oligarchy and nominate Bernie, or they won't. I can't see any real Progressive ever winning the nomination of the Democratic Party if one doesn't win this time (you will recall that I predicted the dangers of allowing Obama to pass as a Progressive in '07). If, we, the People, choose to be serfs to the monied class (by electing Hillary and giving us YAN false choice in the general election), then I will vote Republican because I am simultaneously tired of the "We have to stick with these Billionaire Class serfs to Wall Street because at least they aren't simultaneously Evangelical nutjobs" argument from the, cough, Left and the massive crowd of idiots who make less than 300,000/year and continue to support RW Asshats on the Right. If this is what "the People" want, then let's give them the full dose of what they're asking for. Edited by mmoffitt Nov. 7, 2015, 03:32:10 PM EST Edited by mmoffitt Nov. 7, 2015, 03:33:31 PM EST Expand All History
Post #406,101 by mmoffitt 11/7/15 3:32:48 PM 11/7/15 3:33:16 PM Reply	Oops. Edited by mmoffitt Nov. 7, 2015, 03:33:16 PM EST Expand All History
Post #406,104 by Another Scott 11/7/15 3:53:37 PM Reply	If we were electing a King you'd have a stronger point. We're not. Bernie by himself is not going to get anything done. The Senate and House aren't suddenly going to roll over and pass anything he wants. As you know as well as anyone, Jimmy Carter tried to do a lot of progressive things. He was blocked in many of them. He didn't have enough support in his own party. Progress is slow. It takes time. It requires much more than one person. Beating up on Democrats as being in the pockets of the oligarchs just like the Republicans feeds those memes that help reduce the likelihood of positive change happening. Bernie can't succeed without more Democrats even if many/most of them are in the pocket of Wall Street. So, support Bernie all you want, but if he's elected and doesn't have substantial coattails that let him get his proposals passed, then be prepared to Bernie to be this generation's "Jimmy Carter" and say goodbye to another Progressive being elected to the White House for another 50 years. If you want Bernie, then you need to elect Ds along with him. So I assume you give to the DCCC and DSCC at the end of every month when they have their triple match? To make sure Bernie has coat-tails. Right? ;-) I don't think Bernie would be happy with you voting Republican, myself. You saw him call them cowards, right? (A righteous rant on his part, in his conversation with Rachel last night.) FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #406,107 by crazy 11/7/15 9:02:54 PM Reply	If Bernie loses the primary And then endorses hrc, what will you do?
Post #406,111 by boxley 11/7/15 9:57:17 PM Reply	join the 64% of electorate that doesnt repo or dem and vote for Jesse you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #406,113 by Another Scott 11/7/15 10:18:33 PM 11/7/15 11:29:58 PM Reply	Jackson, Ventura, or 867-5309? 867-5309 is Jenny, not Jesse. But it seemed close enough at the time... :-/ Edited by Another Scott Nov. 7, 2015, 11:29:58 PM EST Expand All History
Post #406,114 by boxley 11/7/15 10:31:18 PM Reply	if it is HRC vs a bushlike he is considering getting the libertarian nomination that way he can get on the ballot in all 50 states. If it is HRC and trump he may sit back and watch. Do you know who goes first? If HRC is the nominee, the repo's will give trump the job so the real pol class wont get hurt in the general. There are enough 64% of the electorate that doesnt like either party. Leaves plenty of room for a 3rd outsider. you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #406,116 by Another Scott 11/7/15 11:42:03 PM Reply	Meh. He's just making noises. He doesn't know what he wants to do - except he wants to be in the lime-light. KARE11: Although he hasn't made up his mind, there has been talk about him running as a Libertarian at the party's convention next year. In typical fashion, Minnesota's 38th Governor provided a great tease. "There's no guarantee I'll do it, but rest assured like the good frogman that I am, I'll be laying in the weeds in Mexico watching and listening," he said. It has been tumultuous few years for Ventura who has considered moving down to Mexico full time where he has a home. Cheers, Scott.
Post #406,120 by boxley 11/8/15 1:55:12 AM Reply	more compelling than its my turn you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #406,122 by mmoffitt 11/8/15 11:11:46 AM Reply	If Bernie doesn't win the primary, I'll be guided by the Republican outcome. If it's Trump, I'll vote for Trump. If it's anyone else, I'll probably stay at home.
Post #406,124 by Another Scott 11/8/15 11:56:18 AM Reply	Because Trump is so much better than Hillary. (roll-eyes). New Yorker: Dnald Trump was at his most bombastic this week in Washington. “We are led by stupid, stupid people—very, very stupid people,” he shouted at a rally on Wednesday held to protest the Iran nuclear deal. Three days earlier, he had embarrassed himself—if he is capable of embarrassment—by commenting on a recent SurveyUSA poll showing that he would beat Hillary Clinton in a head-to-head race. “Thank you!” he tweeted, with a link to an article about the poll. The story he cited was actually from Iran’s Press TV, the English-language and quasi-propagandistic news outlet of the Iranian regime. At the rally, which was held on the steps of the Capitol, Trump called the agreement between Iran and the world’s six major powers the worst deal—of any kind, apparently—in his lifetime. “So I’ve been doing deals for a long time,” he told the crowd. “I’ve been making lots of wonderful deals, great deals. That’s what I do. Never, ever, ever in my life have I seen any transaction so incompetently negotiated as our deal with Iran. And I mean never.” The shallowness (and callousness) of Trump’s grasp of foreign policy became even clearer when he addressed the complex issue of American hostages detained in Iran, including a former F.B.I. agent who was last sighted there. “If I win the Presidency, I guarantee you that those four prisoners are back in our country before I ever take office,” he said at the rally. “They will be back before I ever take office, because they”—the Iranians—“know that’s what has to happen, O.K.? They know it. And if they don’t know it, I’m telling them right now.” Accentuate the differences! Even if it means supporting your oppressors!! :-/ Cheers, Scott.
Post #406,125 by boxley 11/8/15 12:44:12 PM Reply	Re: Because Hillary is so much better than Saunders. (roll-eyes). you can kill people for America at age 18 but need to be 21 to buy a beer
Post #406,127 by Another Scott 11/8/15 1:33:11 PM Reply	I don't plan on voting for her in the primary (at this point).
Post #406,167 by mmoffitt 11/9/15 8:24:12 AM Reply	Because Trump gives them the full dose better than the rest.
Post #406,168 by Another Scott 11/9/15 10:29:44 AM Reply	How'd that work out for Democratic Kampuchea? Purity is dangerous. Accentuating the differences to the point of supporting your oppressors is dangerous. Cheers, Scott.
Post #406,169 by a6l6e6x 11/9/15 11:43:06 AM Reply	"Cutting off the nose to spite the face?" It's tradition! :) Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #406,171 by mmoffitt 11/9/15 1:41:17 PM Reply	As your candidate said in response to Bernie, "This is the United States." Where money, not the People rule. A vote for Hillary is a vote to continue that, plain and simple.

Welcome to IWETHEY!