Here's an idea for you.

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Post #25,923

Picture of static

1/27/02 12:27:18 AM

Here's an idea for you.

I just seem to grok controlling information better as tables than as programming code for the most part. Tables are like the rolls of punched paper in player pianos: you don't have to grok how the piano works to see the tune.

You have an advantage on me, then. I can't read piano roll notation. I tried it in a sequencer several years ago; nup, couldn't do it. So I found another sequencer that works entirely in manuscrupt.

So I suggest you might want to be more upfront about not grasping OO thinking. A hot "I can't understand it, so it sucks!" is rather less effective than a "I'm sorry, I don't get it - no, don't bother explaining, it's okay" or an "It still doesn't really make sense; have I got this bit right? ___", depending on what you're fishing for.

Wade.

"All around me are nothing but fakes
Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"

Post #25,954

1/27/02 3:49:17 PM

how != why

>> You have an advantage on me, then. I can't read piano roll notation. I tried it in a sequencer several years ago; nup, couldn't do it. So I found another sequencer that works entirely in manuscrupt. <<

I made a custom MIDI sequencer based on tablization and "piano-roll" views:

[link|http://geocities.com/tablizer/foxmusic.htm|http://geocities.co...foxmusic.htm]

>> So I suggest you might want to be more upfront about not grasping OO thinking...."...have I got this bit right?..." <<

I am not quite sure what you mean. There are two different issues here:

1. Understanding how an OOP program works.

2. Understanding *why* it is "better".

#1 is generally not the problem (aside from OO-Visitor, but it is not used much in practice anyhow.)

The more I tried studying it, #2 did not improve at all. If anything, I found more stupid justifications for OOP in the books. Something is either wrong with 95% of all OOP authors, or something is wrong with OOP. The second is the most likely. BTW, does anybody here want to defend Meyer's "panel" thingy in OOSC2?

To sell me, I would have to see some good examples of OOP business applications side-by-side with decent p/r versions, and a detailed account of why the OOP version is better using things such as change impact analysis.

________________
oop.ismad.com

PHP quibbles. - (static) - (77) - Dec. 15, 2001, 02:00:52 AM EST

And the documentation is worse - (drewk) - (74) - Dec. 17, 2001, 02:04:20 PM EST

That's a wierd one. - (static) - (73) - Dec. 18, 2001, 05:31:51 AM EST

Empty(OOP) - (tablizer) - (72) - Dec. 28, 2001, 12:43:59 AM EST

Classes in PHP. - (static) - (71) - Dec. 29, 2001, 11:18:31 PM EST

Feathering my Ruffles? - (tablizer) - (70) - Dec. 31, 2001, 01:20:58 AM EST

Do you really want to know? :-) - (static) - (69) - Dec. 31, 2001, 07:41:39 AM EST

Same thing in phpIWT - (admin) - (2) - Dec. 31, 2001, 09:40:42 AM EST

References? - (static) - (1) - Jan. 1, 2002, 07:57:54 PM EST

The issue... - (admin) - Jan. 1, 2002, 08:35:33 PM EST

why subclass? - (tablizer) - (63) - Dec. 31, 2001, 10:38:54 PM EST

If you won't get it, please say so. - (static) - (62) - Jan. 1, 2002, 07:43:27 PM EST

I *never* "got" classes. You know that. - (tablizer) - (61) - Jan. 3, 2002, 01:08:51 AM EST

Well, with that out of the way... - (static) - (58) - Jan. 3, 2002, 06:37:47 PM EST

apples to oranges - (tablizer) - (57) - Jan. 11, 2002, 12:40:44 AM EST

I'm sorry? - (static) - (56) - Jan. 11, 2002, 05:42:43 AM EST

I don't believe you - (tablizer) - (53) - Jan. 12, 2002, 04:35:39 PM EST

"and that is why you fail". - (static) - (52) - Jan. 13, 2002, 04:50:24 AM EST

Looks syntax-heavy to me - (tablizer) - (51) - Jan. 13, 2002, 09:07:53 PM EST

I really wonder why I'm doing this. - (static) - (50) - Jan. 13, 2002, 10:16:58 PM EST

no gap - (tablizer) - (49) - Jan. 15, 2002, 08:43:30 PM EST

Yes, there is a gap. - (static) - (1) - Jan. 16, 2002, 04:48:47 AM EST

not just a "mere add-on" - (tablizer) - Jan. 18, 2002, 02:13:21 AM EST

I think I see what's going on... - (Arkadiy) - (46) - Jan. 16, 2002, 02:08:06 PM EST

handles == pointers or ID's to bigger things - (tablizer) - (45) - Jan. 18, 2002, 02:21:47 AM EST

Looks like we're in agreement. -NT - (Arkadiy) - (44) - Jan. 18, 2002, 07:50:51 PM EST

So "OOP is of little or no use for custom biz apps" - (tablizer) - (43) - Jan. 18, 2002, 11:21:01 PM EST

No, that part is incorrect. - (static) - (16) - Jan. 19, 2002, 05:20:54 AM EST

re: compile-time protection - (tablizer) - (3) - Jan. 19, 2002, 02:10:22 PM EST

Go away, Bryce. - (static) - (2) - Jan. 20, 2002, 04:34:38 AM EST

Okay, but first I have to get the last word in - (tablizer) - (1) - Jan. 21, 2002, 11:25:24 PM EST

Oh my... - (folkert) - Jan. 21, 2002, 11:35:52 PM EST

The king of OOP is typeless - (Arkadiy) - (11) - Jan. 22, 2002, 07:24:45 PM EST

I agree with your premise, but.... - (tablizer) - (10) - Jan. 24, 2002, 12:49:40 PM EST

People's brains are different indeed - (Arkadiy) - (9) - Jan. 25, 2002, 06:17:30 PM EST

head survey? - (tablizer) - (8) - Jan. 26, 2002, 02:45:22 PM EST

Re: head survey? - (wharris2) - (1) - Jan. 26, 2002, 09:15:26 PM EST

Is that why she walks funny? :-) -NT - (tablizer) - Jan. 27, 2002, 12:03:16 AM EST

Here's an idea for you. - (static) - (1) - Jan. 27, 2002, 12:27:18 AM EST

how != why - (tablizer) - Jan. 27, 2002, 03:49:17 PM EST

Getting inside your head... - (Arkadiy) - (3) - Jan. 28, 2002, 06:27:13 PM EST

Maybe in a new thread though... ;-) -NT - (admin) - Jan. 28, 2002, 07:51:03 PM EST

(I moved discussion to Flame Quarantine area) -NT - (tablizer) - (1) - Jan. 28, 2002, 09:16:43 PM EST

Not necessary... - (admin) - Jan. 28, 2002, 09:33:25 PM EST

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH - (folkert) - (19) - Jan. 19, 2002, 11:11:32 AM EST

answers: no, 3, whatever, chicken! -NT - (tablizer) - (18) - Jan. 19, 2002, 02:55:43 PM EST

You missed the meaning again... Same as always... - (folkert) - (17) - Jan. 19, 2002, 10:32:02 PM EST

I prefer readable scripting languages -NT - (tablizer) - (16) - Jan. 21, 2002, 11:15:21 PM EST

Then you cannot know... - (folkert) - (15) - Jan. 21, 2002, 11:32:08 PM EST

Give me tools that fit the way I think and I can..... - (tablizer) - (14) - Jan. 24, 2002, 01:09:18 PM EST

Heh! Certainly one possibility... - (hnick) - (2) - Jan. 25, 2002, 07:55:18 AM EST

jack of all trades, master of none - (tablizer) - (1) - Jan. 25, 2002, 04:01:07 PM EST

That would be me, kinda sorta... - (hnick) - Jan. 26, 2002, 12:24:15 AM EST

There are NO tools that can make a 3-yo moron a watchmaker. - (CRConrad) - (3) - Jan. 25, 2002, 09:20:59 AM EST

My apps can kick your apps butt, neener neener -NT - (tablizer) - Jan. 25, 2002, 04:15:50 PM EST

OUCH... No recovery Possible Bryce.... -NT - (folkert) - Jan. 27, 2002, 04:33:59 PM EST

Ive cut my trees ate my lunch now where is the newspaper? -NT - (boxley) - Oct. 31, 2002, 08:10:13 PM EST

ask and you shall receive - (boxley) - (6) - Jan. 25, 2002, 09:25:44 AM EST

Seems a little weak in the relational department - (tablizer) - (5) - Jan. 25, 2002, 04:12:32 PM EST

Too bad, ya gotta stick with Xbase only. - (CRConrad) - (4) - Jan. 27, 2002, 09:48:51 AM EST

Laf, hardly. - (admin) - (2) - Jan. 27, 2002, 10:10:50 AM EST

tells u what the 2 richest men in the world think of OO ;-) -NT - (tablizer) - Jan. 27, 2002, 10:06:49 PM EST

Yeah, but Sssshhhh! - (CRConrad) - Nov. 1, 2002, 04:22:15 AM EST

what hazn't? - (tablizer) - Jan. 27, 2002, 03:57:48 PM EST

OOP is no use for relatively small apps. - (Arkadiy) - (5) - Jan. 22, 2002, 07:21:26 PM EST

on scalability - (tablizer) - (4) - Jan. 24, 2002, 01:03:36 PM EST

Thingy - (Arkadiy) - (3) - Jan. 25, 2002, 05:45:04 PM EST

All Your Nouns Are Belong To Us - (tablizer) - Jan. 26, 2002, 02:55:23 PM EST

How very interesting. - (static) - (1) - Jan. 27, 2002, 12:28:52 AM EST

And youses can *almost* articulate the benefits - (tablizer) - Jan. 27, 2002, 04:10:45 PM EST

You can't reason with many people about many things. -NT - (wharris2) - (1) - Jan. 12, 2002, 06:13:59 PM EST

the p/r api's are either fixable or not - (tablizer) - Jan. 13, 2002, 12:55:19 AM EST

Then why the HECK did you even ask, you UTTER moron?!? -NT - (CRConrad) - (1) - Jan. 4, 2002, 09:50:28 AM EST

Ah well, Bryce is programming without class - (nking) - Jan. 4, 2002, 02:02:48 PM EST

I noticed that, too - (drewk) - (1) - Jan. 2, 2002, 05:47:22 PM EST

Actually, it sort of works. - (static) - Jan. 2, 2002, 06:25:32 PM EST

Program you way around it - (nking) - (1) - Dec. 17, 2001, 09:51:22 PM EST

PHP doesn't really have that problem. - (static) - Dec. 18, 2001, 05:41:07 AM EST

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