The fun continues:

Post #272,696 by admin 11/8/06 11:27:53 PM Reply	The fun continues: I'm getting ready for bed now, so I can get up at 6:00am to go get a rental vehicle to replace the van, our sole remaining running(...) vehicle, which has a service appointment at 8:00am to see about the check engine light, rough idle, and unappetizing smell coming from the hood, all of which started 5 minutes after I dropped the previous dead car off. See, when they say "bad things come in threes", I guess for me it means "three dead cars"... Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #272,698 by Another Scott 11/8/06 11:35:40 PM Reply	:-( At least it gave you some warning! Cringers Flossed. Cheers, Scott. (Fossed even.)
Post #272,708 by a6l6e6x 11/9/06 1:19:40 AM Reply	When it rains, it pours! :( Alex When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
Post #272,709 by imqwerky 11/9/06 1:38:38 AM Reply	Look on the bright side. Be glad that no one has been injured or left stranded in the rain/bad neighborhood/middle of nowhere because of said vehicle mishaps. Kinda makes you feel grateful. I sympathize with you on buying not a lemon, but the whole grove. We have had nothing but trouble since we bought a used car for Eldest Child. With the money spent, we could've gone to Carmax and had a reliable car with no worries. (It'll be worth the extra 2K I was trying to save - Ha!) Oh well, live and learn. Hope things get better for ya. Smile, Amy [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman\|Pics of the Family]
Post #272,827 by jbrabeck 11/9/06 11:52:13 PM Reply	Remind me to post my story some time Be glad that no one has been injured or left stranded in the rain/bad neighborhood/middle of nowhere because of said vehicle mishaps. Return trip from Montana to Minnesota with 5 teenage daughters, wife, all their luggage, and me, with breakdown on I94 in western NoDak. Or did I already? A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
Post #272,833 by Steve Lowe 11/10/06 2:50:04 AM Reply	well, you're alive anyway... -- Steve [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu]
Post #272,840 by imqwerky 11/10/06 8:15:51 AM Reply	YPB! Can't wait to hear that one! Smile, Amy [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman\|Pics of the Family]
Post #272,881 by n3jja 11/10/06 6:23:50 PM Reply	And to think......, Ben Tilly wasn't involved this time.
Post #272,884 by imqwerky 11/10/06 6:25:20 PM Reply	ICLRPD (new thread) Created as new thread #272883 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=272883\|ICLRPD] Smile, Amy [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman\|Pics of the Family]
Post #272,891 by folkert 11/10/06 6:35:18 PM Reply	So... what prognosis. And what are you going to do with the Taurus? -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #273,015 by admin 11/12/06 12:31:10 PM Reply	Re: So... what prognosis. None. It ran fine for the mechanic, natch. The code was "mix too lean". They said to bring it back in for a quick check during the day if it misbehaves again. And of course the check engine light went back on yesterday. Dunno what I'm doing with the Taurus yet. I've got a couple of options under consideration. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #273,017 by Andrew Grygus 11/12/06 12:39:58 PM Reply	The "Check Engine" light going on and off and on . . . . . erratically means, in my experience, an aging catalytic converter or other smog device. "Check Engine" is scary enough you might do something, while "Check Polution Devices" wouldn't be. When I got the Saturn, I naturally filled up at the Mobile station at the corner most of the time. In a few weeks the "Check Engine" light would come on. I'd run the tank empty and then fill up at a Chevron station. The light would be back off in about 5 miles. Happily, it's stopped doing that and I can fill up at the corner station as often as I want. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #273,019 by admin 11/12/06 12:45:03 PM Reply	This stays on until reset. And the engine idles very roughly at times. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #273,020 by drewk 11/12/06 12:48:20 PM Reply	That can be emissions If the O2 sensor (one that I know from personal experience) is flaky, the computer will try to overcompensate. This is usually only a problem at idle, because that's where emissions are typically worst. === Kip Hawley is still an idiot. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #273,023 by admin 11/12/06 1:03:27 PM Reply	He didn't think it was the O2 sensor I can't remember why, however. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #273,024 by Another Scott 11/12/06 1:10:21 PM Reply	Vacuum leak? I think that would cause the symptoms.
Post #273,048 by admin 11/12/06 5:18:15 PM Reply	That was one possible. He couldn't find one, again because it wasn't misbehaving while he was looking at it. Regards, -scott anderson "Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
Post #273,073 by Ashton 11/12/06 8:20:48 PM Reply	He could verify its health (and, in my car - for one of many.. a 'lazy' O-2 sensor has one other effect: lower mileage.) What I hear from those who pay waay too much attention to lots of car trivia, not just about their own: a non-revealing CE light is fairly common. It's easiest to see with a scope; a 'dwell meter' + voltmeter will read the same information, but person has to 'see' via numbers, not the pretty picture. First test: you spray a whiff of starting fluid / lighter fluid into intake. See that sensor volts go to full 'Lean it Out' mode, "soon". Reverse test == pull off a small smog hose; too much air = lean extreme. Engine displeasure would verify that the ECU (engine control unit by-whatever-name) is actually reacting to sensor appropriately, of course. (Alas, some mechanics do not really grok these feedback details to fullness ie. what the sensor signal ought to look like / that there Is such a thing as 'a lazy sensor'. No manual has a diagnostic code for this phenom.. that I've heard == it doesn't throw a code but can screw up mileage.) Clever, logical diagnosis is handicapped by the fact of secrecy? / nonrevealing of either the algorithms in engine computers or even: the actual range-settings which trigger sensors. This makes it hard to insert test voltages or waveforms and vet the ECU. Dealer manuals 'solve' this dearth of info in their testing flow chart$: "Replace ECU and run this test again". Hell for the Independent, natch - at least you can get these overpriced CPUs cheap on eBay or sorta cheaper from wreckers (who know the List price.) An example of being led astray: Knock, crank-timing sensor assembly was indicated by trouble code. He replaced @ >$200 for parts + nontrivial labor. Same CE error! Turned out a bad bridge diode in alternator was sending spikes on the 12V (large enough that even the big capacitor/battery wasn't enough to filter.) Spikes triggered that particular 'bogus-fault'via the unsmart-ECU design. Fixed alternator: all workee. I Hate! that my ride has ~ a dozen undocumented $%&*#-computer black boxes. I sympathize with the mechanics, too - those who grok enough digital, still have to make up for such missing info. Lastly.. with factory manual or other diagram: find the 'on-always'power fuse to the CPU which stores codes. Turns out that some, many? 'repairs' don't register until it IS manually reset / mem cleared. This is an easy first course for you, after you make any change, and before driving to test. Luck.. One with fingers-crossed, making regular sacrifices to the Lectronics Small Gods.

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