That last statement's problematic

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Post #288,793 by jake123 7/12/07 3:08:36 PM Reply	That last statement's problematic after all, most of the rest of the west has figured out how to do health insurance by the state without government being as "big a problem as the rest of the industry." Simply put, the scientific method would seem to indicate that the last statement is just wrong.
Post #288,796 by bepatient 7/12/07 4:27:18 PM Reply	As you are so fond of noticing we are not the rest of the west. And there is large scale debate as to who has "figured out" what in this. We still import alot of medical procedures. The issue in our system, and the >current< government system that we have is that its simply a shell game. Dr's charge one amount, medicare pays something else, hmos something else...and the patient generally sees nothing of this. I would bet that less than 1% of insured people in this country know what the dr actually receives in payment for services rendered. In fact, I'd be comfortable making that number .1%. Whats to complain about if you don't know. To fix what we have here will require blowing up everything and starting over..and I dont find that likely at all, unfortunately. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #288,839 by mmoffitt 7/13/07 8:07:35 AM Reply	It won't take "blowing up everything". It might take violent revolution. But, there are less bloody solutions. They require that money != speech, elimination of lobbying, and an elimination of private insurance. It's not just healthcare that private insurance screws up. Everything from healthcare to home ownership to driving an auto to flying a plane is unnecessarily burdened with greedy mf'ing corporate insurance slime demanding (through their government - aka the fed and state govt's) that we line their pockets. Seriously, dude. In healthcare, private admin costs ranged from 18%-20% or more while the fed did the exact same function for 10%. 8-10% savings right off the bat for just letting the fed process claims is a HUGE amount of money. Not to mention the lack of profit incentive if it's all done through public works. With apologies, "The first thing we do, let's kill all the insurance companies." bcnu, Mikem Microsoft Vista. The best reason ever to buy a Mac.

Price of gas up 50 cents today... - (jb4) - (54) - July 10, 2007, 10:35:10 PM EDT

After some thought, I think it ought to be $5.50/gallon. - (mmoffitt) - (53) - July 11, 2007, 07:41:48 AM EDT

you mean like they did with the cigarette tax settlements? - (boxley) - July 11, 2007, 08:17:23 AM EDT

Add treatment of lung related diseases too. - (a6l6e6x) - (46) - July 11, 2007, 09:00:32 AM EDT

Environmental Impact Statements. Great idea! - (mmoffitt) - July 11, 2007, 09:44:10 AM EDT

See above...big tobacco paid for that already :-/ -NT - (bepatient) - (44) - July 11, 2007, 12:08:17 PM EDT

His point stands. - (mmoffitt) - (43) - July 11, 2007, 02:34:57 PM EDT

I understand all that... - (bepatient) - (42) - July 11, 2007, 03:47:15 PM EDT

Well, fixing the systemic problems in your country's - (jake123) - (41) - July 11, 2007, 04:03:33 PM EDT

How so exactly? - (bepatient) - (40) - July 11, 2007, 04:09:15 PM EDT

That when they get an excuse to collect some kind of - (jake123) - (11) - July 12, 2007, 09:19:56 AM EDT

OK..misunderstanding of terms - (bepatient) - (10) - July 12, 2007, 09:26:17 AM EDT

Well, in my mind I'm nailing both - (jake123) - (9) - July 12, 2007, 09:56:28 AM EDT

Partial answer. - (mmoffitt) - (8) - July 12, 2007, 01:14:18 PM EDT

not the right one either. - (bepatient) - (7) - July 12, 2007, 01:24:36 PM EDT

That last statement's problematic - (jake123) - (2) - July 12, 2007, 03:08:36 PM EDT

As you are so fond of noticing - (bepatient) - (1) - July 12, 2007, 04:27:18 PM EDT

It won't take "blowing up everything". - (mmoffitt) - July 13, 2007, 08:07:35 AM EDT

by and large B.S. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - July 12, 2007, 04:19:41 PM EDT

well I would hardly class those - (bepatient) - July 12, 2007, 04:22:08 PM EDT

You have a nice dentist. - (hnick) - (1) - July 12, 2007, 04:35:14 PM EDT

She's in plan - (bepatient) - July 12, 2007, 04:39:02 PM EDT

Not that I understand *exactly*, in detail, WTF you're on... - (CRConrad) - (27) - July 12, 2007, 07:40:54 PM EDT

We could certainly - (bepatient) - (26) - July 12, 2007, 08:21:27 PM EDT

WTF do fossil fuels and China have to do with anything??? - (CRConrad) - (25) - July 12, 2007, 08:52:08 PM EDT

Why don't you actually read the thread? Or do you enjoy - (bepatient) - (24) - July 12, 2007, 09:04:36 PM EDT

'Left' then responds to 'Right'-eousness-cha-cha-cha - (Ashton) - (23) - July 13, 2007, 05:05:19 PM EDT

Until the rules change to the ones you like - (bepatient) - (22) - July 13, 2007, 10:40:08 PM EDT

That reeks of "Love it or Leave it." - (mmoffitt) - (21) - July 17, 2007, 12:49:48 PM EDT

Not even close - (bepatient) - (10) - July 16, 2007, 11:36:53 AM EDT

Condemning something != Not seeing it. HTH. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (9) - July 16, 2007, 01:03:24 PM EDT

Willful ignorance != Condemnation. HTH -NT - (bepatient) - (8) - July 16, 2007, 01:30:38 PM EDT

Careful with that word "willful". - (mmoffitt) - (7) - July 17, 2007, 12:53:23 PM EDT

You simply don't get it, do you? - (bepatient) - (6) - July 17, 2007, 01:14:11 PM EDT

thats not ignorance - (boxley) - (1) - July 17, 2007, 01:38:19 PM EDT

Possible - (bepatient) - July 17, 2007, 01:54:47 PM EDT

Well, as long as you're not trying to ... - (mmoffitt) - (3) - July 17, 2007, 02:44:11 PM EDT

Making it "better" tm - (bepatient) - (2) - July 17, 2007, 03:12:18 PM EDT

My point is your position == Complicity. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - July 17, 2007, 03:24:31 PM EDT

Keep jumping...maybe one day your conclusion will be right. - (bepatient) - July 17, 2007, 03:42:43 PM EDT

Not to wreck your ideas of wreaking, but usually it's havoc. - (CRConrad) - (9) - July 17, 2007, 02:58:10 AM EDT

Post of the Day! -NT - (Another Scott) - July 17, 2007, 06:36:40 AM EDT

Damn. I know better than that. Thanks. It did H. -NT - (mmoffitt) - July 17, 2007, 08:21:50 AM EDT

Yep - (bepatient) - (6) - July 17, 2007, 08:51:38 AM EDT

Re: the brimstone, but OT. - (a6l6e6x) - (5) - July 17, 2007, 03:41:47 PM EDT

:-) Fine thanks - (bepatient) - (4) - July 17, 2007, 03:43:33 PM EDT

Yikes. - (mmoffitt) - (3) - July 20, 2007, 02:33:30 PM EDT

All minor - (bepatient) - (2) - July 20, 2007, 02:58:31 PM EDT

Re: part of the fun :-) ??? - (a6l6e6x) - (1) - July 20, 2007, 03:54:58 PM EDT

Just a few blisters - (bepatient) - July 20, 2007, 04:07:04 PM EDT

Dude. Read "The Long Emergency". - (inthane-chan) - (4) - July 11, 2007, 03:10:31 PM EDT

They've got Cliff notes for Idiots Guides?? - (hnick) - (3) - July 11, 2007, 03:19:40 PM EDT

Point being... - (inthane-chan) - (2) - July 11, 2007, 03:29:50 PM EDT

Sure, though I take a yes/no view of it. - (hnick) - (1) - July 11, 2007, 04:13:36 PM EDT

Violent revolution. - (mmoffitt) - July 12, 2007, 07:53:44 AM EDT

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