Sorry

Post #2,504 by Fearless Freep 7/20/01 7:16:04 PM Reply	Sorry God speaking to man and dictating or writing laws would fall under the 'miracle' category. Jay O'Connor "Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
Post #2,506 by a6l6e6x 7/20/01 9:15:07 PM Reply	Amen to that! :) Alex
Post #2,520 by boxley 7/20/01 10:54:06 PM Reply	kinda sorta this is what I was looking for what I was looking for was The beatitudes. The widow and her mite The landowner who invited the homeless to the party the prodical child kicking the shit out of the moneylenders at the temple (and I always love a solemn sermon on that subject right before the money basket comes around) knowing he is going to be ratted out by Judas and treating him the best. Hanging around with IRS workers bar owners and ex hookers while snotting on the snotty Taking what he needs and sharing with his crew what is offered. Feeds and feels responsible for those who show up to hear him. Understands the fears a man will go thru and make allowances for it. (If Peter had not been told that he would chicken out 3 times before dawn would Peters shame have inspired him to such greatness? My point is if you focus on the message rather than the Pundits later you get a simple man with a simple message to be human as well as a Jew and something I would like to aspire to in my life. He was my definition of a MAN. thanx, bill can I have my ones and zeros back?
Post #2,531 by Steve Lowe 7/21/01 1:15:03 AM Reply	Good advice for anyone IMO My point is if you focus on the message rather than the Pundits later you get a simple man with a simple message to be human as well as a Jew and something I would like to aspire to in my life. He was my definition of a MAN VERY well said :-) ----- Steve
Post #2,537 by Fearless Freep 7/21/01 2:15:28 AM Reply	That's the problem what I was looking for was That's what you are looking for, in Jesus, to say he was a great man. The problem is, that's not all he said. He also said things like "Destroy this temple and I will rebuild it in three days" "Eat my body and drink my blood in my memory" "I and the Father are one" and claimed to forgive sins against God to have lived before Abraham to be the one fortold by the prohpets to be the Messiah and the King of the Jews You can't just pick and choose amongst what he did for what you like and say "that's how I judge him as a great man" because all you've really shown is what matters to you, not what he was about. This applies to anyone; whether you judge Nixon as a corrupt crook or a great statesman says as much about you and what you value as it does about who Nixon actually was. If you only take a small portion of Jesus teaching and based on those selective parts, you judge him a great man, you've only revealed your own values and actually done him a disservice but not judging him based on eveything he said and did. You look at the things he did and said and you want to admire him for doing and saying those things, but it's not that easy because he also did and said a lot of things that are not things you admire, so you select what you want to pay attention to and brush aside or ignore the rest. It's not that simple Jay O'Connor "Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
Post #2,574 by boxley 7/21/01 9:32:12 PM Reply	must have missed something "Destroy this temple and I will rebuild it in three days" he stated that could you provide the verse please? "Eat my body and drink my blood in my memory" definitely not kosher, any chance he knew he was for the highjump and using allegory, not for the first time to have his followers remember/think about him at dinner time? There is a group I sometimes get together with every few years where the first drink is always dedicated to fallen comrades, it is the same thing. (OT)It was passover so why do Christians celebrate with crackers and grape juice every Sunday instead of just at easter (passover)? "I and the Father are one" nothing new there I and my G_d are one also, he is either referencing the kabbala metaphysics of the Jews, the mormon version of heaven or the bhuddist This is not a new concept, only the mainstream Christians dont have this as part of their religion. to be the one fortold by the prophets and to be the Messiah and the King of the Jews well I dont recall him saying that only not denying that. If he was both all he had to do when he visited the temple was to touch the ark and live. He did not or there is no record of that so since all of the prophecies have not come to pass either he was not the messiah or he is doing this in 2 parts as you have suggested earlier. If that is the case we are waiting for the same being so peace brother. Just in a side note I am in no way questioning your belief or trying to persuede anyone against christianity, just discussing why I cant share that. thanx, bill can I have my ones and zeros back?
Post #2,581 by Another Scott 7/22/01 12:59:34 PM Reply	Some links. John 2:13-25 - [link\|http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JOHN+2&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=off&showxref=on\|[link\|http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JOHN+2\|http://bible.gospel...ssage=JOHN+2]&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=off&showxref=on] It's in the driving out of the moneychangers story you like. :-) A slightly differently worded version is in Mark 14:57-59 and Matthew 26:60-62. The trouble with statements like this is that you can't know what was authentic and what was added by later writers to attempt to draw parallels to OT writings, etc. Cheers, Scott.
Post #2,594 by boxley 7/22/01 7:44:10 PM Reply	I see he was foretelling his resurection and comparing his body with the temple. Comparing the body as the temple of G_d is an old concept. Resurection in 3 days was the new concept. Which incedentally is why a lot of older devout Jews dont like parts removed, they want all their stuff when the bodily resurection takes place. Going around without a liver due to an organ transplant would be inconvenient. thanx, bill Our bureaucracy and our laws have turned the world into a clean, safe work camp. We are raising a nation of slaves. Chuck Palahniuk

Welcome to IWETHEY!