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New I don't know much about art...
but I know [link|http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/comm/csj/991008/madonna.html|shit] when I see it.

Come on. Only a complete philistine really believes there's no objective standard of beauty.

----------------------------------------------------------------
4 out of 5 Iraqis choose democracy!
If you don't like my posts, don't click on them.
Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/]
"The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
New Define objective. Define beauty.
Somehow, I don't think such they can be reduced to sound-bites and retain any meaning.

[link|http://www.solstice.us/russell/science-ethics.html|Russell] had a few things to say about this:

Ethics, if the above analysis is correct, contains no statements, whether true or false, but consists of desires of a certain general kind, namely such as are concerned with the desires of mankind in general - and of gods, angels, and devils, if they exist. Science can discuss the causes of desires, and the means for realizing them, but it cannot contain any genuinely ethical sentences, because it is concerned with what is true or false.

The theory which I have been advocating is a form of the doctrine which is called the "subjectivity" of values. This doctrine consists in maintaining that that, if two men differ about values, there is not a disagreement as to any kind of truth, but a difference of taste. If one man says "oysters are good" and another says "I think they are bad," we recognize that there is nothing to argue about. The theory in question holds that all differences as to values are of this sort, although we do not naturally think them so when we are dealing with matters that seem to us more exalted than oysters. The chief ground for adopting this view is the complete impossibility of finding any arguments to prove that this or that has intrinsic value. If we all agreed, we might hold that we know values by intuition. We cannot prove, to a colour-blind man, that grass is green and not red. But there are various ways of proving to him that he lacks a power of discrimination which most men possess, whereas in the case of values there are no such ways, and disagreements are much more frequent than in the case of colours. Since no way can be even imagined for deciding a difference as to values, the conclusion is forced upon us that the difference is one of tastes, not one as to any objective truth.


YMMV.

Cheers,
Scott.
New You really need "objective" defined for you?
Oh, brother. If you can't handle [link|http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=objective|objective], I guess it's too much to expect you'll ever grok beauty.

But hey, I'll give you an inch:

3
a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices: an objective critic. See Synonyms at fair.
b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: an objective appraisal.


----------------------------------------------------------------
4 out of 5 Iraqis choose democracy!
If you don't like my posts, don't click on them.
Never mind the AP. Here's the real Iraq reporting: [link|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/|http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/]
"The period of debate is closed. Arms, as the last resort, decide the contest." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense
New Define "objective beauty".
And stop dodging the question.

Alternatively, you could make like an adult and admit that you said something stupid.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Objective beauty == oxymoron
like
Military Intelligence
Microsoft Security
Painless Dentist
Republican Integrity
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
New I know that and you know that.
I want to know if the eejit will admit that.

I suspect that my request for a definition of his "objective beauty" will go unanswered.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New you havnt answered why the people you date arnt objectively
appealing to hottentots.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New give me a break, look at the women(or men) you date
what is attractive to you is not attractive to a hottentot and what the hottentot finds attractive would make yer Irish gonads crawl back into your stomach.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New I like motorway intersections, integrated circuits and fonts
I think there's real beauty in all those things. Do you?

Oops.

So, what scale do we use to measure beauty? Is it an ISO standard?


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Don't know much about history...
(Which, in bot's case is truth incarnate).


And yes, this isn't the right forum for this... ;-)
jb4
"So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't."
Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
Expand Edited by jb4 May 8, 2006, 11:34:53 AM EDT
New I don't think so, pal.
Come on. Only a complete philistine really believes there's no objective standard of beauty.


No there is not. (PERIOD). There are relative standards based upon groupthink. Different cultures will have different standards because the "group" has a different mindset.

Even the same groups will have a dynamically changing version of "beauty" over time. Take, as an example, female beauty...and look at how the "standard" has changed by sampling the playboy centerfold from the magazines inception until now.

CLEARLY the standard of female beauty has changed over this time. If it was a clear objective standard there would not have been such a migration.

If there were a clear objective standard of "art"...then Picasso would never have become a leading artist and his paintings would have never fetched millions at auction.

You, sir, are not demonstrating a clear understanding on culture and its impact on morality and perception.


If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Who you callin' "sir"?!?
A bit more respect than is warranted, I wot....
jb4
"So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't."
Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
New Or anything else it seems



[link|http://www.blackbagops.net|Black Bag Operations Log]

[link|http://www.objectiveclips.com|Artificial Intelligence]

[link|http://www.badpage.info/seaside/html|Scrutinizer]
New I'm surprised at you
"Complete philistine" coming from you... I would expect you to happily use the modern term "palestinian" here.
What are you, a Hittite or something?
Have whatever values you have. That's what America is for.
You don't need George Bush for that.
New Why does a humanist care about the madonna?
Matthew Greet


Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
New why does anyone care about madonna?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Re: I don't know much about art...
Should have posted the subject line and left it at that, eh?

Do you like the sculpture of [link|http://tlfe.org.uk/imart/bretton%20park/bretton.html|Henry Moore]?

What about the [link|http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00076NYPK/qid=1148301261/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-6468984-1015131?s=music&v=glance&n=5174|music] of [link|http://www.avalancheinc.co.uk/visual2.html|Jesu]?

Does the art of [link|http://www.beatmuseum.org/duchamp/images/nude2.jpg|Marcel Duchamp] float your boat?

I find all of these things beautiful. Do you? Do you still want to pursue this line of argument?


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New I, on the other hand,
find Moore's first two works very similiar to the art work my dogs drop every morning on the our walk, though the rest are nice.

So, Marlowe, what is the "Objective beauty" of art, and how is it measured?
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
New Objective beauty of art? That's too easy!
Duh. The "Objective beauty" of art is the beauty of the thing as an object, most commonly measured in petrodollars (classically at auction, but since 9/11 the no-bid contract has assumed a pre-eminent role).

Some of the most devastatingly beautiful pieces of art of the last 4 years are the live theater productions "Abu Ghraib Celebration of Universal Human Dignity" and "Superdome Ode to the Common Man", both produced by the immensely talented We the People group, funded in part by Dubai-Mao limited.
Have whatever values you have. That's what America is for.
You don't need George Bush for that.
New And someone called *me* snarky
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Well, they were right...
...no one called you "exclusively snarky". And certainly not "objectively snarky"....

;-)
jb4
"So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't."
Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
New How about "table-driven snarky"? OOP is a lie!
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Alright! Who stole Drew's ID and is holding it for ransom?
jb4
"So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't."
Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
New Objective beauty is soviet era art with american flags
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New I believe Rand has a nice collection of that
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New So, please, tell me. Is there such "thing" as beauty?
Is there anything to it beyond "that which I find pleasing"? In other words, is there really an objective beauty, independent from the observer?

Please answer yes or no.


As to the art you're refering to, I find some of it intellectually stimulating. It's as if the authors were really capabale of producing something beautiful, but decided to show that ability in the most indirect way they could. I wonder if the things you find beautiful are the result of your effort to extract the art out of hiding. IOW, I wonder if you're the real author of the beauty, not mr Moore or what's his name.

------

179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]

New Point = missed.
You seem to be making a habit of this with my posts.

The WHOLE POINT of my post is that there's no such thing as objective beauty.

I don't really mind either way if you think Moore's stuff is beautiful or looks like dog turds.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Not really missed
I just couldn't bring myself to believe that you'd say "no".

Well, welcome to the brave new world, where dog turds are as good as Michelangelo, and rap may be even better than Bethoven. Wake me up when you folks will reach the ultimate reward of your beliefs. I'd rather sleep through the whole process, if I may.

------

179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]

New Yeah, you have.
You've got stuck on disliking the stuff I linked to. Which is fair enough, but whether you like it or not doesn't alter my point.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New I have to apologise here
As Beep reminded me, I made a huge assumption about you, an assumption that I would not make about, say, mmoffitt. I assumed that you and I are the same "type" of observer, and in our discussion only that particular type matters. I was wrong. You are indeed a different type. No discussion about beauty is possible between us. And you were right, the "objective beaty" does not exist as far as you and I are concerned. We are too different.

I have to ask you another question, though. Is there anything that some people call "beautiful" that you would call "ugly" (Pontiac Aztec not included)? In the area of art, I mean.

------

179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]

New You're still missing the point
The point was not whether I can have a discussion about beauty with anyone; I just picked three things that I know I find beautiful but which are probably examples of the kind of thing that wreck Marlowe's "There is an objective standard of beauty" argument - it takes a particular kind of brain to regard Jesu's music as beautiful.

Art that some people call beautiful but which I regard as ugly? Roy Lichtenstein. Andy Warhol. Jackson Pollock. Pop Art in general. I also regard most naive art as fairly horrible. Stuff like [link|http://images.google.com/images?svnum=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&c2coff=1&client=safari&rls=en-us&q=naive+art&btnG=Search|this].


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New those pictures are loverly
Of course I like dogs playing poker on black velvet so what do I know.
thanx,
bill
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New The Pontiac Aztek has a face...
...(and an arse) only a GM designer could love....
jb4
"So don't pay attention to the approval ratings that say 68% of Americans disapprove of the job this man is doing. I ask you this, does that not also logically mean that 68% approve of the job he's not doing? Think about it. I haven't."
Stephen Colbert, at the White House Correspondent's Dinner 29Apr06
New Grargh.
That's grim.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Independent from the observer? No.
While it is altogether likely that you and I and Peter and everyone else here would find the same painting "beautiful"..say Van Gogh's Nightwatch...this is NOT an objective standard...this is a common perception among humans with similar programming.

And since we have "common programming", I also agree with you that some of the "shit" that passes for art (including shit :-)) is indeed shit.

doesn't change the point I made nor the point Peter made, however.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New I guess I have to agree
about "human" and "common programming". The problem starts when "programming" gets so vague that anything goes. Or when the carriers of a particular kind of "programming" decide that their programming is the only one in the world that does not deserve respect.

The reason a "programming" survives is because it's advantageous for a society to have it. When the society decides to eliminate its own concept of beauty, the society is sick or suicidal.

------

179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]

New And I with you
Just because there is no "objective" standard doesn't mean there cannot be a common belief. I find the defense of some of the "art" now to be troubling in that fashion.

The vehemence to defend the most marginal simply means that people are wiling to suspend their consideration of the greater good in persuit of anarchy.

The care is in where the line is drawn...which is where most err on the side of caution...hence open displays of fesces in major museums and galleries.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New s /Van Gogh/Rembrandt perhaps?
New Yeah...my bad.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Not I
I had never ween Night Watch, so I just googled it. Granted painting/art will always look better when actually view, I found Night Watch a painting that I would easily pass on. Just not something that I'd be interested in owning or viewing.

In Minneapolis there is a sculpture of a huge spoon and cherry. I consider it interesting, but not worth the money spent.

Common perceptions/programming? Dunno. Unless you want to define it as what the majority believes is beautiful.

I think I'll stick to my statement that there is no Objective Beauty. Beauty is completely subjective. What I think is beauty, is beautiful, no matter what you may think. And, of course, the reverse is also true.
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. (Herm Albright)
New Its a huge painting
and it catches you when you stand in front of it.

But your statement is one more nail in the coffin of the notion of objective beauty.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Yabbut
Without there being an objective standard of beauty, if beauty is subjective, if it varies from individual to individual, from culture to culture, how can one rationalize controlling what art the public is allowed to see with 'freedom'? How can you tighten the noose areound the neck of 'freedom of speech'?

Objective standards of beauty and art are necessary to the next step in der Master Plan. It is necessary to that these standards appear unlinked to a particular religion, as well (you know, like 'creation science'). Therefore the declaration of 'humanism'.

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New And we will burn that which fails the test!
For the greater good!

That's where this crypto-fascistic bullshit of Marlowe's leads.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Um...
you have been reading me in this thread, right?

You can't.

The problem is that this inability is now being taken advantage of by the fringe who know that no matter what now (let me throw shit at religious artifacts...I'll call it art and they'll >have< to let me show it) they'll will be able to gain noteriety.

Its "shock art"...and the emphasis is on shock...cause I don't even think the folks making it think its art either. They're "making a statement".

And you know full well that I understand this as the "dark side" of freedom...and that its necessary to endure. I don't go, don't give it my money...vote with my feet.

Same with satellite radio. Stern went there. I will not. Again, voting with my feet.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New ROFL... Come now, Beep!
I actually agree - but 'shock art' is a form of communication as well.

My point was that this whole 'tempest' was caused by our own 'private dick''s laying a background for censoring art (probably in the name of saving the cheeeldrun).

Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
New Oh, come on now - 'Saving the Cheeeldrun' is . . .
. . so "Last Century". Surely there must be a way to link "art" and "objective beauty" to the pressing need for National Security.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New Here's how:
Art - appreciated by the loyal (I'm feeling uplifted just looking at it. Or I've got flatulence. One or t'other):

[image|http://www.skylinepictures.com/Freedo1.jpg||||]

Shit - viewers are terrorists and could do with a good arresting:

[image|http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f4/The_Scream.jpg/463px-The_Scream.jpg||The work of a left-wing mentalist||]


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New why dont you like the picture of a labrador wearing a coat?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
New Gah! I've seen "Glory to CPSU"posters that were better made.

------

179. I will not outsource core functions.
--
[link|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm|.]

     A declaration of humanism - (marlowe) - (67)
         I don't hate humanity - (ben_tilly) - (1)
             Oh, you're soooo intolerant. - (marlowe)
         What I want to hear from you is . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1)
             Your confusion of opinion with reality... - (marlowe)
         Im glad you support legalizing drugs and prostitution - (boxley)
         Fascist-humanist - (JayMehaffey) - (4)
             There's a little thing called logic. - (marlowe) - (3)
                 Then how - (JayMehaffey)
                 Rules in society aren't black and white. - (Another Scott)
                 You just heard of it? - (tuberculosis)
         Zero grasp of basic economic theory - (tuberculosis)
         Okay now I have more time to address your concerns - (boxley) - (52)
             It was nice of you to do that - (bepatient) - (51)
                 +5 Insightful - (jb4) - (1)
                     I'm gonna say it again - (jake123)
                 I don't know much about art... - (marlowe) - (48)
                     Define objective. Define beauty. - (Another Scott) - (5)
                         You really need "objective" defined for you? - (marlowe) - (4)
                             Define "objective beauty". - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                 Objective beauty == oxymoron - (jbrabeck) - (1)
                                     I know that and you know that. - (pwhysall)
                             you havnt answered why the people you date arnt objectively - (boxley)
                     give me a break, look at the women(or men) you date - (boxley)
                     I like motorway intersections, integrated circuits and fonts - (pwhysall)
                     Don't know much about history... - (jb4)
                     I don't think so, pal. - (bepatient) - (1)
                         Who you callin' "sir"?!? - (jb4)
                     Or anything else it seems -NT - (tuberculosis)
                     I'm surprised at you - (GBert)
                     Why does a humanist care about the madonna? -NT - (warmachine) - (1)
                         why does anyone care about madonna? -NT - (boxley)
                     Re: I don't know much about art... - (pwhysall) - (32)
                         I, on the other hand, - (jbrabeck) - (7)
                             Objective beauty of art? That's too easy! - (GBert) - (6)
                                 And someone called *me* snarky -NT - (drewk) - (3)
                                     Well, they were right... - (jb4) - (2)
                                         How about "table-driven snarky"? OOP is a lie! -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                                             Alright! Who stole Drew's ID and is holding it for ransom? -NT - (jb4)
                                 Objective beauty is soviet era art with american flags -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                     I believe Rand has a nice collection of that -NT - (drewk)
                         So, please, tell me. Is there such "thing" as beauty? - (Arkadiy) - (23)
                             Point = missed. - (pwhysall) - (7)
                                 Not really missed - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                     Yeah, you have. - (pwhysall)
                                 I have to apologise here - (Arkadiy) - (4)
                                     You're still missing the point - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                         those pictures are loverly - (boxley)
                                     The Pontiac Aztek has a face... - (jb4) - (1)
                                         Grargh. - (pwhysall)
                             Independent from the observer? No. - (bepatient) - (14)
                                 I guess I have to agree - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                     And I with you - (bepatient)
                                 s /Van Gogh/Rembrandt perhaps? -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                     Yeah...my bad. -NT - (bepatient)
                                 Not I - (jbrabeck) - (9)
                                     Its a huge painting - (bepatient) - (8)
                                         Yabbut - (imric) - (7)
                                             And we will burn that which fails the test! - (pwhysall)
                                             Um... - (bepatient) - (5)
                                                 ROFL... Come now, Beep! - (imric) - (4)
                                                     Oh, come on now - 'Saving the Cheeeldrun' is . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (3)
                                                         Here's how: - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                                             why dont you like the picture of a labrador wearing a coat? -NT - (boxley)
                                                             Gah! I've seen "Glory to CPSU"posters that were better made. -NT - (Arkadiy)
         Me too! Give me a break too! - (rcareaga) - (2)
             For those of you who need a dictionary - (broomberg) - (1)
                 Calumny! -NT - (pwhysall)

Ah yes, "Lambicus cetafermentum", otherwise known as the Greater Belgian Whale.
184 ms