Vista - for review and comment.

Post #278,157 by Andrew Grygus 3/13/07 6:12:47 PM Reply	Vista - for review and comment. New article up for review, comment and general ridicule - [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com/editor/edit043.html\|Vista - Arrogance and Stupidity]. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #278,158 by CRConrad 3/13/07 6:29:01 PM Reply	OK, here's one of my usual nits: "It's causing them a lot of trouble, done nothing to stop piracy, and it has caused tremendous ill will and bad publicity." Should probably be: "It is causing them a lot of trouble, it has done nothing to stop piracy, and it has caused tremendous ill will and bad publicity." HTH! [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #278,159 by Andrew Grygus 3/13/07 6:36:16 PM Reply	Re: OK, here's one of my usual nits: Yeah, I knew that was a bad sentence but hadn't thought it through yet. I'll get it fixed in just a bit, thanks. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #278,164 by tonytib 3/13/07 7:15:00 PM Reply	You should add a bit about CAD in Vista [link\|http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2007/01/vista_runs_cad_.html\|Vista CAD is 80% slower] Last I heard, still no resolution on where the problem is. --Tony
Post #278,167 by Andrew Grygus 3/13/07 7:37:21 PM Reply	I wasn't aware of that . . . . . but I'll see about working it in. Thanks. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #278,169 by altmann 3/13/07 7:43:49 PM Reply	Re: You should add a bit about CAD in Vista They changed how OpenGL ICD drivers work so that you could run hardware accelerated OpenGL apps without having to disable the DWM. Otherwise, Vista will turn off the DWM when you run one of these apps. Drivers of all kinds are defintely something that still need work in Vista. I believe the built in OpenGL implemetation (ie: the one no-one actually uses)now runs on top of DirectX as well. -- Chris Altmann
Post #278,224 by tonytib 3/14/07 11:18:08 AM Reply	That's the leading theory, but no proof yet it's the cause
Post #278,171 by altmann 3/13/07 7:55:37 PM Reply	Re: Vista - for review and comment. Vista is a price increase for Windows. Vista Home Basic, which most desktop computers come with, is inadequate even for most home users - forcing an upgrade. Vista's built-in Upgrade Anytime handles that, with versions costing up to $399 - have your credit card ready. Actually all versions are on the machine but must be "activated". I question your assertion that "most desktop computers come with" Vista Home Basic. Also, how is inadequate compared to the more expensive versions (not as pretty I'll give you)? Also, it's called "Anytime Upgrade", and the Anytime Upgrade price from Basic to Ultimate is $139. The more likely upgrade destination from Basic would be Home Premium for $79. -- Chris Altmann
Post #278,173 by Andrew Grygus 3/13/07 8:04:35 PM Reply	Thanks, that needs to be re-worded . . . . . and the costs corrected. One thing I hear Home Basic won't do is write CDs. Of course that probably means Microsoft's CD writing isn't in it but 3rd party writers could probably be installed. My clients have always been completely mystified by Microsoft's CD writing software anyway. I remember one who "drag and dropped" a huge number of marketing files to an erasable CD. A few days later she accidentally deleted most of those files on the hard disk and found all that had been written to the CD was shortcuts to the files on the hard disk. Fortunately her files were still in the recycle bin. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #278,175 by drewk 3/13/07 8:13:35 PM Reply	I got bit by the CD writer once, too It's a bad abstraction. It wants to treat all drives as equal: HD, network or removable. === Kip Hawley is still an idiot. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #278,177 by Andrew Grygus 3/13/07 8:18:51 PM Reply	I repeat over and over to my clients . . . . . "Always drag and drop with the RIGHT button, never the LEFT. With the right button you chose from a menu and know what's going to happen. With the left button Windows decides and it's often wrong". [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #278,174 by drewk 3/13/07 8:10:19 PM Reply	My nits/edits/suggestions Wall Street Journal, has published an article -- > Wall Street Journal, reports Style question: Why the underline for emphasis instead of bold or italic? Nothing wrong with it, I'm just not used to seeing it. materializing (1-Gig RAM is the practical Vista minimum). --> materializing. (1 Gig RAM is the practical Vista minimum.) Note the periods. And I'd either spell out gigabyte or abbreviate as GB, or even just 1G. People say "one gig" but I've never seen it spelled out that way. Microsoft co-president of the Platform Products and Services Group --> co-president of Microsoft's Platform Products and Services Group It reads like a Microsoft employee holds a position on a non-Microsoft industry group. Vista, and it's companion programs -- Drop the comma but there's plenty wrong.. -- Two periods offer precious little Windows users want beyond what's in Windows XP, but there's plenty wrong.. --> offer precious little Windows users want beyond what's in Windows XP, and plenty of things they don't want: Microsoft says the screws will be turned down even tighter due to rampant piracy of Vista already being experienced. -- Passive voice in both instances. Not sure how to re-write this. Swap the DRM and Windows Update bullets, and move the "criplle your computer" line to the end of the DRM bullet. IOW: # Windows Update is now mandatory. What's wrong with that? You have no defense against patches that break other stuff. # Microsoft's draconian DRM (Digital Rights Management) features not only interfere with your enjoyment of entertainment media you have purchased, but force you to have a much more powerful and expensive machine just to achieve XP level performance (V14). Worse, Microsoft has promised the media moguls they will cripple your computer if any DRM problems are found with your computer's hardware or drivers - this by Windows Update, of course (V14). Vista was so good a service pack --> Vista was so good that a service pack Most planned new features --> Most new features planned in favor of one, a draconian --> in favor of one: a draconian "one size fits all", that --> "one size fits all", the idea that "premium content" has no place on business computers anyway. -- I disagree. There is a huge amount of corporate training done via Flash, WMV, etc. increasing PR expenditures, working on ways to kill Windows XP to force Vista adoption, and ramp up --> increasing PR expenditures, working on ways to kill Windows XP to force Vista adoption, and ramping up It seems like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. --> It seems like jumping from the frying pan into a smaller frying pan. If you happen to be such a software developer --> If you happen to be such a software publisher === Kip Hawley is still an idiot. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #278,184 by Andrew Grygus 3/13/07 9:38:12 PM Reply	Thanks, many of your suggestions have been . . . . . incorporated or changes made suggested by them. I'll be posting the new version in just a bit. As to business use of "premium content", Flash and WMF used for training are not "premium content". What Microsoft means by "premium content" is copyrighted content from major studios and record companies flagged as such. In other words, the content Microsoft wants to be the monopoly conduit for. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #278,185 by drewk 3/13/07 9:40:56 PM Reply	But can you create non-premium content? I thought one of the problems was that anything you create yourself will be automatically DRM-ed into oblivion, and only "professional" publishing kit will be able to unlock it. === Kip Hawley is still an idiot. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #278,187 by Andrew Grygus 3/13/07 9:47:39 PM Reply	I haven't heard that . . . . . and I'd expect a hideous outcry from creative people if that is true. What I have definitely heard is that if you are working on your own content, say visuals or animation, and you pop in a "premium content" CD to listen to some music while you work, your own work will be degraded in unpredictable ways and may be completely ruined. If you're a creative person it's probably best to keep "premium content" far away from the Vista machine you create content on. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #278,178 by Another Scott 3/13/07 8:25:11 PM Reply	Another tiny nit. Vista, and it's companion programs, Office 2007 ... - its. A rule to remember - If it can be replaced by "it is" then use "it's". If it's possessive, use "its". Similarly with "who's" and "whose", etc. I don't know if you want to mention a couple of other things: 1) Vista was apparently released early to satisfy the contracts with customers who bought Software Assurance (often under duress). 2) I believe the Business and/or Enterprise versions of Vista don't include DVD burning software. (I think I posted a link about that months ago, but I can't find it.) You'd need Home Premium or Ultimate but you can't get Ultimate on SA. So you have to buy burning software from another vendor. [link\|http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/feb06/02-26WinVistaProductsPR.mspx\|MS's explanation of the various offerings]. Vista could be MS's newfangled DOS 4 or Waterloo. Cheers, Scott.
Post #278,186 by Andrew Grygus 3/13/07 9:40:59 PM Reply	Dang! I was thinking to myself . . . . . "I've got to remember to run the it's check this time" - and then forgot it yet again. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #278,217 by pwhysall 3/14/07 8:53:19 AM Reply	Re: Another tiny nit. Vista could be MS's newfangled DOS 4 or Waterloo. Don't you believe it. This time next year, it'll be everywhere. The days of MS nearly dying on a crappy release are long gone. MS might be dying - and I don't think they are, more's the pity - but Vista isn't make or break, because Office continues to make what we scientists call A Very Large Amount Of Money. (Well, almost everywhere. My computer will be cheerfully running 10.5 by then.) Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|]
Post #278,221 by andread 3/14/07 10:19:23 AM Reply	2 GB RAM our head of IT came back from an MS meeting and said he was told that all new machines should have 2 GB or more A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #278,223 by pwhysall 3/14/07 10:29:34 AM Reply	Re: 2 GB RAM Can't get excited about that. At this moment in time, I'd spec 2GB for a desktop machine be it destined to run Windows, Linux or OS X. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|]
Post #278,229 by andread 3/14/07 2:22:39 PM Reply	4 GB I'd bet this is what Vista would want to run well A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #278,231 by pwhysall 3/14/07 2:43:22 PM Reply	Nope, consensus is 2GB Go google it. More is always better, of course. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|]
Post #278,252 by andread 3/14/07 4:50:06 PM Reply	Re: Nope, consensus is 2GB that's how I got the 4 GB figure by doubling the 'consensus' A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #278,256 by drewk 3/14/07 5:12:22 PM Reply	Wait, aren't you the MS fan here? And even you are expecting the real requirements to be double the published requirements? === Kip Hawley is still an idiot. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #278,259 by admin 3/14/07 5:18:19 PM Reply	I know this is counter-culture here... ... but I don't see him as a Microsoft fan, just a pragmatic user. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #278,265 by CRConrad 3/14/07 5:46:10 PM Reply	Huh? What's "pragmatic user" about trying to spin.... ...everything in MS' favour, as s/he usually does? He's a shill, plain and simple. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #278,266 by admin 3/14/07 5:51:01 PM Reply	I don't see it that way... ... but then again, we've had this argument in the past and I don't expect you to change your opinion. :-) Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #278,274 by CRConrad 3/14/07 7:08:30 PM Reply	Yeah, but then - aren't you the one with the eye problems? Sorry... But admit it, that was impossible to resist. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #278,275 by admin 3/14/07 7:39:33 PM Reply	If that affected it... ... then I should see twice the shill you do. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #278,276 by CRConrad 3/14/07 7:50:17 PM Reply	Ah. Touché. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #278,286 by drewk 3/14/07 10:14:13 PM Reply	But one of them will be missing the head === Kip Hawley is still an idiot. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #278,348 by andread 3/15/07 11:33:37 AM Reply	the MS fan here I like MS I don't think this blinds me so if they want to have 1 GB (what the public is told) or 2 GB (what real world users are told) I know I want more apparently there is an issue that came over from XP to Vista which makes Windows have a hard time with RAM over 3 GB so maybe I don't want 4 (or I want 64 bit and 8) I have enough XP boxes here to back up my conclusion that only those with 2 GB run in an acceptable manor -- which most don't have since Vista is new, it is likely to require more if anyone was able to go back to the various boards over the years I think they would see that most of the issues that have put me in a small minority were legal issues - none of us are lawyers but we are all opinionated a few were philosophical -- is the browser an integral part of the OS or should MS opponents compete in the industry or in the courts I certainly do not believe that MS can do no wrong I use MS stuff everyday: Server 2003 Server 2000 Windows 2000 Windows XP IE6 IE7 Office 2000 Office 2003 Office 2007 Visual Studio.NET 2005 corporate uses Exchange OWA some of these products are better than others but they all manage to get most of the work done they do not crash constantly (they do not have 99.99% uptime) they are not constantly virus or spyware infected although these things happen (less and less as time goes by) A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #278,352 by drewk 3/15/07 12:22:52 PM Reply	FWIW I think you're an MS fan the same way I think Beep is a Republican Party fan. Sure, you see the same warts with MS and their products that everyone else sees. It's just that you're the one who defends them. If someone slams Philadelphia, I might take the time to defend it. If they slam Cleveland I probably won't. And whether I do or not in either case will probably have more to do with my mood than with the validity of the slam or the merits of the city. Bottom line is, there are lots of unfair or misleading statements made here all the time about all kinds of products, people, companies and issues. The only ones you (seem to) care about correcting are the ones against Microsoft. That doesn't make you a shill, or an apologist, but it does IMO make you a "fan". === Kip Hawley is still an idiot. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #278,353 by andread 3/15/07 12:37:46 PM Reply	you forgot to say not that there's anything wrong with that A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #278,393 by crazy 3/15/07 7:16:16 PM Reply	Yes there is
Post #278,431 by andread 3/16/07 10:15:59 AM Reply	and that would be..... Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #278,536 by crazy 3/16/07 9:53:42 PM Reply	Lots (new thread) Created as new thread #278535 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=278535\|Lots]
Post #278,283 by crazy 3/14/07 9:55:50 PM Reply	I just ordered a system with 16GB 8 core dual socket 2Ghz Xeon. It'll boot VMWare, and then my Linux / Windows images will run under it. Wheeeeee!
Post #278,287 by drewk 3/14/07 10:15:19 PM Reply	Boot VMWare? Doesn't it need a host OS? === Kip Hawley is still an idiot. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #278,298 by crazy 3/14/07 10:42:11 PM Reply	Yep, nope. They use a stripped down tuned Linux kernel Dell ships it pre-installed and configured for their hardware as a package deal.
Post #278,301 by drewk 3/14/07 10:46:56 PM Reply	Does the free version do that, too? === Kip Hawley is still an idiot. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #278,309 by crazy 3/14/07 11:25:29 PM Reply	Nope Free version needs needs OS. And it slower. And stripped down.
Post #278,355 by folkert 3/15/07 12:57:54 PM 3/15/07 1:02:24 PM Reply	VMware ESX. ESX runs the machine. Everything is virtualized after that. Has been a very good product since it was published. I first sampled it in 2000. edit: oops a tpyo. -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned. Edited by folkert March 15, 2007, 01:02:24 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #278,222 by pwhysall 3/14/07 10:28:44 AM Reply	Re: Vista - for review and comment. Points: 1. "Most existing software is not compatible with Vista. You will have to purchase upgrades to almost all the software you run and many programs will never be upgraded to Vista." - probably true but weak without cites. 2. "It's an exercise in frustration to try to upgrade an XP computer to Vista. Few Vista drivers are available except for new devices designed for Vista, and manufacturers don't plan any." - see point 1 3. "Vista Home Basic, shipped with lower cost consumer market computers, is rather minimal" - you need to do an elevator pitch on what this means. Overall, it's pretty good. I'd be inclined to attempt to reduce word count where possible in order to maximise impact. I think Drew picked up all the grammar and spelling issues. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes! [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall\|A better terminal emulator] [image\|http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h262/pwhysall/Misc/saveus.png\|0\|Darwinia\|\|]
Post #278,225 by drewk 3/14/07 12:04:17 PM Reply	More refs When I said that the new DRM scheme would automatically encrypt content you create yourself, I was mis-remembering. It's actually the Zune that does that. But based on that, I think it's a reasonable assumption to think that it's the future of Vista. And I still have a beef with the "out of the frying pan" line. Your point is that Jobs is as much a control freak as Gates, and if Apple had the same market share he'd enforce equally draconian measures. This seems uncomfortabley close to the argument that Linux would have as many exploits as Windows if it had the same market share. There's probably more evidence for your assertion than for the Linux security issue, but I don't think "into the fire" is quite fair. === Kip Hawley is still an idiot. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]

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