I thought you, like Twain, liked an inactive Congress.

Post #298,773 by Another Scott 11/2/08 12:38:04 PM Reply	I thought you, like Twain, liked an inactive Congress. Something like, "It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." - Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar :-) Yeah, Reid and Pelosi didn't do much of anything except: Increase the minimum wage for the first time in ages, increase fuel efficiency standards for the first time in ages^2, rescue the world's financial system after it was nearly destroyed by action and inaction by the Republicans, etc. More is here: http://speaker.house.gov/about/ HTH! ;-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #298,775 by beepster 11/2/08 12:43:14 PM Reply	Rescue what???? They transferred 1T of your money to Wall Street...and nothing anywhere says we are out of the hole yet. And some of the really good news...the amount of money to some of the houses on Wall Street doesn't even cover their existing BONUS debt to execs. But did they make sure that the money couldn't go to that? Nope. I'd say you may want to hold off on congratulating them yet on that score. Ooh..and increasing fuel standards...does that solve anything???? Really? Will it help Detroit...or will it continue to favor Japanese and Korean companies that already meet and exceed those standards. But wait...they'll still get to save the economy..by giving more than the 25B they've already guaranteed to the automakers to bail them out too. So...they raised the min wage. Hurray. I'll be able to buy a couple more watermelons every July in celebration of my new National Holiday.
Post #298,781 by boxley 11/2/08 1:33:18 PM Reply	WTF are you smokin? rescue the world's financial system after it was nearly destroyed by action and inaction by the Republicans, etc. how did they do that? since the fucking meltdown isnt over yet and the only thing they have done is handed the treasury the money they asked for ans some extra money they didnt ask for Yes, Virginia, there really is an Obama Claus. You can hear him shouting, "On Pelosi, on Reid, on Kennedy, on Biden. Cash away, cash away, cash away all!"
Post #298,797 by Another Scott 11/2/08 4:20:05 PM Reply	Are you forgetting that the House Repubs voted against it? There's a lot to criticize about the bail out package, but things have gotten marginally better since it passed (at least as far as tightness in the credit markets is concerned). Have you forgotten how bad it was in the weeks after mid-September? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_crisis_of_2008 Remember Paulson's plan was 3 pages with no oversight and a blank check. The final bill, passed by the Democrats after substantial additions in the Senate, was far from perfect but much better. Do you think that things would have turned out half as well if Reps. Boehner, Cantor and Blunt and their colleagues had had their way? http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/220659.php FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #298,798 by boxley 11/2/08 4:47:47 PM Reply	that package saved the world? The dems were going to vote FOR the 3 page no oversight bill and the republicans and blue dog democrats stopped them. That fact thingy gets in the way of the democratic message Yes, Virginia, there really is an Obama Claus. You can hear him shouting, "On Pelosi, on Reid, on Kennedy, on Biden. Cash away, cash away, cash away all!"
Post #298,800 by Another Scott 11/2/08 4:57:36 PM Reply	That's not quite how it happened... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008 === begin cut === The original proposal was three pages, as submitted to the United States House of Representatives. The purpose of the plan was to purchase bad assets, reduce uncertainty regarding the worth of the remaining assets, and restore confidence in the credit markets. The text of the proposed law was expanded to 110 pages and was put forward as an amendment to H.R. 3997.[1] The amendment was rejected via a vote of the House of Representatives on September 29, 2008, by a margin of 228-205.[2] On October 1, 2008, the Senate debated and voted on an amendment to H.R. 1424, which substituted a newly revised version of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 for the language of H.R. 1424.[3][4] The Senate accepted the amendment and passed the entire amended bill by a vote of 74-25.[5] Additional unrelated provisions added an estimated $150 billion to the cost of the package and increased the size of the bill to 451 pages.[6][7] See Public Law 110-343 for details on the added provisions. The amended version of H.R. 1424 was sent to the House for consideration, and on October 3, the House voted 263-171 to enact the bill into law.[3][8][9] President Bush signed the bill into law within hours of its enactment, creating a $700 billion Troubled Assets Relief Program to purchase failing bank assets.[10] [...] === end cut === HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #298,801 by boxley 11/2/08 5:06:22 PM Reply	that cant be right, there is only 202 republicans so want to tell me again how it was the republicans that stopped the first bill? Why not just admit that the first go round sucked badly, second wasnt much better, just fatter but bi-partisan Yes, Virginia, there really is an Obama Claus. You can hear him shouting, "On Pelosi, on Reid, on Kennedy, on Biden. Cash away, cash away, cash away all!"
Post #298,807 by Another Scott 11/2/08 5:26:58 PM Reply	You like right-shifts, don't you. ;-) We all know that neither side liked the idea of a Wall Street bailout. The only way it was going to pass was if there was credible signs of bi-partisanship from both sides. The Democrats weren't going to take the fall alone for this package. I can't find a link, but in the initial House vote, the Republicans were something like 12 votes short of what their leadership had promised. The Democrats supplied their votes - if the Republicans had supplied all they promised, the bill would have passed. Oh, don't forget that the Republicans were initially demanding a "clean bill": http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13675.html Pelosi, on the other hand, said from the beginning that she wasn't going to give Paulson a "blank check": http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/21/politics/politico/thecrypt/main4463510.shtml If you're concerned about protecting the taxpayer and want oversight, you should be happy that Barack and Nancy got their way. HTH! ;-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #298,813 by boxley 11/2/08 7:05:53 PM Reply	Im just glad chambly and stevens kept pelosi and reid honest Yes, Virginia, there really is an Obama Claus. You can hear him shouting, "On Pelosi, on Reid, on Kennedy, on Biden. Cash away, cash away, cash away all!"
Post #298,823 by crazy 11/2/08 8:20:42 PM Reply	No matter how much good comes out of the next administration, you'll NEVER be happy. Know why? There will be bargaining. In the bargaining, some will gain pork. You know it'll happen. So, if the goal of the side that wants the "pure" bill, the wonderful "who the fuck knows will cure cancer bill", but others (in both parties) know that they can get pork added if they resist, so the "pure" side gives in and lets it happen, since they are sure their bill is the best thing that could happen to this country, and the pork they use to grease it through will let it happen. So let's say that bill does actually what it was supposed to do. You'll say: Those f'ing tax and spend democrats, you know they screwed us with that bill because Pelosi threw some pork into her district. So it really doesn't matter what you think, since you are a true believer, and no matter what happens, it'll fail your litmus test. Beep at least seems (or pretends well enough) to have plausible deniability on his rants, ie: given more information he might be persuaded that he might look at your side of the argument. On the other hand, I always supect him of a religious hidden agenda. While it very rarely comes out, I know it has a very strong influence on him. So he has his own set of litmus tests, but they aren't discussed.
Post #298,827 by Another Scott 11/2/08 8:29:42 PM Reply	I think you're misreading Box. Remember, he voted for Obama in the primary. He also was a big supporter of Uncle Ted Stevens - including supporting Stevens's shipping pork back to Alaska. Box gets upset when civil liberties votes don't go the way he thinks they should. When that happens, Hell hath no fury... I think he likes arguing with me, too. ;-) HTH! Cheers, Scott.
Post #298,831 by boxley 11/2/08 8:41:32 PM Reply	no I dont :-) Yes, Virginia, there really is an Obama Claus. You can hear him shouting, "On Pelosi, on Reid, on Kennedy, on Biden. Cash away, cash away, cash away all!"
Post #298,830 by boxley 11/2/08 8:41:02 PM Reply	dunno about religious agenda I belong to a congregation of one :-) freedom baby, thats where its at. Dont care about useful pork care about folks who pretend that all they need is a turn at the trough and things will be better, because all too often the true believers buy that Dont want to be safe, I would rather be free and both candidates voted to ensure that the screws of the man will be tightened to my personal detriment. My liberty and privacy are reduced to shit heads in aviator shades with tasers and chewing gum. Let mamound's boys come, we will survive then go kill them at home. The nsa boys playing a tape of a poor lonely soldier talking sex talk with his wife for the amusement of the other security creatures, that is what voting against the last patriot act bill would have stopped, nope dear leader signed on as did pappy that is why I wont vote for him Yes, Virginia, there really is an Obama Claus. You can hear him shouting, "On Pelosi, on Reid, on Kennedy, on Biden. Cash away, cash away, cash away all!"
Post #298,835 by crazy 11/2/08 8:52:07 PM Reply	Fine, you've stated your test Then the discussion is over, except for the entertainment value. I agree with you that the bill sucked, has been horrible for the country, yadda yadda yadda. Now, back to today's world. You asshole. Make a decision based on the world you live in and the options that are in front of you.
Post #298,836 by crazy 11/2/08 8:56:21 PM 11/2/08 8:57:22 PM Reply	One more thing <b> The nsa boys playing a tape of a poor lonely soldier talking sex talk with his wife for the amusement of the other security creatures, that is what voting against the last patriot act bill would have stopped, nope dear leader signed on as did pappy </b> Bullshit. The patriot bill did not authorise ANY of that. That was pure illegal, Bush simply used the patriot as cover. He would have done it anyway, and used some other legal fiction. Edit: How do I bold or left bar, etc? Edited by crazy Nov. 2, 2008, 08:57:22 PM EST Expand All History
Post #298,837 by beepster 11/2/08 9:05:23 PM Reply	Funny you still think all that started with Bush and/or the Patriot Act How quaint.
Post #298,839 by crazy 11/2/08 9:29:59 PM 11/2/08 9:39:33 PM Reply	Not at all Just that particular violation was after that bill. If you reread it, I said the patriot bill had nothing to do with it. Box was the one who said otherwise. And while I fully expect anyone in power to abuse it, the recent history shows Bush is both irrational and abused it. I'd prefer someone rational. And I don't think McCain is anymore. Edited by crazy Nov. 2, 2008, 09:39:33 PM EST Expand All History
Post #298,842 by boxley 11/2/08 9:40:39 PM Reply	Re: One more thing the patriot act allows the government to do whatever it wishs establishing the immunity of any business entity that breaks the law while helping the government, legal cover for all of that now you say I should ignore that Okay, ignoring that gives me a plausable calm black guy who is exactly like the crazy old fart, who uses advisors just as dirty in the financial meltdown as the crazy old fart. Voted with mccain 90% of the time and is more of the same with the exception a bullet proof majority in the legislative arena We have had 6 years of that followed by 2 years of nothing and how sis that work out for the country. The smart vote is a veto proof legslative arena and a president of the other party. That is the smart move because I cant vote for the crazy old fart for the same reasons I cant vote for the black guy I voted for Bob Barr. you want a train wreck like shrubs first term with the house and senate rubber stamping every cheny idea feel free. If you dont think there is a cheney like person waiting in the wings, I got a bridge in brooklyn for sale. Yes, Virginia, there really is an Obama Claus. You can hear him shouting, "On Pelosi, on Reid, on Kennedy, on Biden. Cash away, cash away, cash away all!"
Post #298,843 by crazy 11/2/08 9:45:43 PM Reply	Windmills dude ~1%
Post #298,845 by boxley 11/2/08 10:46:43 PM Reply	yup, have the scars to prove it Yes, Virginia, there really is an Obama Claus. You can hear him shouting, "On Pelosi, on Reid, on Kennedy, on Biden. Cash away, cash away, cash away all!"

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