After 15 years, you haven't figured it out?

Post #259,373 by ratbastard 6/19/06 4:04:50 PM 6/20/06 8:37:08 AM Reply	After 15 years, you haven't figured it out? "XXXXXXX, "I know I'm probably the last person you ever expected to hear from on here,..." And really didn't care to ever hear from again, but I'll get back to that in a bit. "...but I had to try to locate you as it is important." Meaning:"I'm at my wit's end. I'm hoping that I can pawn some of this off on you because I'm under the delusion that you've developed some sort of paternal instinct over the years." Yeah, right. I don't think so..... Did it ever occur to you that I might not want to be found? I've taken several steps over the years to make it a bit harder to find me, for just this reason. Thank the stars that I don't have a phone listed under my name. I can only imagine the hell I'd be put through. "Its xxxxxxx and our daughter is 15 now." The child was 15 back in April. It's now June 18th, 2006. You waited 15 years and 2 months to bother me with this? Why? Because of Father's Day? The arrogance of some people.... "She is having a really tough time trying to deal with not knowing you, her father." Her "father" was little more than an unsuspecting sperm donor, as far as I can tell. While the donating part was quite a memorable 6 month experience, the court-inspired aftermath and insuing financial burdens have been nothing short of a constant, bitter reminder of a decision that I had no part in making. As far as I'm concerned, this is a situation of your own doing and I still want no part of it. "I believe if she just had a chance to even email you and know a little about you and maybe be able to ask you some questions, it would do her a lot of good." While the courts can enforce financial responsibilities upon me, they cannot (at least as far as I know) impose any parental contact upon me. As a matter of fact, I believe that if I had actually wanted any parental contact over these past 15 years, I would have had to go to court to get them. You'll please take note that you've never been summoned to appear in court for such a proceeding. You will also note that in 14 years I have never had you summoned to court to contest the amount of support monies you have been receiving and continue to receive. I would have thought those facts alone would have impressed upon you my desires in this matter. Apparently, I was wrong. "Please don't ignore this." While my first instinct is to do exactly that, I want to take this moment to thank you for the opportunity to respond. It's not every day that I get the chance to shatter someone's illusions of me so completely. I can't imagine why you would even begin to think that I would be concerned about any of this. I have never wanted to be a parent and I don't see why I should start being one now. "I'm really worried because this has her so depressed." Well then I can only conclude that her mother has failed to instill the proper level of self-worth in the child. If you had, then maybe the child would be better adjusted to handle the fact that in 15 years her "father" has never had the slightest desire of contact with her. Again, this is not my problem, but yours and hers. I suggest you both find a way to deal with it; preferably without involving me. "Please just either answer me here if you are willing to write to her or just email me at [email address deleted] if you are willing to write to her." You have your answer. After 15 years of silence from me, I would have thought the answer was obvious. Unless you're willing to discuss early release of my financial obligations, I am simply not interested in any communcation with you or the child. I hope this is clear. If not, be prepared for the phrase "restraining order", because you're both going to become familiar with it should further communication continue beyond this point. Communication terminated. With prejudice. Edited by ratbastard June 19, 2006, 05:35:35 PM EDT Edited by ratbastard June 19, 2006, 05:41:27 PM EDT Edited by ratbastard June 19, 2006, 05:44:27 PM EDT After 15 years, you haven't figured it out? "XXXXXXX, "I know I'm probably the last person you ever expected to hear from on here,..." And really didn't care to ever hear from again, but I get back to that in a bit. "...but I had to try to locate you as it is important." Meaning:"I'm at my wit's end. I'm hoping that I can pawn some of this off on you because I'm under the delusion that you've developed some sort of paternal instinct over the years." Yeah, right. I don't think so..... "Its xxxxxxx and our daughter is 15 now." The child was 15 back in April. It's now June 18th, 2006. You waited 15 years and 2 months to bother me with this? Why? Because of Father's Day? The arrogance of some people.... "She is having a really tough time trying to deal with not knowing you, her father." Her "father" was little more than an unsuspecting sperm donor, as far as I can tell. While the donating part was quite a memorable 3 month experience, the court-inspired aftermath and insuing financial burdens have been nothing short of a constant, bitter reminder of a decision that I had no part in making. As far as I'm concerned, this is situation of your own doing and I still want no part of it. "I believe if she just had a chance to even email you and know a little about you and maybe be able to ask you some questions, it would do her a lot of good." While the courts can enforce financial responsibilities upon me, they cannot (at least as far as I know) impose any parental contact upon me. As a matter of fact, I believe that if I had actually wanted any parental contact over these past 15 years, I would have had to go to court to get them. You'll please take note that you've never been summoned to appear in court for such a proceeding. You will also note that in 14 years I have never had you summoned to court to contest the amount of support monies you have been receiving and continue to receive. I would have thought those facts alone would have impressed upon you my desires in this matter. Apparently, I was wrong. "Please don't ignore this." While my first instinct is to do exactly that, I want to take this moment to thank you for the opportunity to respond. It's not every day that I get the chance to shatter someone's illusions of me so completely. I can't imagine why you would even begin to think that I would be concerned about any of this. I have never wanted to be a parent and I don't see why I should start being one now. "I'm really worried because this has her so depressed." Well then I can only conclude that her mother has failed to instill the proper level of self-worth in the child. If you had, then maybe the child would be better adjusted to handle the fact that in 15 years her "father" has never had the slightest desire of contact with her. Again, this is not my problem, but yours and hers. I suggest you both find a way to deal with it; preferably without involving me. "Please just either answer me here if you are willing to write to her or just email me at [email address deleted] if you are willing to write to her." You have your answer. After 15 years of silence from me, I would have thought the answer was obvious. Unless you're willing to discuss early releasal of my financial obligations, I am simply not interested in any communcation with you or the child. I hope this is clear. If not, be prepared for the phrase "restraining order", because you're going to become familiar with it should further communication continue beyond this point. Communication terminated. Edited by ratbastard June 19, 2006, 09:19:43 PM EDT Edited by ratbastard June 19, 2006, 09:21:04 PM EDT Edited by ratbastard June 19, 2006, 09:47:23 PM EDT Edited by ratbastard June 19, 2006, 10:07:51 PM EDT Edited by ratbastard June 20, 2006, 08:37:08 AM EDT Expand All History \| Collapse All History
Post #259,376 by warmachine 6/19/06 4:14:51 PM Reply	You'd have my sympathies except for the nickname. Matthew Greet Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #259,380 by ratbastard 6/19/06 4:21:21 PM Reply	The nickname was chosen for a reason. That reason being that I fully expect any females on this board to go ballistic once they read the original post. I suspect I'll be called worse by tomorrow.
Post #259,384 by imqwerky 6/19/06 4:33:50 PM 6/19/06 4:57:04 PM Reply	You're not a ratbastard If you've been paying child support this whole time, that's more than most "sperm donors" will do. Let's be honest, if you aren't going to be a positive influence in someone's life, stay the hell out of it. I respect that. Now is not the time to go waltzing back like in some romantic movie. This is real life. If you don't feel it in your heart, you are better off with the status quo. If you happen to have an epiphany, well, that's another story. Whatever you decide, it's not for me to judge, Asshole (this is the Flame Forum, afterall!) edit: apparently my brethren are judging :-/ Smile, Amy [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman\|Pics of the Family] Edited by imqwerky June 19, 2006, 04:57:04 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #259,406 by ben_tilly 6/19/06 7:51:15 PM Reply	If he feels that ratbastard is a good description then I'm sure that ratbastard is a good description. We don't know all the facts. And even if it isn't a good description, if that's how he feels about the experience, that's his right. Cheers, Ben The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler
Post #259,407 by imqwerky 6/19/06 7:56:27 PM Reply	He assumed the females would judge him I merely stated that I didn't. Asshole.(Flame Forum etiquette, or is it?) Smile, Amy [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman\|Pics of the Family]
Post #259,411 by ratbastard 6/19/06 8:13:04 PM Reply	Correct. Thank you.
Post #259,424 by Nightowl 6/19/06 9:52:45 PM Reply	I'm not judging him either I would never try to convince or force someone to be a parent, especially since I have no desire to ever be one myself. No owlets, no owlets EVER! Brenda "When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ************************** "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ******************************* "Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *******************************
Post #259,436 by warmachine 6/20/06 3:11:54 AM Reply	The wisest men choose their own direction... and, hence, choose an account name that reflects something about their values and beliefs, not what others think of them. Even if they merely choose their real name, it is still them choosing that as an account name, not what others think it should be. In other words, don't damn yourself with yout own nickname, even if others will damn you. Matthew Greet Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin? - Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #259,387 by hnick 6/19/06 4:48:19 PM Reply	Certainly sounds like a learning experience... That'll teach you to wear a rubber... That said, I can sort of sympathize, but being extinct myself (mid 30's when we married and it didn't work out for kids), I probably won't... Unless you're really pissed about the money, I don't know why you posted here. The cooler would have gotten you more understanding. Or not. What the fuck do I know?
Post #259,389 by CRConrad 6/19/06 4:51:58 PM 6/19/06 4:53:23 PM Reply	What, 15 years ago YOU hadn't figured out... ...dr Condom's invention? Sure, your little diatribe was kinda cool, in one way. But in another, enforced parenthood, and NOT just monetary alimony, seems quite an appropriate consequence of such monumental stupidity -- and lack of caring. One doesn't have to be female to find your nickname only too fitting. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat] Edited by CRConrad June 19, 2006, 04:53:23 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #259,391 by ratbastard 6/19/06 5:06:42 PM Reply	Dr. Condom has been known to fail on ocassion, Fuckwit.
Post #259,397 by hnick 6/19/06 5:30:08 PM Reply	On occasion??? I think that they have a failure rate of something between 5 and 15 percent depending on where you get your data. I'd be scared silly to still be sexually active in the wild in this time and population. In any event, it sounds like you did it right in spite of equipment malfunction (or excessive function.) I don't get the ratbastard, but if you're happy with it...
Post #259,405 by ben_tilly 6/19/06 7:48:50 PM 6/19/06 7:49:30 PM Reply	Note that that's not a one-time failure rate That's typical odds of getting pregnant after one year of routine sex while using that method of birth control. The wide difference reflects differing source's interpretations of what level of ignorance qualifies as using. For instance many teenagers and young adults believe that they are properly using condoms if they make sure the condom is on when they orgasm. Some studies would include these misguided souls as using condoms, others would not. Cheers, Ben The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler Edited by ben_tilly June 19, 2006, 07:49:30 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #259,408 by ben_tilly 6/19/06 7:58:41 PM Reply	I can see that you've been through sex miseducation You might not be sure that birth control methods have failure rates, but I am. I'm going to make sure that my son learns that as well. They are better than nothing, and if my son does something I want to be sure that he is using them properly. But they are very fallible. Far too many people think, "I used birth control, I'm fine!" Then get pregnant. Also we don't know the facts. I know someone who got pregnant because she used condoms without knowing that someone had taken a needle to the package. I know someone who is a father because he believed his ex-gf when she said she was still on the pill. Mistakes happen. Luckily none of this ever happened to me. But I'm not going to be overly quick to judge someone who that did happen to. Cheers, Ben The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler
Post #259,437 by CRConrad 6/20/06 4:20:32 AM Reply	No, you disgustingly smug little fuckwit, you THINK you can. First, you might not be sure whether I know that birth control methods have failure rates, but you sure know how to sound as if you are. (Did you forget, again, that I didn't grow up in the stupid American school system and general social atmosphere?) Second, did the bastard's original post in any way indicate to you, by any whiff of a shading of the tone of any single word or sentence, that he had taken even the most fucking elementary steps towards even trying to protect himself? If it did, you must have read a different post than I did. And since that would be a rather significant detail, I don't think it's likely that he'd have left it out of his little rant, if he had -- do you?[] Third, while we may not know* all the facts for sure, are you seriously claiming one cannot quite reasonably deduce, from the sheer lack of mention of things like "the bitch claimed she was on the pill!" or "the frigging rubber must have been bad, I swear I put it on right!" that IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, there were no such mitigating circumstances? (Not that the former even would have been a mitigating circumstance, IMO -- if YOU don't want to become a Dad, YOU get a rubber and put it on YOURSELF.) Fourth, congratulations on having led such a lucky -- or sheltered -- life that none of that has ever happened to you... But what the fuck gives you the right to assume it hasn't happened -- or "almost happened" -- to me? It would behoove you to get the FUCK down off that high horse of condescension when you're talking to people who know more about something than you do. (And since you never can know beforehand who that might be, perhaps you'd better be a lot more careful about getting onto your nag in the first place.) Fifth, while you claim not to be going to be overly quick to judge someone who was too stupid to make sure he was protected, you could ALSO, once and for fucking all, cease jumping so eagerly to judge MY degree of knowledge of things. You seem to think that I am quite stupid and/or ignorant (i.e, a lot more stupid and/or ignorant than you). Newsflash, arsehole: Persisting in that misguided judgement, in spite of the spankings I've been forced to administer to you every now and then when it gets too egregious to let slide, probably means it is YOU who are stupid. If you weren't, wouldn't you have learnt to STOP making that (not only arrogant, but, even worse, erroneous) assumption, already? [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat] [*] Come on, Rat Bastard, tell us: Did you take any fucking (Heh!) precautions yourself, or were you just fucking away without a thought about the possible consequences?
Post #259,439 by ben_tilly 6/20/06 4:49:40 AM Reply	Let me run some statistics Suppose that you have a highschool with about 200 people per grade. That's 100 potential couples. Let's say that 20% of them are having somewhat regular sex, and they're using condoms. Let's use the 5% failure rate figure. That's an average of one pregnancy, per year, per grade. Those figures are pretty close to what happened in the highschool that I went to in Canada. At least the number of kids and pregnancies are about right, I'm guessing at the rest. Based on that, I figure that in a nice middle-class highschool, most pregnancies are quite likely to be due to equipment failure, and not failure to try equipping. Which means that you are wrong to assume that these people don't know what condoms are. In bad areas of town, of course, the story is very different. Given the makeup of this board and the fact that the mystery father actually made child support payments, it is likely that he came from a reasonable background. Therefore I'd give him some benefit of the doubt as to how the pregnancy happened. As for mentions of mitigating circumstances, I'd pay attention to, Her "father" was little more than an unsuspecting sperm donor, as far as I can tell. That strongly suggests to me that he felt in some way tricked by her into donating sperm when he didn't realize that he was doing so. Because unless the guy is an idiot, he should suspect that something is going to happen if there is no birth control present. And I happen to personally know multiple dads who were tricked into donating while they thought they were protected. Plausible enough that I'd again say you should give the benefit of the doubt. Regards, Ben The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler
Post #259,440 by CRConrad 6/20/06 6:59:28 AM 6/20/06 7:02:24 AM Reply	Not to use the Mark Twain (or Disraeli) line, these stats... ...are, while probably pretty far from being lies in any sense, just plain irrelevant. Benny boy goes twittering along: Suppose that you have a highschool with about 200 people per grade. That's 100 potential couples. Let's say that 20% of them are having somewhat regular sex, and they're using condoms. Let's use the 5% failure rate figure. That's an average of one pregnancy, per year, per grade. Those figures are pretty close to what happened in the highschool that I went to in Canada. At least the number of kids and pregnancies are about right, I'm guessing at the rest. Based on that, I figure that in a nice middle-class highschool, most pregnancies are quite likely to be due to equipment failure, and not failure to try equipping. Which means that you are wrong to assume that these people don't know what condoms are. That would probably mean something, if it had the least thing to do with what we were talking about. But since when were North American high school kids in general the subject of this thread? We're talking about one single guy, "Rat Bastard", of whom A) we don't know that he was in high school at the time, and B) we do have every reason to believe that, while he may well have known what the heck a condom is, he just plain wasn't using one. In bad areas of town, of course, the story is very different. Given the makeup of this board and the fact that the mystery father actually made child support payments, it is likely that he came from a reasonable background. Therefore I'd give him some benefit of the doubt as to how the pregnancy happened. Well, silly you for that -- he doesn't deserve any such benefit. What part of, "YOU don't want to become a Dad, YOU get a rubber and put it on YOURSELF"[] did you have trouble understanding? As for mentions of mitigating circumstances, I'd pay attention to, Her "father" was little more than an unsuspecting sperm donor, as far as I can tell.* That strongly suggests to me that he felt in some way tricked by her into donating sperm when he didn't realize that he was doing so. Because unless the guy is an idiot, he should suspect that something is going to happen if there is no birth control present. Personally, I'd A) suspect that he's quite possibly exaggerated the degree of trickery, up to and including having modified his own memory of events, and above all, B) focus on the "as far as I can tell" bit. What the fuck is THAT about? Was he too drunk to know what he was doing, or what? Well, tough titties: That'll teach him not to fuck around blind drunk. And I happen to personally know multiple dads who were tricked into donating while they thought they were protected. Plausible enough that I'd again say you should give the benefit of the doubt. Then those idiots you personally know probably didn't even actually think they were protected, did they -- they thought the woman they were with was, right?[+] And no, I honestly can't see how such utter fucking stupidity "deserves" anything, be it the benefit of any doubt nor, heaven forfend, any sympathy at all. You make a baby, you get to BE A MAN and be a father to that baby -- and that means more than JUST paying money. You don't want that, then YOU make sure you DON'T become a father -- and that means more than JUST taking someone's word that she's on the pill. Funny, how it's usually you Yanks[$] who are so macho about being able to look out for yourselves, and scoffing at us wimpy denizens of European welfare states -- but how foreign the concept of personal responsibility suddenly seems to be, when it comes to the most personal thing one could ever be responsible for. WTF is up with that? [Edit: Added missing pronoun.] [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat] []: Quoting myself from memory there, so possibly not 100% exact. [+]: Because using a condom provided by a woman who's pricked it with a needle must be a lot rarer than buying -- or, in the heat of the moment, deciding* to "buy"? -- the li[n]e "I'm on the Pill", I figure. [$]: And no, I haven't forgotten that you're actually about half Canuck (especially not with the none-too-subtle reminder in the very post I'm quoting) -- it's just that "Yank" usually, for all practical purposes, can be used to include those formally-independent provinces to their immediate north. Edited by CRConrad June 20, 2006, 07:02:24 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #259,482 by ben_tilly 6/20/06 3:34:53 PM Reply	Since you seem to be slow on comprehension You continue to think that we have every reason to believe that he wasn't using a condom. In fact we don't. I personally know enough people who got pregnant while using condoms that I know that from direct experience. General statistics show that you don't know that he wasn't using a condom. Perhaps you should ask him? Before flaming him? As for being tricked, it is easy to blame someone for not doing more and for believing a woman. But how many men here can honestly say that they've never been in a position where they had sex and depended on the woman for birth control? When they weren't married to that woman? I, for one, sure can't put my hand up. I find it hard to come down like a ton of bricks on someone who probably just took a risk like ones that I know I took. And was unlucky and got burned while I didn't. And I don't like watching others come down like a ton of bricks on them as well. Cheers, Ben The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler
Post #259,488 by CRConrad 6/20/06 6:05:10 PM Reply	There you go again... No, I'm not. YOU, OTOH, definitely are Ben blithers on: You continue to think that we have every reason to believe that he wasn't using a condom. In fact we don't. Other than the fact tht he didn't say a single word about using one, in his initial diatribe, you mean? Sure, that may not be "every" reason... But it is one reason to believe he didn't, and he hasn't given any specific reason to believe he did. Am I being "slow on comprehension" again, Mr Mathematician, in thinking that one is more than zero? I personally know enough people who got pregnant while using condoms that I know that from direct experience. Yeah, you keep gibbering about that, as if it had anything to do with anything. I must admit, in this particular respect, I am slow on comprehension -- because I still can't see WHAT, exactly, this fascinating anecdotal evidence has to do with this rat bastard's behaviour towards his daughter. General statistics show that you don't know that he wasn't using a condom. Perhaps you should ask him? I've got one number for you, fuckwit: 259437. WHO, exactly, was it that was "slow on comprehension", again? Before flaming him? Uhh... Do you have any idea what you're saying, you total fucking moron? As for being tricked, it is easy to blame someone for not doing more and for believing a woman. And even easier, for not being a man afterwards, taking his responsibility for the life he created; and, easier still, for whining about having been "tricked" in stead. But how many men here can honestly say that they've never been in a position where they had sex and depended on the woman for birth control? When they weren't married to that woman? Not too many, at a guess. So fucking what? The pertinent question would be, how many men here have had sex, depended on the woman for birth control, lost that gamble, and not shirked their responsibility and whined about being "tricked"? And you know what? That's a trick question. Because the ones who did that, lost the gamble, and did shirk their responsibility and whine about being "tricked" aren't men, they're arseholes! I, for one, sure can't put my hand up. Well, bully for you, that you've had a life. And congratulations on not screwing it up, i.e, on not winning the Who Wants To Be A Daddy lottery at an inopportune moment. Even more congratulations are apparently in order, for the fact that this spared you from having to find out if you would have been a man or an arsehole in that situation. I find it hard to come down like a ton of bricks on someone who probably just took a risk like ones that I know I took. And was unlucky and got burned while I didn't. Then don't; nobody is asking you to. And I don't like watching others come down like a ton of bricks on them as well. Well, tough fucking titties, baby. Just because you aren't up to telling these arseholes the unpleasant truth about what they are (possibly because it entails facing an unpleasant truth about what you would have done yourself?), doesn't entitle you to denying the truth when someone else tells it. Also, it's not like he wasn't ASKING for it, posting his tale of woe on the fricking Intarweb -- and in this particular forum -- now is it? Cheers, Switch to something more appropriate, fuckwit. The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler BTW, I've been wondering (since I first noticed your new .sig, actually, a while before this thread started): Are you sure that should be "victims", in the plural? I thought "to fall victim to something" is a fixed expression, the form of which doesn't change however many people are falling victim to whatever it is they are falling victim to. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Yes Mr. Garrison, genetic engineering lets us correct God's horrible, horrible mistakes, like German people. - [link\|http://maxpages.com/southpark2k/Episode_105\|Mr. Hat]
Post #259,498 by ben_tilly 6/20/06 9:18:03 PM Reply	I began a complete response to this And then decided not to bother. You don't understand the difference between a reason and every reason. You refuse to see that there are reasons to give him any benefit of the doubt. As far as you're concerned, he's an evil person and obviously a complete asshole. You're unable to even consider the possibility of trying to see the world from the point of view of a person who has spent 15 years paying a substantial sum to a person he's not even allowed to meet! After a few years of this, I would expect that some resentment would set in. After 15 years I have no idea what it would be like. None of this surprises me. You've always been one of the fastest people around here to judge others, and you seem to always judge harshly. In fact it seems that you've got all of the intolerance that made the German people infamous, only it has gone into being aggressively politically correct. The result is that you're a stiff-necked, politically correct arsehole. And now I leave you to deliver another of your rambling replies that completely misses the point. Since you are pretty much guaranteed to again miss the point, I'll just pre-emptively point you at the second and third paragraphs of this post and not bother replying. End of thread (for me). Ben PS I am giving the quote as it appeared on CNN. If there is a grammar error, blame them. I don't care. The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler
Post #259,529 by jake123 6/21/06 5:52:49 AM Reply	That might be true but he shouldn't carry resentment against the person who did not make the decision: to wit, the child, the one person we can safely say has not behaved badly in this situation. As for Mom and Dad, I think we can safely assume that at points both of them have. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #259,552 by ben_tilly 6/21/06 12:57:35 PM Reply	He shouldn't, but I'm not surprised if he does The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler
Post #259,576 by jake123 6/21/06 3:21:59 PM Reply	That doesn't change the fact that he's still punishing the one person that is not at fault in any way... and that people are going to judge that action by those lights. He may have a reason, but I personally don't see how one can possibly argue that it is either necessary or sufficient. He may have very good reasons to be pissed at the Mom; projecting that onto his child is just bad. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #259,583 by ben_tilly 6/21/06 3:40:21 PM Reply	Agreed, but emotions are not logical Somewhat predictable, yes. Logical, no. Cheers, Ben The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler
Post #259,651 by bionerd 6/21/06 9:14:38 PM Reply	You sound like Mr. Spock Sometimes. When a man is alone in his room... he wears stretchy pants. It's for fun.
Post #259,654 by ben_tilly 6/21/06 9:22:33 PM 6/21/06 9:37:18 PM Reply	/me raises an eyebrow Fascinating. Cheers, Ben The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler Edited by ben_tilly June 21, 2006, 09:37:18 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #259,655 by n3jja 6/21/06 9:28:18 PM Reply	Fascinating.....
Post #259,670 by folkert 6/22/06 8:07:47 AM Reply	Dammit Jim, I'm a Doctor! Not a Greenblood! -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* Freedom is not FREE. Yeah, but 10s of Trillions of US Dollars? SELECT * FROM scog WHERE ethics > 0; 0 rows returned.
Post #259,395 by boxley 6/19/06 5:28:11 PM Reply	Mr Ratbastard, fine last paragraph, excellent note Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #259,401 by Another Scott 6/19/06 7:17:12 PM Reply	Life's like that sometimes. Thanks for posting.
Post #259,409 by ben_tilly 6/19/06 8:04:03 PM Reply	One nit While I can speculate on enough possible good reasons for your taking your position that I won't blame you for it, there is one point of communication that you really should be willing to have with your biological daughter if she does not have it already. You should be willing to let her know your family medical history. Beyond that, I'm sure you have your reasons and it sounds like a painful experience. Cheers, Ben The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler
Post #259,412 by imqwerky 6/19/06 8:15:15 PM Reply	Re: One nit You should be willing to let her know your family medical history. Fair enough. Smile, Amy [link\|http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Amy%20Rathman\|Pics of the Family]
Post #259,413 by ratbastard 6/19/06 8:26:50 PM Reply	Re: One nit There is no medical history to speak of. My mother's side of the family typically live into their late 80s and mid 90s. My father's side are long-lived as well, typically living into their 80s. Thank you for your concern, however.
Post #259,415 by ben_tilly 6/19/06 8:31:29 PM Reply	Then that should be a relief to her The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler
Post #259,410 by ben_tilly 6/19/06 8:05:21 PM 6/19/06 8:22:58 PM Reply	Let's turn this dupe into an ICLRPD It's not every day that I get the chance to shatter someone's illusions of me so completely. Cheers, Ben The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler Edited by ben_tilly June 19, 2006, 08:22:58 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #259,441 by bionerd 6/20/06 8:20:10 AM Reply	You're not getting off the hook so easy with me. First, I think it's great that you are making support payments. Raising children is expensive, and like it or not, this is YOUR daughter. You may not have wanted her. You may not have planned her. You may not have had any say in the fact that she was born instead of aborted, but this child is YOUR daughter. If not for you, she wouldnt be here. This girl is 15 years old. Her job at this age is to develop autonomy and figure out who she is. But she cant do that because half of the puzzle pieces are missing. She isnt asking you to come to her birthday parties or take pictures of her in her prom dress or walk her down the aisle when she gets married. Nobody is asking you to be a parent. All she wants is to learn a little bit more about you so she can figure out who she is. It's not really about you at all. It's about her. You're being awfully selfish. And cold. Follow your MOUSE
Post #259,448 by drewk 6/20/06 9:09:10 AM Reply	Nature vs. nurture All she wants is to learn a little bit more about you so she can figure out who she is. I don't buy this line of reasoning. But then I'm the kind of guy who only remembers he's half Irish for one day every March. I know people whose whole lives revolve around their "Irish heritage". People who have never left Ohio and couldn't tell you the last time they were more than an hour from Cleveland. I don't believe you are who your ancestors were. You are who the people who raised you helped you to be, and who you chose as an adult to make yourself. Thinking you have to know who your father was in order to know yourself is the first step toward thinking you know who someone else is based on who their parents were. I think they call that racism. Sorry if this comes off as harsh. Maybe I'd be more sympathetic to the importance of good breeding if I didn't see what an insurmountable barrier it is to those of us who don't have it. === Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link\|http://DocHope.com\|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats]. [link\|http://DocHope.com\|http://DocHope.com]
Post #259,477 by ben_tilly 6/20/06 2:38:17 PM Reply	No, Laura's got a point As someone who grew up without my father, who met siblings for the first time when I was an adult, I have to say that knowing who your family is really helps you figure out who you are. Biology is not destiny. But seeing how pieces of your biology worked out under different circumstances really is valuable. That said, while connecting with the father would be likely to help the daughter, I'm not so sure that the father owes that to a stranger he never wanted in his life. I suspect that if he could bring himself to do it, it would be good for him to find out what he's been paying for over the years. But it would only be good if he was able to connect. And that can't be forced. Cheers, Ben The great masses of people ... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. -- Adolf Hitler
Post #259,452 by Another Scott 6/20/06 10:10:59 AM Reply	On the other hand... Reread the first post. Especially this bit: As a matter of fact, I believe that if I had actually wanted any parental contact over these past 15 years, I would have had to go to court to get them. Understanding that we're only getting one side, there seems to have been contact issues on both sides. bionerd writes: All she wants is to learn a little bit more about you so she can figure out who she is. It's not really about you at all. It's about her. If that's all it's about, then a better way would have been for his daughter to contact him herself. That likely wouldn't have worked either, I'm guessing, but there might have been less baggage with that attempt. I have trouble taking the mother's comments at face value on this issue. (But I'm taking his with a grain of salt as well.) As I implied earlier, I understand his frustration, but I don't think that he's handled it very well. Like it or not, she's his. It's not the daughter's fault that she's here. Presumably he was tricked; that's unfortunate, but that's the way it goes. It's good he's paid support, but he should do more for her now. Answering some e-mails or maybe meeting her for lunch wouldn't be a big hardship for him. (He can insist on it being a one-time meeting if he wants.) In other words, sometimes you get dealt a bad hand. How you play it shows the world, and yourself, your character. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #259,491 by ratbastard 6/20/06 6:39:53 PM Reply	And now, the version I will probably send. "xxxxx, "I know I'm probably the last person you ever expected to hear from on here, but I had to try to locate you as it is important." Do me a large favor and don't try again. Goodbye.
Post #259,492 by boxley 6/20/06 6:56:50 PM Reply	/me likes, short and to the point Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #259,510 by beentheredonethat 6/21/06 12:07:39 AM Reply	Been there. done that It matters. It matters a LOT. A few minutes of uncomfortableness, a few minutes of "holy fucking shit, how the hell am I going to get through this", and then, it washed away. Because BOTH of you matter. She does, you do. It is next to impossible to explain, but when it happens, even if there is no further contact, the moment of acknowledgement is one of the most important events in her life, and possibly yours. Don't fuck it up. It isn't that tough, and you can spend the rest of your life looking back, saying, I did the best I could, it wasn't much, but at least I tried. You don't HAVE to be a rat basterd. You can look her in the eye, give her a hug, and move on.
Post #259,511 by Silverlock 6/21/06 12:27:20 AM Reply	Welcome you first time poster and fuck you. Platitudes make my skin crawl. Congrats to you, crawling in effect. (It's not Norm is it?) Lets be real. The Daddy with an attitude is a prick. Nuff said. My advice to the prick, man up and talk to the kid. Leave the sperm receptacle out of it. ----------------------------------------- Impeach Bush. Impeach Cheney. Do it now.
Post #259,525 by CRConrad 6/21/06 2:40:04 AM Reply	Fuck you too, dear friend. SilverDon writes: Lets be real. The Daddy with an attitude is a prick. Nuff said. Whew, nice to know that I'm not the only guy here who gets that much. My advice to the prick, man up and talk to the kid. Exactly. Funny thing is, though, that that's all "beentheredonethat"[] was saying, too. Platitudes make my skin crawl. [...] Leave the sperm receptacle out of it. And here, fuck you too very much, for three reasons: That "sperm receptacle" term is not only grossly misogynist, but also... ...becoming -- nay, already is -- a fricking platitude in itself. But above all, learn to read, fuckwit -- "beentheredonethat" didn't once mention the mother! The mentions of "she" in his/her/its post were obviously all referring to the daughter. []: Who doesn't write even remotely like Norm, IMO. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Ah, the Germans: Masters of Convoluted Simplification. — [link\|http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1603\|Jehovah]
Post #263,033 by orion 7/30/06 3:51:05 PM Reply	No he does not write like me because he is not me. You may very well be the smartest man on this forum. I have a lot to learn from you. I tried to get out, but they kept pulling me back in. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #263,032 by orion 7/30/06 3:48:45 PM Reply	I told you I'll be back. No it is not me. I am tired of being compared to others or accused of being others. At least I waited until marriage for sex, but then that is me. I have a happy mariage, a good wife, a good son, and I never fooled around. While I have done some foolish things, being like the original poster was never anything I did. Am I back for good after a two year absence? Maybe, because people here won't stop talking about me, or following me around the Internet. I might as well join back up and try to do better, stop multiple user accounts, and try to be responsible for my actions and behaviors so I don't end up like that original poster in this thread. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #263,045 by bepatient 7/30/06 4:23:15 PM Reply	You earned those comparisons. And nobody is following you...your paranoia nothwithstanding. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,047 by orion 7/30/06 4:25:45 PM Reply	Re: You earned those comparisons. The comparisons are unjustified and untrue. Earned or not, they are fallacies. *"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift* [link\|http://www.xormad.com:4096/district268\|I am from District 268].
Post #263,060 by bepatient 7/30/06 5:07:35 PM Reply	Unjustified and untrue? In this, you categorically deny the proof that you posted here under multiple ids, unannounced. You even posted under dual identities in your own forum...having conversations with yourself. And in at least one of those other locations you opened, you openly threw accusations at members of this board and defamed others. Continual denial of these facts will not go very far in your quest for forgiveness around here. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}<
Post #263,062 by orion 7/30/06 5:13:27 PM Reply	Re: Unjustified and untrue? So that justifies a comparsion to a man who does not want to see or support his daughter and ex-girlfriend? Appeal to common belief, Ad Hominem, and Affirming the Consequent. I deny nothing of what I did in the past or present, I am just saying it is not the same as a suposided dead-beat dad and that is what makes the compaision untrue and unjust. The two are not the same, no matter what logic you use. "It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English -- up to fifty words used in correct context -- no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese." Carl Sagan (1934 - 1996) [link\|http://district268.xormad.com\|I am from District 268].
Post #263,071 by bepatient 7/30/06 5:36:36 PM Reply	That wasn't the reference and if you actually would pay attention, you'd figure that out. Too much of today's music is fashionable crap dressed as artistry._{Adrian Belew}
Post #263,076 by ChrisR 7/30/06 6:01:40 PM Reply	I really don't want to see a response to this item... ...but if you really must know: a). The original poster is not a deadbeat: He made decisions that would be counter to my choice on the particular subject, but it is totally unfair to characterize the person as a deadbeat (in the financial sense). b). You were never compared to this person. Your name was brought out in relation to someone who was actually criticizing the OP. The comparison was to someone who uses a pseudonym to post one or two times - not a comment on the contents of the post, but rather the tactics of the post. c). As for the wiki question, I've no idea which particular wiki you are talking about (there are a gazillion of them on the intarweb)? If it's iwethey, I do vaguely recall that Admin was upset at someone for fucking with the pages. But Scott reset them at the time back to the original. Wikis are community property, and any individual's judgement is supplanted by the long term maintainers of the wiki.
Post #263,065 by ChrisR 7/30/06 5:25:52 PM Reply	Just a suggestion... ...but if'n I were you... I'd steer clear of the flame forum for a while... Just a thought...
Post #263,068 by orion 7/30/06 5:28:44 PM Reply	Re: Just a suggestion... Yikes, you are correct. Thanks for the suggestion. "It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English -- up to fifty words used in correct context -- no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese." Carl Sagan (1934 - 1996) [link\|http://district268.xormad.com\|I am from District 268].
Post #263,069 by boxley 7/30/06 5:30:58 PM Reply	motherfucker do you even read these posts? OB profanity in subject. Look at the poster's style pretty obvious who it is. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #263,146 by Silverlock 7/31/06 7:20:05 AM Reply	Why yes, shit-for-brains, yes I do. The "it's not Norm..." comment was an aside on the drive-by style of posting, not the content. ----------------------------------------- Impeach Bush. Impeach Cheney. Do it now.
Post #259,497 by Ashton 6/20/06 8:18:56 PM Reply	Holy Shit.. let me guess: you 'program' stuff. {sheesh} Bad timing.. for dropping back into the mix of the absurd, occasionally sublime - and finding this little skit of the Dear Sir You Cad variety, laid out like the dead mouse my part-time cat leaves on the doormat.. for approval. Still with us, eh? Lookin fer loopholes; seekin congrats for yer l33T skillz at cubic-closest-packing of those hydronium molecules, found in all that ice. You've condensed your 'involvement' to nicely punctilious Boolean, all along - (surely a measure of your infantile emotional development that you'd imagine 'logic' could justify the icy disdain for another human, let alone one {ugh} with your DNA to have-to make the most of.) You, Mr. Logical Intellekshul Fuckwit imagine this-all is simply about (the harrassment of) Me-Me-Me: by some Miss Wrong and her bastard spawn. But not really bastard now is it? as both parents Know Who Both Are. As does your d-a-u-g-h-t-e-r So then.. whatever you imagine is the value (or valuelessness) of a one's parentage to some hypothetical offspring: this girl may possess that emotional center you must notice you're missing - every once in a while, when someone looks at you, shakes head - and walks away. The enquiry appears to be ~about what your daughter 'imagines' about her lineage and, probably - about matters which never do enter your pretty-little logic-stunted head. She finds this gigantic Hole in her experience troubling, just. now. Her problem: she is young and human. She'll learn how it Really is, with immature 'adults'. Soon enough. You cannot even conceive of such an idea! As you 'live' in Your Head. And surely deflect emotional matters according to formula, n lambda = 2d sin theta; wtf it's just an electromagnetic phenomenon, this 'emotional' stuff - let's measure its angle of deflection.. Cocky smart Motherfucker\ufffd - izzat the avatar you designed for this little wallow? Hint: >> It's about Her-Her-Her, at this point in her young life. << D'Oh. W.T.F. does is Matter HOW she got here, you self-obsessed calculating unter-mensch? You could.. accommodate her wishes for some brief contact (if merely.. to confirm that you Are the Asshole you Claim to Be.) That's at least a kind of 'closure'. She may thence be freed of permanently-missing {some imaginary Dad} - a title, unlike 'father' - which has to be earned. Dear Diary: Met a 'father' today. Yep, he is a dickhead. Well, so much for That. Bye Daddio - go suck a pickle. ie POAD. Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life. -- Eric Hoffer
Post #259,499 by boxley 6/20/06 10:12:38 PM Reply	Welcome back! and your closure remark is good advice Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #259,540 by Nightowl 6/21/06 10:00:40 AM Reply	Ditto that! It's good to see you, Ashton! I agree it would be good for her if he could bring himself to willingly contact her, I was only trying to say before that forced contact would not be a good thing. Trying to force someone to be a parent is never a good scene. Brenda "When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." -- By Geoffrey F. Abert ************************** "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind, don't matter - and those who matter, don't mind." -- By Dr. Seuss ******************************* "Sometimes it takes a whole lot more strength to walk away than to stand there and fight." -- By the character of John Abbott: said on Young & Restless on 5/19/06 *******************************

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