Post #272,507
11/7/06 7:04:31 PM
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I have gotten well and thoroughly screwed.
As some of you know, I bought a used 1997 Audi A8 2 weeks ago in Chicago, after a fair amount of research.
I visited the car the week before for a test drive and inspection. The owner had what appeared to be a full service history going back the 4 years he'd had the car. The car looked great, drove great, all the things I'd been told to look for (front steering assembly, CV boots, etc.) had been taken care of. No fluids leaking under the car, no deposits on the tailpipes to indicate it was burning oil. New tires on the car, and it had had an oil change a few weeks previous.
I rented a car one-way from Michigan to Chicago. The owner of the car drove his BMW to the drop-off place, left it on the street (not a terribly nice neighborhood), and took a bus back to his office so he could drive the A8 for me to pick up. He also topped up the air in the tires, filled the gas tank, and called me 15 minutes after the transaction to make sure I had found all of the controls fine and things were good. What a nice guy.
I had asked the owner on the phone if he had had it in to the dealer for an inspection before he put it up for sale, and the response was in the affirmative. To my chagrin I neglected to verify that during my inspection of the service history.
I drove the car to Mike's and spent the night there. No leaks in his driveway, and the car drove like a dream.
A day after I got home, I noticed a few spots in the driveway. Asked around, "oh, that's probably hoses or something, just take it in a get it looked at". I couldn't make the time until yesterday, and the drips seemed to be getting worse. Also I started noticing a few very slight hesitations when downshifting.
The dealer's take on it: new head gaskets, new oil cooler, new oil pan gasket, the serpentine belt was halfway worn through on the oil pan (the oil had made it slip), new transmission pan gasket, new water pump, and front and rear camshaft seals. According to the tech the engine was leaking oil "everywhere", and there was a patch on the rear transmission. Dealer price: $12K+ for the repairs, most of which was labor (other than the oil cooler).
When my heart started up again I called a guy I know at work for a reference on a european car service facility that could be trusted (and wouldn't charge dealer prices). Got the name, picked the car up from the dealer, and my wife followed me over to the new service place.
3 blocks from my destination the transmission failed. High revving produced very little movement. I managed to get it to the place, put it in reverse, and it freaked out... lots of jerking and clunking.
So I've been quite completely ripped off. About all I could have done differently was insisted on seeing the dealer inspection; everything else checked out right.
And tonight the van's engine started acting up as well.
I'm just going to go crawl in a hole for a while and hope I get better news from the other service place tomorrow.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #272,508
11/7/06 7:23:35 PM
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:-(
Man, that hurts. Don't let him get away with it.
Find out what's necessary to take the fellow to court. I think that's the only thing you can do, unless you can somehow stop payment - which I assume you can't.
:-(
Keep us updated. We're here for you.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #272,509
11/7/06 7:25:49 PM
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Paid cash, and car sales are as-is.
Which is what it said on the purchase agreement I signed. I don't think I have much of a legal leg to stand on.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #272,512
11/7/06 7:46:10 PM
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:-(
Still, it might be a good idea to visit a solicitor.
If that doesn't pan out, I guess you can look at it as: You'll have a new car when the repairs are done.
:-(
Hang in there.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #272,520
11/7/06 8:06:25 PM
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The only thing I might be able to make stick:
I'm going to call the place where the other repairs were made and see if the car was brought in for transmission or oil leaks, and if that isn't in the sheaf he gave me, then I might have a fraud charge.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #272,522
11/7/06 8:13:46 PM
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small claims? False Advertising/fraud
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #272,513
11/7/06 7:47:25 PM
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Wouldn't a whole new engine be cheaper?
I know it's foreign, but dayum.
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #272,519
11/7/06 8:05:23 PM
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Keep in mind, those are dealer prices.
I expect the next estimate to be a lot more reasonable, and to include more "well, you *could* get this fixed, but it's expensive, and you really don't need to have it fixed unless you're being really anal" sorts of things.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #272,514
11/7/06 7:47:53 PM
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baseball bat his ass
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #272,521
11/7/06 8:07:11 PM
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Believe me, that's tempting.
Although futile, ultimately, for the obvious reasons. Despite how attractive the thought might be.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #272,524
11/7/06 8:39:56 PM
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Remember ...
The satisfaction you would feel is the same whether he knows what it's about or not. So if someone were to do it for you, you would not want them saying, "This is for that junk car you sold."
Not a recommendation of course, I'm just sayin' ...
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #272,531
11/7/06 9:38:11 PM
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Well, damn that sucks!
Alex
When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
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Post #272,533
11/7/06 9:51:45 PM
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Geez that sucks.
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
| |
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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Post #272,545
11/7/06 11:11:27 PM
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sorry man :(
--
Steve
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu]
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Post #272,561
11/8/06 3:06:58 AM
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I don't know US Consumer Law at all...
...but I find it hard to believe that in the US of Litigation, there isn't SOME angle via which you can seek redress.
Best of luck.
(And you need to keep away from Things. You have severe bad mojo with them.)
Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?pwhysall|A better terminal emulator]
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Post #272,564
11/8/06 4:39:19 AM
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I sympathize.
I went through lemonness with my first PC. Not in the same league as a car, but not pleasant, nonetheless.
Wade.
"Don't give up!"
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Post #272,569
11/8/06 6:55:13 AM
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Does your state have a lemon law?
Washington has one, even if it is sort of minimal. Keeps you from being totally screwed on sale, even if the car is used.
Odoru aho ni miru aho!
Onaji aho nara odoranya son son!
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Post #272,570
11/8/06 7:20:53 AM
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not on private party sales
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #272,575
11/8/06 9:33:59 AM
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So sorry to hear that, Scott!
I relate to your car troubles, we had to pay $900.00+ to get John's car fixed. (that's two and a half car issues we've had in my car's lifetime, the first one died, and the second one would have had we not fixed it).
I hope that you can find a way to prove fraud (which sounds like your best angle. Maybe if they did inspect the car, they might even produce you a sheet claiming all the damages your mechanic found afterwards. Then you might actually have some clout in pursuing some redress on this.
Good luck!
Brenda
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert
****************************
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss
***********************************
"Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06
*********************************
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Post #272,587
11/8/06 11:19:01 AM
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New estimate back:
$4K to $6500 to put a new transmission in. Fully warranteed at that point, and apparently the guy doing the work used to be responsible for rebuilding transmissions at Audi.
This does not address the engine problems. However, he said that they can't even tell where the oil is coming from unless they put oil dye in the engine and have me drive it for a week. And I can't do that until the transmission is fixed. According to the shop they can't really diagnose it properly without doing this.
Basically it's a worthless car until the transmission is fixed. Not even really worth anything for parts, either.
So my choices are these:
1) Write it off to experience. I'm out $9000 and I find a new car.
2) Get the transmission fixed; now I have a $13,000-15,500 (weighted to the high end because of the mileage) car with possible engine problems. The only saving grace is that the dealership didn't go through the dye exercise, so they are likely just guessing. A gamble, nonetheless. Worst case, maybe I end up with 10-year old luxury barge with a new transmission and repaired engine for $20,000, a few thousand more than the cost if I wrote it off and got a new car, but with a warranty. If I get 5 years out of it, that's $4K/yr: less than buying a new car, more than a lease.
3) Attempt to get some sort of recompense from Bob the Audi Shafter in Chicago.
Bleak prospects at any rate.
After looking through the service history, I'm not sure Bob the Audi guy deserves the title "Shafter". In June, he had the front prop shaft seal and the lower oil pan gasket replaced. Which means that he thought he had the problems fixed, and it's just my bad luck that they weren't. Damn.
Now the amusing thing is that the dealer said it needed a new lower oil pan gasket too. So either Bob (and I) got screwed, or the dealer was using the shotgun method.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #272,590
11/8/06 11:30:50 AM
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Better the devil you know...
I'd keep looking into getting it fixed, myself. Any other used car you get may have issues as well.
Have you seen [link|http://www.audipages.com/usedA8/usedA8items.html|this] list of common things to check on a used A8? If the leaks are similar in your case, it might not be a big deal.
If you think you're going to hang onto it, if you don't have a copy of the Bentley manual for it, you might want to look into it. I bought the CD-ROM version for my VW TDI, but wouldn't recommend it. It requires an activation, and after a HD crash it wouldn't let me reinstall it without calling them (which I haven't done yet). I got the paper version on Amazon (I think).
My Jetta TDI had a slow fuel leak for about a year that the dealer didn't find. I eventually found that the "tandem pump" (a combination fuel pump/vacuum pump hung off the camshaft) was leaking. It was replaced under warranty and my mileage went from 42-44 to about 50 mpg. That leak I was able to see at idle - you might have similar luck in your case (even with an oil leak).
HTH a bit. Good luck! And keep looking into how you can get compensation from Bob.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #272,593
11/8/06 12:12:10 PM
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Thanks...
Wish I'd had that a few weeks ago. :-P
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #272,639
11/8/06 6:24:49 PM
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Cost you much less to have...
a Reman Motor and rebuilt tranny for the Taurus. Seeing as you already have new tires etc... on the Taurus.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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Post #272,690
11/8/06 11:09:20 PM
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Hindsight...
And the tires on the Taurus are actually somewhat worn in the front.
Basically I'm buying my way into a mock-certified used vehicle, one part at a time. :-P
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #272,694
11/8/06 11:15:41 PM
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India Charlie Lima Romeo Papa Delta
Basically I'm buying my way into a mock-certified used vehicle, one part at a time. :-P Yeah... it has to be there. -- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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Post #272,788
11/9/06 6:06:19 PM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #272787 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=272787|ICLRPD]
Odoru aho ni miru aho!
Onaji aho nara odoranya son son!
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Post #272,671
11/8/06 9:26:54 PM
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Re: New estimate back:
Bum-mer - and you weren't even naive - ran down alleged maintenance data < purchase. Some.. think that a live trip to an unrelated mech. is de rigeur for anything 'costly'. They are either paranoid or Very smart, I wot. (I went with the data, because shop was local and with decent rep.. but it was ~ a gamble.) In June, he had the front prop shaft seal and the lower oil pan gasket replaced. Which means that he thought he had the problems fixed, and it's just my bad luck that they weren't. Damn. Dunno how much dismantling was needed for access to that shaft + pan; it's always about exhorbitant /hr. labor rates, esp. with Dealer overheads. But have you considered calling/visiting that shop, with the latest guesstimates? Yes, I realize the crapshoot of taking-responsibility, don't know local rules re warranty on such repairs. In CA we have a Bureau for enforcing a semblance of performance on any licensed shops, individuals. And the prototypical Lemon Law.. We *KNOW* our car people. Doesn't solve the xmission dilemma - net search for a lo-mile wreck? I've heard stories of satisfaction there. But unclear if Audi has problems with that model; I've certainly heard a few ex-Audi owners with highly developed moans. (Useless info with no handy stats, of course.) Now if 'twere Japanese - I've heard *lots* of satisfied US purchasers of $400-600ish engines, or cheaper transmissions: with (~ 60K km Japan use, when exchanged by law, over there.) Their anality: our serendipity.Luck.. sometimes you can stir up a little A.
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Post #272,691
11/8/06 11:11:19 PM
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Some good news:
The timing belt was replaced at 80K miles... it's recommended to be replaced every 90K, and it's a $1500 job.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #273,016
11/12/06 12:35:35 PM
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I went ahead with the repair.
They had the trannie halfway apart on Friday afternoon; both front clutches are bad, so we're looking at the higher end of the range.
The only thing I can come up with is that the drive home from Chicago worked everything loose. The car wasn't driven very much so the seals likely dried out, and the long trip did it in. There was nothing wrong with it in Chicago (as Mike can attest).
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #272,626
11/8/06 5:16:09 PM
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Ouch. No lube either.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #272,669
11/8/06 9:20:38 PM
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That sucks
It is remotely possible that the seller was unawareof the problems. I doubt it, but still, don't be hiring Drook to give him a percussion lesson re baseball bat on skin.
-----------------------------------------
Draft Obama [link|http://www.draftobama.org/|now].
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Post #272,679
11/8/06 10:25:22 PM
11/8/06 10:27:25 PM
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Hey, I *said* I didn't recommend it
I can't help that I know things. Besides, if you want percussion you get better bat speed with small-diameter, thick-walled aluminum pipes. With wrist straps.
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
Edited by drewk
Nov. 8, 2006, 10:27:25 PM EST
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Post #272,684
11/8/06 10:50:26 PM
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Yah gots to have syncopation.
Thud, . . . wait for it . . . , thud thud. Not that you'd know about that particular rhythm.
-----------------------------------------
Draft Obama [link|http://www.draftobama.org/|now].
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Post #272,687
11/8/06 11:00:25 PM
11/8/06 11:01:00 PM
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I got music ... I got rhythm ...
DO NOT BRANCH THIS TO "TEST"!
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
Edited by drewk
Nov. 8, 2006, 11:01:00 PM EST
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Post #272,689
11/8/06 11:07:46 PM
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What no Pine tar?
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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Post #272,704
11/9/06 12:19:40 AM
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Leaves evidence^W^W It's icky on your hands
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #272,675
11/8/06 9:51:35 PM
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another thought
Do the vin numbers match the paperwork?
hanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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Post #272,692
11/8/06 11:14:36 PM
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I had that thought as well...
But if it isn't the same car, it's an exact duplicate. Exact same mileage, same missing center arm rest, etc.
I can't check the VIN until tomorrow as it's in the shop.
The VIN on the service paperwork does match that of the registration and title.
The opinion of the guy at the service place was that "this stuff happens, and you got really unlucky". We'll see about the oil leak, though.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #272,695
11/8/06 11:17:50 PM
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See! You *CAN* polish something enough.
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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Post #272,696
11/8/06 11:27:53 PM
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The fun continues:
I'm getting ready for bed now, so I can get up at 6:00am to go get a rental vehicle to replace the van, our sole remaining running(...) vehicle, which has a service appointment at 8:00am to see about the check engine light, rough idle, and unappetizing smell coming from the hood, all of which started 5 minutes after I dropped the previous dead car off.
See, when they say "bad things come in threes", I guess for me it means "three dead cars"...
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #272,698
11/8/06 11:35:40 PM
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:-(
At least it gave you some warning!
Cringers Flossed.
Cheers,
Scott.
(Fossed even.)
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Post #272,708
11/9/06 1:19:40 AM
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When it rains, it pours! :(
Alex
When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
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Post #272,709
11/9/06 1:38:38 AM
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Look on the bright side.
Be glad that no one has been injured or left stranded in the rain/bad neighborhood/middle of nowhere because of said vehicle mishaps.
Kinda makes you feel grateful.
I sympathize with you on buying not a lemon, but the whole grove. We have had nothing but trouble since we bought a used car for Eldest Child. With the money spent, we could've gone to Carmax and had a reliable car with no worries. (It'll be worth the extra 2K I was trying to save - Ha!)
Oh well, live and learn.
Hope things get better for ya.
Smile,
Amy
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman|Pics of the Family]
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Post #272,827
11/9/06 11:52:13 PM
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Remind me to post my story some time
Be glad that no one has been injured or left stranded in the rain/bad neighborhood/middle of nowhere because of said vehicle mishaps. Return trip from Montana to Minnesota with 5 teenage daughters, wife, all their luggage, and me, with breakdown on I94 in western NoDak. Or did I already? A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
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Post #272,833
11/10/06 2:50:04 AM
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well, you're alive anyway...
--
Steve
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu]
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Post #272,840
11/10/06 8:15:51 AM
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YPB! Can't wait to hear that one!
Smile,
Amy
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman|Pics of the Family]
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Post #272,881
11/10/06 6:23:50 PM
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And to think......, Ben Tilly wasn't involved this time.
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Post #272,884
11/10/06 6:25:20 PM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #272883 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=272883|ICLRPD]
Smile,
Amy
[link|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman|Pics of the Family]
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Post #272,891
11/10/06 6:35:18 PM
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So... what prognosis.
And what are you going to do with the Taurus?
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyFreedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0;
0 rows returned.
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Post #273,015
11/12/06 12:31:10 PM
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Re: So... what prognosis.
None. It ran fine for the mechanic, natch. The code was "mix too lean". They said to bring it back in for a quick check during the day if it misbehaves again.
And of course the check engine light went back on yesterday.
Dunno what I'm doing with the Taurus yet. I've got a couple of options under consideration.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #273,017
11/12/06 12:39:58 PM
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The "Check Engine" light going on and off and on . . .
. . erratically means, in my experience, an aging catalytic converter or other smog device. "Check Engine" is scary enough you might do something, while "Check Polution Devices" wouldn't be.
When I got the Saturn, I naturally filled up at the Mobile station at the corner most of the time. In a few weeks the "Check Engine" light would come on. I'd run the tank empty and then fill up at a Chevron station. The light would be back off in about 5 miles. Happily, it's stopped doing that and I can fill up at the corner station as often as I want.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #273,019
11/12/06 12:45:03 PM
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This stays on until reset.
And the engine idles very roughly at times.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #273,020
11/12/06 12:48:20 PM
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That can be emissions
If the O2 sensor (one that I know from personal experience) is flaky, the computer will try to overcompensate. This is usually only a problem at idle, because that's where emissions are typically worst.
===
Kip Hawley is still an idiot.
===
Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
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Post #273,023
11/12/06 1:03:27 PM
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He didn't think it was the O2 sensor
I can't remember why, however.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #273,024
11/12/06 1:10:21 PM
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Vacuum leak? I think that would cause the symptoms.
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Post #273,048
11/12/06 5:18:15 PM
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That was one possible.
He couldn't find one, again because it wasn't misbehaving while he was looking at it.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #273,073
11/12/06 8:20:48 PM
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He could verify its health
(and, in my car - for one of many.. a 'lazy' O-2 sensor has one other effect: lower mileage.)
What I hear from those who pay waay too much attention to lots of car trivia, not just about their own: a non-revealing CE light is fairly common.
It's easiest to see with a scope; a 'dwell meter' + voltmeter will read the same information, but person has to 'see' via numbers, not the pretty picture. First test: you spray a whiff of starting fluid / lighter fluid into intake. See that sensor volts go to full 'Lean it Out' mode, "soon". Reverse test == pull off a small smog hose; too much air = lean extreme. Engine displeasure would verify that the ECU (engine control unit by-whatever-name) is actually reacting to sensor appropriately, of course.
(Alas, some mechanics do not really grok these feedback details to fullness ie. what the sensor signal ought to look like / that there Is such a thing as 'a lazy sensor'. No manual has a diagnostic code for this phenom.. that I've heard == it doesn't throw a code but can screw up mileage.)
Clever, logical diagnosis is handicapped by the fact of secrecy? / nonrevealing of either the algorithms in engine computers or even: the actual range-settings which trigger sensors. This makes it hard to insert test voltages or waveforms and vet the ECU.
Dealer manuals 'solve' this dearth of info in their testing flow chart$: "Replace ECU and run this test again". Hell for the Independent, natch - at least you can get these overpriced CPUs cheap on eBay or sorta cheaper from wreckers (who know the List price.)
An example of being led astray:
Knock, crank-timing sensor assembly was indicated by trouble code.
He replaced @ >$200 for parts + nontrivial labor.
Same CE error!
Turned out a bad bridge diode in alternator was sending spikes on the 12V (large enough that even the big capacitor/battery wasn't enough to filter.) Spikes triggered that particular 'bogus-fault'via the unsmart-ECU design.
Fixed alternator: all workee.
I Hate! that my ride has ~ a dozen undocumented $%&*#-computer black boxes. I sympathize with the mechanics, too - those who grok enough digital, still have to make up for such missing info.
Lastly.. with factory manual or other diagram: find the 'on-always'power fuse to the CPU which stores codes. Turns out that some, many? 'repairs' don't register until it IS manually reset / mem cleared. This is an easy first course for you, after you make any change, and before driving to test.
Luck..
One with fingers-crossed, making regular sacrifices to the Lectronics Small Gods.
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Post #272,743
11/9/06 10:45:12 AM
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MAN! That sux0rz!
I hate broken shit!!!
jb4
"When the final history is written in Iraq, [link|http://images.ucomics.com/comics/tmate/2006/tmate060926.gif|it'll look just like a comma.]"
— George W. Bush, 24 Sep 06
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Post #274,463
11/30/06 2:18:49 PM
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And the dye results are back.
One head gasket leaking, the other one seeping. $2200 to fix. A far cry from the initial $12.5K, but still. Blech.
Now it's a $17,200 car.
I got the guy to throw in a free winter checkup for me, at least. :-P
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #274,464
11/30/06 2:22:19 PM
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Well
At least its fixed (or in process)...and ideally this will put you in the drivers seat of a very nice car for some time to come.
Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry.Adrian Belew
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Post #274,466
11/30/06 2:24:25 PM
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Re: Well
That's the only saving grace... even at $17K it's still not a horrible deal for this car. Certifieds still go for a good deal more. Had I known going into it, of course...
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #274,465
11/30/06 2:22:27 PM
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Free is good.
:-)
With the way labor rates are these days, it doesn't sound too high. But it's a bummer.
Fingers crossed that they don't find anything else wrong with it for a while!
Enjoy your new car!!!
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #274,467
11/30/06 2:24:56 PM
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Ar, I plan to.
You can bet I'm driving the snot out of the poor thing now.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #274,471
11/30/06 3:06:50 PM
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If you want to scratch the fuzzy belly of paranoia
:-0
..you could, with second oil change after repair - take an oil sample and send off for analysis. It would (could) reveal signs of any bearing materials at alarming level -- possibly missed in the first diagnosis. The trace elements are often very specific re source.. babbitt in main/rod bearings - Indium flashing and such. I haven't investigated tranny fluid analysis - but I guess that could be revealing too: when an expensive one had been trashed/replaced repaired.
(First oil change, hopefully done soon after repairs - will, of course reflect the water/oil mix that occurred plus inevitable debris from the shop work done - a false positive I'd think.)
I gather from the motorheads that these oil analyses are being run on more sophisticated automated spectrometers than in past years ie. improved credibility, though doubtless.. there are still MBAs in that field too.
Enjoy
Oh and -- if you do put pedal to metal lots? -- an analysis a couple years later makes for interesting er, data! (You've heard of that?)
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Post #274,481
11/30/06 3:56:18 PM
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I'll keep that in mind.
I'm definitely paranoid about the car at this point.
Oh, and did I mention that I got my teeth cleaned right before I brought the car in? Just for added grit!
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #274,511
11/30/06 10:47:49 PM
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That explains it, then -
You "removed tartar"
Car thought you meant, "removed starter" so logic said: !=run
( One must speak d i s t i n c t l y around an Audi AI )
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Post #274,488
11/30/06 5:46:00 PM
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better than you thought, fingies xxed
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
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