Dude. Read "The Long Emergency".

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Post #288,714 by inthane-chan 7/11/07 3:10:31 PM Reply	Dude. Read "The Long Emergency". Cliff notes version: We're fucked. Longer version: When the oil runs out, we're fucked. Odoru aho ni miru aho! Onaji aho nara odoranya son son!
Post #288,715 by hnick 7/11/07 3:19:40 PM Reply	They've got Cliff notes for Idiots Guides?? I'm assuming that it's an Idiots Guide to the future you're discussing since your summation is pretty much "DUH!".
Post #288,716 by inthane-chan 7/11/07 3:29:50 PM Reply	Point being... ...alternative energy sources are not going to save our collective asses. We're looking down the barrel of a howitzer, and the guy on the other end has a itchy trigger finger. Our agricultural "miracle" is dependent on cheap oil, our economy is based on cheap oil, the global market is based on cheap oil - and when that runs out, there's pretty much nothing we can do about it. Even the biomass processors depend on oil-based agriculture to provide enough waste input to recover some of the energy that is used in producing the main product. It's one hell of a depressing book. Odoru aho ni miru aho! Onaji aho nara odoranya son son!
Post #288,720 by hnick 7/11/07 4:13:36 PM Reply	Sure, though I take a yes/no view of it. The alternative energy sources now being touted are based on previous economy. They drag along all the existing problems while only putting off the imminent crisis. If our society is to survive, it will have to change. There is where the fun part hangs out. Will it take a violent revolution or can we change to a more reasonable system that will let us carry on for a while longer? Damnifiknow. As a society, we are becoming a LOT more dumbed down, and we may be losing the capacity to react in society's best interest. In which case, as you say, we're fucked. On the other paw, if we still have some real leadership and working brains still allowed to function, we might pull it off. We can always die. Individually or as a society. I haven't lost yet, betting that I'm going to survive until tomorrow... YMMV
Post #288,749 by mmoffitt 7/12/07 7:53:44 AM Reply	Violent revolution. The 21st century is the century of the vindication of Marxist doctrine, dontchaknow. ;0) bcnu, Mikem Microsoft Vista. The best reason ever to buy a Mac.

Price of gas up 50 cents today... - (jb4) - (54) - July 10, 2007, 10:35:10 PM EDT

After some thought, I think it ought to be $5.50/gallon. - (mmoffitt) - (53) - July 11, 2007, 07:41:48 AM EDT

you mean like they did with the cigarette tax settlements? - (boxley) - July 11, 2007, 08:17:23 AM EDT

Add treatment of lung related diseases too. - (a6l6e6x) - (46) - July 11, 2007, 09:00:32 AM EDT

Environmental Impact Statements. Great idea! - (mmoffitt) - July 11, 2007, 09:44:10 AM EDT

See above...big tobacco paid for that already :-/ -NT - (bepatient) - (44) - July 11, 2007, 12:08:17 PM EDT

His point stands. - (mmoffitt) - (43) - July 11, 2007, 02:34:57 PM EDT

I understand all that... - (bepatient) - (42) - July 11, 2007, 03:47:15 PM EDT

Well, fixing the systemic problems in your country's - (jake123) - (41) - July 11, 2007, 04:03:33 PM EDT

How so exactly? - (bepatient) - (40) - July 11, 2007, 04:09:15 PM EDT

That when they get an excuse to collect some kind of - (jake123) - (11) - July 12, 2007, 09:19:56 AM EDT

OK..misunderstanding of terms - (bepatient) - (10) - July 12, 2007, 09:26:17 AM EDT

Well, in my mind I'm nailing both - (jake123) - (9) - July 12, 2007, 09:56:28 AM EDT

Partial answer. - (mmoffitt) - (8) - July 12, 2007, 01:14:18 PM EDT

not the right one either. - (bepatient) - (7) - July 12, 2007, 01:24:36 PM EDT

That last statement's problematic - (jake123) - (2) - July 12, 2007, 03:08:36 PM EDT

As you are so fond of noticing - (bepatient) - (1) - July 12, 2007, 04:27:18 PM EDT

It won't take "blowing up everything". - (mmoffitt) - July 13, 2007, 08:07:35 AM EDT

by and large B.S. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - July 12, 2007, 04:19:41 PM EDT

well I would hardly class those - (bepatient) - July 12, 2007, 04:22:08 PM EDT

You have a nice dentist. - (hnick) - (1) - July 12, 2007, 04:35:14 PM EDT

She's in plan - (bepatient) - July 12, 2007, 04:39:02 PM EDT

Not that I understand *exactly*, in detail, WTF you're on... - (CRConrad) - (27) - July 12, 2007, 07:40:54 PM EDT

We could certainly - (bepatient) - (26) - July 12, 2007, 08:21:27 PM EDT

WTF do fossil fuels and China have to do with anything??? - (CRConrad) - (25) - July 12, 2007, 08:52:08 PM EDT

Why don't you actually read the thread? Or do you enjoy - (bepatient) - (24) - July 12, 2007, 09:04:36 PM EDT

'Left' then responds to 'Right'-eousness-cha-cha-cha - (Ashton) - (23) - July 13, 2007, 05:05:19 PM EDT

Until the rules change to the ones you like - (bepatient) - (22) - July 13, 2007, 10:40:08 PM EDT

That reeks of "Love it or Leave it." - (mmoffitt) - (21) - July 17, 2007, 12:49:48 PM EDT

Not even close - (bepatient) - (10) - July 16, 2007, 11:36:53 AM EDT

Condemning something != Not seeing it. HTH. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (9) - July 16, 2007, 01:03:24 PM EDT

Willful ignorance != Condemnation. HTH -NT - (bepatient) - (8) - July 16, 2007, 01:30:38 PM EDT

Careful with that word "willful". - (mmoffitt) - (7) - July 17, 2007, 12:53:23 PM EDT

You simply don't get it, do you? - (bepatient) - (6) - July 17, 2007, 01:14:11 PM EDT

thats not ignorance - (boxley) - (1) - July 17, 2007, 01:38:19 PM EDT

Possible - (bepatient) - July 17, 2007, 01:54:47 PM EDT

Well, as long as you're not trying to ... - (mmoffitt) - (3) - July 17, 2007, 02:44:11 PM EDT

Making it "better" tm - (bepatient) - (2) - July 17, 2007, 03:12:18 PM EDT

My point is your position == Complicity. - (mmoffitt) - (1) - July 17, 2007, 03:24:31 PM EDT

Keep jumping...maybe one day your conclusion will be right. - (bepatient) - July 17, 2007, 03:42:43 PM EDT

Not to wreck your ideas of wreaking, but usually it's havoc. - (CRConrad) - (9) - July 17, 2007, 02:58:10 AM EDT

Post of the Day! -NT - (Another Scott) - July 17, 2007, 06:36:40 AM EDT

Damn. I know better than that. Thanks. It did H. -NT - (mmoffitt) - July 17, 2007, 08:21:50 AM EDT

Yep - (bepatient) - (6) - July 17, 2007, 08:51:38 AM EDT

Re: the brimstone, but OT. - (a6l6e6x) - (5) - July 17, 2007, 03:41:47 PM EDT

:-) Fine thanks - (bepatient) - (4) - July 17, 2007, 03:43:33 PM EDT

Yikes. - (mmoffitt) - (3) - July 20, 2007, 02:33:30 PM EDT

All minor - (bepatient) - (2) - July 20, 2007, 02:58:31 PM EDT

Re: part of the fun :-) ??? - (a6l6e6x) - (1) - July 20, 2007, 03:54:58 PM EDT

Just a few blisters - (bepatient) - July 20, 2007, 04:07:04 PM EDT

Dude. Read "The Long Emergency". - (inthane-chan) - (4) - July 11, 2007, 03:10:31 PM EDT

They've got Cliff notes for Idiots Guides?? - (hnick) - (3) - July 11, 2007, 03:19:40 PM EDT

Point being... - (inthane-chan) - (2) - July 11, 2007, 03:29:50 PM EDT

Sure, though I take a yes/no view of it. - (hnick) - (1) - July 11, 2007, 04:13:36 PM EDT

Violent revolution. - (mmoffitt) - July 12, 2007, 07:53:44 AM EDT

That tastes like Crab Juice!
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