Going off-piste a bit: China owns the USA

Post #380,549 by pwhysall 9/13/13 1:58:46 AM Reply	Going off-piste a bit: China owns the USA So yeah, Li's perception of China being an equal to the USA is probably grounded. America is a noob. The country has existed for a couple of hundred years and yes, is doing really well at the moment. But bear in mind that it's only two generations ago that, relatively speaking, the UK's global empire dwarfed the current American one, by all meaningful metrics - force projection ability, economy, countries under the jackbooted heel - and history shows just how that turned out for us. (Although we are spanking the colonials at cricket these days, so we'll take that as a triumph of empire) I vaguely recall an anecdote about some diplomatic negotiations or other, and China put a proposition on the table. The Americans said, "but that'll take over a hundred years!", and the Chinese said, "We'll wait." Sheer weight of numbers and current economic progress would tend to indicate that the near future belongs to India and China, and further out, if they ever sort themselves the fuck out (which seems to be far from a given), the Africans. I think the middle-east is unlikely to attain any significance, as once the oil runs out, they'll be dependent on the global market for sand and fundamentalist religion, which is somewhat less lucrative.
Post #380,553 by CRConrad 9/13/13 4:35:03 AM Reply	Two things: A) The market for sand may not be so great, but fundamentalism seems to be selling quite well. B) That spanking is only because even the colonies are more and more just shrugging at the whole sport. -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #380,557 by pwhysall 9/13/13 7:01:38 AM Reply	On B) notsureifserious.gif You certainly don't have much contact with saffas, injuns, windians or convicts if you think that's the case.
Post #380,573 by CRConrad 9/13/13 9:36:37 AM Reply	No, of course I don't know. Because, after all... ...who gives a fuck? -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #380,583 by pwhysall 9/13/13 10:23:12 AM Reply	Poms, saffas, windians, injuns and convicts, that's who. Even the jockanesians and oirish are trying to get in on it.
Post #380,602 by malraux 9/13/13 5:26:18 PM Reply	Cricket: CalvinBall with big sticks and sweaters. Regards, -scott Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson.
Post #380,607 by CRConrad 9/13/13 6:17:01 PM Reply	'Xackly. Almost as weird as, say, baseball.
Post #380,608 by Another Scott 9/13/13 6:18:39 PM Reply	:-) I've tried to watch some matches occasionally, and I've skimmed through the rules on Wikipedia, but its very very strange. The bowler can't/must have a bend in his arm? WTF? And there was some famous bowler who had a birth defect that made his deformity perfect to satisfy the rule or something... Yeah, this guy (or someone like him) - http://static.espncr...et-on-Murali.html The jargon is a little thick on that page, though: The most bizarre irony in world cricket is that the brilliant Sri Lankan spinner Muttiah Muralitharan is perhaps the only Test slow bowler on Planet Earth who legitimately bowls the off-spinner's wrongun, the "doosra". Does Pakistan's Saqlain or India's Harbijhan really bowl the other one? Or is their method of delivering the doosra acheieved with a flawed action? Um, what? :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #380,612 by Ashton 9/13/13 6:53:01 PM Reply	That's Enough.. to quell any further delving here.
Post #380,616 by pwhysall 9/13/13 8:06:48 PM Reply	Not difficult The bowler must bowl the ball, not throw it.
Post #380,618 by CRConrad 9/13/13 8:14:48 PM Reply	How many wickets must he knock down for a strike?
Post #380,623 by Another Scott 9/13/13 9:12:39 PM Reply	A googlie of them. HTH!
Post #380,558 by pwhysall 9/13/13 7:04:08 AM Reply	On A) Seems to me that the defence against the fundies (certainly for Islam) is an educated and comfortable middle-class - which is (eventually) a by-product of economic advancement. Once you get to that point, they all convert to fundamentalist CoE, and then it's cake or death.
Post #380,572 by CRConrad 9/13/13 9:35:40 AM Reply	Yeah, but when all they've got to export is sand... ...and fundamentalism, where is that educated and comfortable middle-class going to come from? As I understood it, they're not building one even now, while they still do have oil. Oh, OK, you mean as the rest of the world goes middle class, there won't be any markets for them to export it to? Yeah, let's at least hope so... But the Middle Easterners will still have an abundant supply, should any part of the world ever run out. -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #380,574 by mmoffitt 9/13/13 9:39:48 AM Reply	I wouldn't look for an enlightened Middle Class here. The middle class here (such as it is) cannot afford education. Our right wing governors are busy privatizing K-12 education and post-secondary educations (even at state universities) are becoming well out of reach of the middle class here. Caveat: the solution here is consistent with our government's solution for everything - have college students start their death spiral of debt to Wall Street banksters even before they graduate. That's "working" for now, but I don't think it will last.
Post #380,560 by Another Scott 9/13/13 7:23:51 AM Reply	Disagree, at least in emphasis. Good points about the UK; but that points more to the dangers of empire, doesn't it? A few counter-points. 1) China doesn't have much choice but to buy US dollars. Their economy would collapse without a cheap Reminmbi/Yuan. They don't "own the US" in any real sense. http://www.theguardi...economics-economy China is already losing business to cheaper countries (Vietnam, etc., etc.). 2) Egypt's culture is older than China's - they're not doing so well these days... :-( Of course, China has had an amazing growth spurt the last 30-ish years. But every economy over-extends itself at some point. Their labor costs are rising; corruption is a huge problem; overbuilding in housing is a huge problem. If they have a bad recession in the next few years, there's no telling how far back they'll fall. Remember when Japan was going to rule the world economy? India has similar problems in may respects, but with a nasty border and territorial dispute to boot... Additional progress in China and India are not inevitable. There are worrying signs of increasing stratification there, and it only takes a few people to start a revolution if things go pear shaped... While revolutions are often necessary to bring social and economic change, they do have a habit of making things worse for the masses at least (in the best cases) in the short run. I agree that Africa has lots of promise, but who knows what the world will be like without cheap transportation fuels. :-/ 3) When countries have a lot of money, for even a few decades or so, they can do their long-term prospects a lot of good. Take, maybe, Norway - http://en.wikipedia....um_Fund_of_Norway . The sandy countries could build themselves a great future with all that oil wealth, but they seem to be more interested in conspicuous consumption and religious fundamentalism in too many cases. On the larger point, yes, the US shouldn't stomp around like it owns the world any more. And the US president shouldn't be able to blow up facilities in another country on just his say-so. I think Obama believes that as well, and that's one of the reasons why he's handling this the way he has - he wants the UN and the rest of the world to stand up and participate in enforcing its noble words about CWs. He wants a different, better world in the next 10-50 years. We'll see if his approach bears fruit or not. Thanks. Cheers, Scott.
Post #380,563 by pwhysall 9/13/13 7:46:53 AM Reply	What makes you say that? Progress in India and China absolutely is inevitable. There is no evidence to think otherwise. It's hard to think what could make Indian society more stratified - after all, this is the society that for the past couple of thousand years has had an "untouchable" caste! If anything, Indian society is, as a result of economic progress and Western (by which I do of course mean British) influence, de-stratifying (a bit, and slowly). I'm not going to speculate on what Obama wants - I'm going to see what he does. And what he does, like his predecessor, is go around freeing the shit out of people.
Post #380,566 by Another Scott 9/13/13 8:22:34 AM Reply	Depends on the time scale. Progress isn't linear. It's hard to make extrapolations given the rapid change in the world over the last 50 years or so, but we know that people can't eliminate business cycles, panics, etc. Again, look at Japan. Bubbles happen and can be very destructive. Given the speed and ease of moving money around these days, China and (even more-so) India will hurt very quickly if their economies enter a severe downturn. The widening gap between the rich and the rest of us is a big problem around the world. http://www.economist.com/node/21564414 - a good story(, but taxes do have a large role to play). Watching actions is a good idea. That's why Putin shouldn't pay attention to the chattering classes over here. ;-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #380,568 by pwhysall 9/13/13 8:37:46 AM Reply	Japan is just fine. Fiat currency means that government debt is not the same as personal debt, and by all the accepted metrics, Japan is a great place to live, notwithstanding the contents of some of the vending machines, and will be for the foreseeable. Now, Greece. There's a place with a problem. You need better examples, dude.
Post #380,569 by Another Scott 9/13/13 9:14:54 AM Reply	Heh. Deflation isn't good in general, and is particularly bad in countries with large poor populations that are rapidly growing. Japan has been struggling since their property/stock bubble burst around 1991. They're just starting to finally climb out of the pit that caused. There have been wrenching changes there even though, on the surface, things don't look too bad. ~ 4% unemployment looks great! But it used to be around 2%... China is a special case, having a large foreign-exchange horde. But even they are not immune to market forces. And they're still a poor country in many, many respects. India even more so (without the huge $ reserves that China has). Will they all dodge the bullets? Maybe. We'll see. Cheers, Scott.
Post #380,564 by pwhysall 9/13/13 7:54:59 AM Reply	Norway is very different from the sandy oily countries Tiny population, long history of parliamentary democracy, very low levels of poverty, massively high standards of living, highly-developed infrastructure, incredibly liberal; basically, if you're not one of those folks who's entirely too interested in the bedroom and bodily habits of other people, it's an all-around great place to live. As long as you like rain. Compare to somewhere like Saudi Arabia: Big population, only existed since 1932, huge levels of poverty, wildly varying standards of living, no real infrastructure outside the cities, as uptight as a gnat's chuff about absolutely everything, dreadful human rights record, and if you're not a rich male Arabic-speaking Muslim, a right shithole in which to live.
Post #380,567 by Another Scott 9/13/13 8:29:02 AM Reply	Good points. But things don't change unless people change them. Money is a big enabler if used wisely was my main point. It's hard to do, especially given all the problems you mention, but it can be done. Cheers, Scott.
Post #380,576 by CRConrad 9/13/13 9:40:54 AM Reply	In its defense-as opposed to Norway-Saudi is pretty great... ...if you don't like rain. ;-/ -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #380,580 by Another Scott 9/13/13 10:07:51 AM Reply	rofl.
Post #380,582 by folkert 9/13/13 10:17:04 AM Reply	Re: In its defense-as opposed to Norway-Saudi is pretty grea Hey... Saudi Arabia can "pound sand all day long" for all I care. -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec

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