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New That can be emissions
If the O2 sensor (one that I know from personal experience) is flaky, the computer will try to overcompensate. This is usually only a problem at idle, because that's where emissions are typically worst.
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Kip Hawley is still an idiot.

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Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New He didn't think it was the O2 sensor
I can't remember why, however.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Vacuum leak? I think that would cause the symptoms.
New That was one possible.
He couldn't find one, again because it wasn't misbehaving while he was looking at it.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New He could verify its health
(and, in my car - for one of many.. a 'lazy' O-2 sensor has one other effect: lower mileage.)

What I hear from those who pay waay too much attention to lots of car trivia, not just about their own: a non-revealing CE light is fairly common.

It's easiest to see with a scope; a 'dwell meter' + voltmeter will read the same information, but person has to 'see' via numbers, not the pretty picture. First test: you spray a whiff of starting fluid / lighter fluid into intake. See that sensor volts go to full 'Lean it Out' mode, "soon". Reverse test == pull off a small smog hose; too much air = lean extreme. Engine displeasure would verify that the ECU (engine control unit by-whatever-name) is actually reacting to sensor appropriately, of course.

(Alas, some mechanics do not really grok these feedback details to fullness ie. what the sensor signal ought to look like / that there Is such a thing as 'a lazy sensor'. No manual has a diagnostic code for this phenom.. that I've heard == it doesn't throw a code but can screw up mileage.)

Clever, logical diagnosis is handicapped by the fact of secrecy? / nonrevealing of either the algorithms in engine computers or even: the actual range-settings which trigger sensors. This makes it hard to insert test voltages or waveforms and vet the ECU.

Dealer manuals 'solve' this dearth of info in their testing flow chart$: "Replace ECU and run this test again". Hell for the Independent, natch - at least you can get these overpriced CPUs cheap on eBay or sorta cheaper from wreckers (who know the List price.)

An example of being led astray:
Knock, crank-timing sensor assembly was indicated by trouble code.
He replaced @ >$200 for parts + nontrivial labor.
Same CE error!

Turned out a bad bridge diode in alternator was sending spikes on the 12V (large enough that even the big capacitor/battery wasn't enough to filter.) Spikes triggered that particular 'bogus-fault'via the unsmart-ECU design.

Fixed alternator: all workee.
I Hate! that my ride has ~ a dozen undocumented $%&*#-computer black boxes. I sympathize with the mechanics, too - those who grok enough digital, still have to make up for such missing info.

Lastly.. with factory manual or other diagram: find the 'on-always'power fuse to the CPU which stores codes. Turns out that some, many? 'repairs' don't register until it IS manually reset / mem cleared. This is an easy first course for you, after you make any change, and before driving to test.


Luck..

One with fingers-crossed, making regular sacrifices to the Lectronics Small Gods.

     I have gotten well and thoroughly screwed. - (admin) - (66)
         :-( - (Another Scott) - (4)
             Paid cash, and car sales are as-is. - (admin) - (3)
                 :-( - (Another Scott) - (2)
                     The only thing I might be able to make stick: - (admin) - (1)
                         small claims? False Advertising/fraud -NT - (boxley)
         Wouldn't a whole new engine be cheaper? - (drewk) - (1)
             Keep in mind, those are dealer prices. - (admin)
         baseball bat his ass -NT - (boxley) - (2)
             Believe me, that's tempting. - (admin) - (1)
                 Remember ... - (drewk)
         Well, damn that sucks! -NT - (a6l6e6x)
         Geez that sucks. -NT - (imric)
         sorry man :( -NT - (Steve Lowe)
         I don't know US Consumer Law at all... - (pwhysall)
         I sympathize. - (static)
         Does your state have a lemon law? - (inthane-chan) - (1)
             not on private party sales -NT - (boxley)
         So sorry to hear that, Scott! - (Nightowl)
         New estimate back: - (admin) - (9)
             Better the devil you know... - (Another Scott) - (5)
                 Thanks... - (admin) - (4)
                     Cost you much less to have... - (folkert) - (3)
                         Hindsight... - (admin) - (2)
                             India Charlie Lima Romeo Papa Delta - (folkert) - (1)
                                 ICLRPD (new thread) - (inthane-chan)
             Re: New estimate back: - (Ashton)
             Some good news: - (admin)
             I went ahead with the repair. - (admin)
         Ouch. No lube either. -NT - (bepatient)
         That sucks - (Silverlock) - (5)
             Hey, I *said* I didn't recommend it - (drewk) - (4)
                 Yah gots to have syncopation. - (Silverlock) - (1)
                     I got music ... I got rhythm ... - (drewk)
                 What no Pine tar? -NT - (folkert) - (1)
                     Leaves evidence^W^W It's icky on your hands -NT - (drewk)
         another thought - (boxley) - (2)
             I had that thought as well... - (admin) - (1)
                 See! You *CAN* polish something enough. -NT - (folkert)
         The fun continues: - (admin) - (17)
             :-( - (Another Scott)
             When it rains, it pours! :( -NT - (a6l6e6x)
             Look on the bright side. - (imqwerky) - (3)
                 Remind me to post my story some time - (jbrabeck) - (2)
                     well, you're alive anyway... -NT - (Steve Lowe)
                     YPB! Can't wait to hear that one! -NT - (imqwerky)
             And to think......, Ben Tilly wasn't involved this time. -NT - (n3jja) - (1)
                 ICLRPD (new thread) - (imqwerky)
             So... what prognosis. - (folkert) - (8)
                 Re: So... what prognosis. - (admin) - (7)
                     The "Check Engine" light going on and off and on . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (6)
                         This stays on until reset. - (admin) - (5)
                             That can be emissions - (drewk) - (4)
                                 He didn't think it was the O2 sensor - (admin) - (3)
                                     Vacuum leak? I think that would cause the symptoms. -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                         That was one possible. - (admin)
                                     He could verify its health - (Ashton)
         MAN! That sux0rz! - (jb4)
         And the dye results are back. - (admin) - (8)
             Well - (bepatient) - (1)
                 Re: Well - (admin)
             Free is good. - (Another Scott) - (4)
                 Ar, I plan to. - (admin) - (3)
                     If you want to scratch the fuzzy belly of paranoia - (Ashton) - (2)
                         I'll keep that in mind. - (admin) - (1)
                             That explains it, then - - (Ashton)
             better than you thought, fingies xxed -NT - (boxley)

Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!
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