Alternatives to IT work

Post #24,773 by nking 1/17/02 7:20:01 PM Reply	Alternatives to IT work Ok, it has been over a month since I was let go. I get interviews, but no job yet. The IT market in STL looks bleek still. What else can I do to earn a living? I thought about working in a video store, or warehouse. But then I thought about becoming a firefighter as long as I can pass that course they give. Because there is a shortage of firefighters after Sept 11th. Only problem I see is that I could get killed in a fire, but at least I'd die a hero trying to save someone. Security guard? Yeah if I want to work minimum wage for 80+ hours a week and come home half-dead. Help(Hell)desk work. Even this is hard to find. Pays minimum wage, or little over it. But at least I have the technical background so I wouldn't be a babysitter or someone that jerks around the customer. Pub Bouncer, I have a friend who does this. He wants me to join him. $5.50/hr, no benefits, and long hours at late hours. But I am likely to get hit in the head, or beaten up by drunken customers. There has to be an easier way to make money? Healthcare worker, which is just lower than a nurse (what my wife does, she is a LPN), but does the jobs the nurses don't want to do. I could go back to school and earn a CMT or EMT degree. Then I could push around people on a gurney, clean the sht out of their beds, take temps, etc. Or ride in an ambulance. This would be hard work and would put in long hours. Manager, I could join the dark side and become a manager or supervisor. Hey why not just shave off some hair to make two points on my head and join the PHBs? After all, they do make the big bucks and hardly know anything about the stuff the people know that are working for them. I can push papers as easily as the next person. Cook, I can't cook, yet becoming cook would help me learn how to cook. But how to get a job as a cook when I don't have the experience? "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."*
Post #24,788 by Another Scott 1/17/02 11:43:37 PM Reply	What do you like? You need to answer questions like that to figure out what type of job you want to try to get. Just listing random jobs isn't going to cut it. Some more questions that only you can answer - there's no need to tell us the answers :-) - just figure them out yourself and act on them. What's most important to you? Money? Being appreciated? Helping people? Working with your hands? Working with people? Working by yourself? Spare time? Benefits? Growth opportunities? What are your constraints? We know you don't want to leave STL. Ask yourself what's more important - being in STL or getting the kind of job you want. Be honest about your needs and requirements and where you want to be 5 years from now. How will your next job help you get to where you want to be? Remember that someone isn't going to hire you because you're a nice guy, or because you know a lot about VB, or because you work hard, or because you know a lot about computers. They're going to hire you, if they hire you, because the job you do brings in more to the company than you cost. (Employees can cost 2.5 times their salary.) If you can convince them that you'll help them earn more than you cost, you've got a better chance of getting the job than people who can't make that argument. Understand what the company is looking for and sell yourself as a person who can do that job in a way that makes the company more successful. Look into Civil Service jobs in the city, state and yes even the Federal government. Having a steady income with good benefits and a fairly secure position isn't something to turn down out-of-hand. Don't veto changing careers if, after thinking about it long and hard, you find that IT won't help you get to where you want to be. Supposedly most people have about 4 careers before they retire. If things are tough, then you have to be even more persistent. Look into working 2 jobs if you need extra income. I worked as a typist during the day and as a clerk/data entry person at night for almost a year. It was hard, and added nothing to my resume, but it paid the bills until my ship came in. Look into taking night classes and working days, or day classes and working nights if you think that more education and training will help you reach your goals. I hope this gives you some things to think about. I think the hardest part about job hunting is figuring out what the most important issues are and holding out until those are satisfied - and knowing which constraints have to wait until later. Best of luck with your search. Cheers, Scott.
Post #24,815 by nking 1/18/02 10:05:33 AM Reply	I am limited, it seems I am not really sure what I want, my last employer kind of confused me by not showing me respect and paying me far under the salary listed in a survey as average for my position and experience. But anyway: Money is important, I want to be able to earn $50,000USD a year or more. At least I'd like to. I may have to settle for less, if I work in a video store or something. Being apreciated and getting respect are two things that I want, yet didn't get from my previous employer. I was just a human resource to them, that they could throw away like a used tissue. I want growth, yet didn't get it from my previous job. I like working by myself, yet I can work in a team. My wife doesn't want me to leave the area, or else she will leave me. So if I do, my marriage is gone. It is a good marriage and I want to keep it. I need stability, I need an employer who is willing to work with me and help me to do my job. That means no broken promises, real IT training (as IT technology is always changing, this will make sure that I stay on course with the latest tech), no managers changing requirements and features at the last momment, an employer that understands my illness and is willing to work with it (or around it), one that doesn't treat its IT staff like inhuman trolls or something, when other employees are harassing me I expect management to do something about it instead of being too much of a wimp to even talk to the other employee, etc. In five years I expect to be in a project leader or project management position, possibly a supervior or manager position. My previous employer promised these things, but never promoted me. Another developer got promoted, but promptly quit after a few months and went back down to being a developer. I wouldn't do that, I'd stick to it. That other developer brownnosed a lot to get the promotion, see what brownnosers do when they get some responsibility? They chicken out. I saved the previous firm over millions of dollars. The docket calendar alone, did that because lawyers would forget court dates and miss trials. It wasn't that I cost the company money, it was that they thought they could hire someone to replace me at a lower salary so they could save money. I hope they don't get another codemonkey that doesn't know what he/she is doing and produce sloppy code like we had for a few other developers. But apparently that is what they want, and what they will get. They IT department and management has developed a "Fast Food" mentality. Get it done in days or weeks instead of months, by any means possible. Which means cutting corners, no documentatation, no debugging, and sloppy code that causes memory leaks and other problems. "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #24,825 by Steve Lowe 1/18/02 10:52:26 AM Reply	Only by your own thoughts All these things you mention should be on your resume. Specific projects and specific cost savings are magic, your docket calendar app is PERFECT. I suggest checking out [link\|http://webtraining.infoworld.com\|webtraining] at infoworld or other similar services. They even have a course on Project Management. It's $55 and well worth the investment to able to add "Project Management" to the list of skills on your resume, if that's where you want your career to go. (In fact it's $55 to take any/all of the courses in the 'Business Skills' category, you have a year. Pretty good deal IMHO.) You're not doing anything else, right? Norm, I say this with all due respect and with no negativity intended: your only limitation is yourself. Stop blaming your previous employer for things like wrong pay, no growth, and lack of training. These are, truly, your responsibility. If you think you're not getting paid enough, look elsewhere. Growth and training is a personal issue. It's nice when a company supports that through tuition assistance, in house training and development, and the like, but certainly not their responsibility. Did your last job offer tuition assistance? Did you take advantage of that? YOU have to make things happen for you, that's the only way they will. Peace and luck ----- Steve
Post #24,828 by CRConrad 1/18/02 11:11:15 AM Reply	Limited by your own definition of "good", perhaps? My wife doesn't want me to leave the area, or else she will leave me. So if I do, my marriage is gone. It is a good marriage and I want to keep it. Huh?!? You call that "good"??? Looking at things objectively, we have: A labour market on the brink of depression Norm, in the same condition, and with rather specific requirements for a job Ergo --> A very real possibility that you'll have to consider moving somewhere else in order to get the kind of job you want/need We also have: Something called "marriage", which most of us would take to mean an equal commitment from both spouses... A history since time began of people, all over the world, who have, when the need arose, upped stakes and moved to where they could get a job -- talking it over with their spouses, and taking said spouses with them A history since time began of people, all over the world, who have, when the need arose, upped stakes and moved with their spouses, to where said spouses could get a job Ergo --> A readiness to up stakes and move with your spouse to where said spouse can get a job seems to be very much a part of the generally accepted ("common-sense") definition of "equal commitment from both spouses" And, finally: A wife that threatens to leave Norm if he has to move A husband, Norm, who calls this a "good" marriage. What's wrong with this picture? Or, in other words: Who the fuck is she married to, anyway -- you, or the St. Louis area? Christian R. Conrad The Man Who Knows Fucking Everything
Post #24,863 by ben_tilly 1/18/02 5:57:43 PM Reply	One small logical error there... The ability of one spouse to find employment is not always the only key attribute. Often there are other factors which must be considered before a move. There are many reasons that someone can be tied to a geographical location, including by having a job, taking care of a sick family member (often moving old people or moving them into an openly dependent position can trigger a downhill slide), or being enrolled in an educational program. In these cases the inability of the other partner to get a job there may not be more important than the existing tie. Put another way, being in an equal relationship means that either person's needs may take priority over the other's depending on a natural give and take. Now I don't know Norm's situation, but this one strikes home to me given that in the next year I may have to move 1-2 times for my wife, and if I can't find employment it is, "Oh shit, see if we can borrow money." (The issue here being that my wife's educational prospects trump my current employment as a concern.) Cheers, Ben
Post #24,867 by Steve Lowe 1/18/02 6:44:00 PM Reply	Re: One small logical error there... Yup, there can be other factors. My situation, for example, is my son. He lives with me currently and spends weekends with his mom in Colorado Springs. If I were to make a move to another state, that would essentially be taking my son away from his mother..or him staying here with her and me not being able to see him. Not a good case either way. I'm stuck here (happily tho :-)) ----- Steve
Post #24,876 by boxley 1/18/02 8:23:40 PM Reply	Dont forget Mrs Nking has a stable Job as well as family all over the area. thanx, bill My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #24,883 by nking 1/18/02 10:49:06 PM Reply	Yes she does the same employer for over 15 years now. She worked her way up to a supervisor position. She has her father living here, her brother who hardly speaks any English that she has to help translate bills and stuff for, her grandmother's grave that she visits, her friends, my family (it is rare to find a woman that gets along with my mother and other family members), and other factors that makes us want to stay here. If I moved out, she would stay here and most likely file for a divorce or seperate from me. I also may not be able to make it by myself on my own, I could try, but I am not sure. "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #24,829 by Another Scott 1/18/02 11:11:51 AM Reply	You're confusing wants and needs. Hi, Money is important, I want to be able to earn $50,000USD a year or more. At least I'd like to. I may have to settle for less, if I work in a video store or something. You're confusing wants and needs. If your baseline expenses for a year require that you take home $25,000 a year, and you get a job that lets you take home $24,999 a year, then your needs aren't being met. You shouldn't take such a job because it doesn't meet your needs. You have to figure out what you need in a job. Needs must be satisfied. Wants are optional. If you think you need $50,000 a year, and you think you need to stay in STL, and you think you need to work in IT, and you're unable to find anything suitable, then something has to change. That's just the way job searches are sometimes. If you need a job to pay the bills while you wait for something else, then that's different from needing a good job to advance your career. You need to figure out what you're looking for. Saying "I'm looking for a job" isn't going to help you when you go on an interview if you're looking for more than something to pay the bills temporarily. Nobody here can tell you what you need. You have to figure that out yourself. Hang in there, and best of luck. Cheers, Scott. (Who's just trying to help.)
Post #24,790 by mhuber 1/18/02 1:46:45 AM Reply	Stop thinking and start doing Get out there and do the video store thing. It might thrill the heck out of you once you are really doing it. Take that firefighter exam. If you don't pass, you don't have to worry about being killed in a fire. Except that lots of people who aren't firefighers are, which is why there are fire fighters. You won't know what thrills you by thinking about it. Only by doing it. I'm pursuing an opportunity outside of computing because of how I felt doing some work just to pay a bill. I though it would suck. I loved it. I ain't going back in a box to pound keys all alone no more. ---- "You don't have to be right - just use bolded upper case" - annon.
Post #24,939 by mhuber 1/20/02 2:46:45 AM Reply	Get out there and do SOMETHING Yeah, the living wage is the goal. But for now, getting yourself in motion is the short-term goal. Now, I don't have much to say about the Protestant work ethic, beyond the impression that it sounds heretical and not in a good way to me. But it sounds to me like you are a man in desperate need of the pleasure that comes from doing something and getting paid for it. The living wage will come later. Now you need to so something - I reccomend something that will get you sweaty and require you to shower afterwards - that brings in a few bucks and the knowledge that you did something that somebody was willing to pay you for. I speak from experience. In my recent stretch of unemployment, the occasional odd job did me a world of good even though I wasn't getting paid a days expenses for a day's work. ---- "You don't have to be right - just use bolded upper case" - annon.
Post #24,960 by nking 1/20/02 5:41:24 PM Reply	I am out there coach, but nobody is passing me the ball That is nobody wants to hire me, yet. Most of the employers take their own sweet time getting back to me. Like those calling me now had my application and resume in Nov/Dec 2001. Some had it since 2000. Most that call me back, either set up one interview in a series of interviews, or tell me that while my background is impressive, they regret that they cannot hire me. Whatever that means. I've even applied for local jobs in stores and warehouses, and got nothing. Most saying I was overqualified, or that they have enough people and are starting to lay off after the holiday season is over. "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #25,422 by mhuber 1/24/02 2:56:40 AM Reply	Nobody ever passes anybody the ball - ya gotta steal it Well, actualy, I did get a couple of passes, and one of them worked out very nicely. But before that happened, I was hitting it hard. I printed personal business cards with contact info and my desired job title, and I handed those to everybody. Everybody. My daughter's orthodontist got one. People renting costumes at my wife's shop got one. Everybody I know, and everybody my wife knows, is aware of what I can do - and not just in my normal profession, because let's face it, my wife's ex-boss's sister doesn't need a web developer. But she does need the crap hauled out and the walls repainted in the flat her mother just vacated for a nursing home. If I weren't doing stuff like that, I'd never have had the huzpa to win the primo gig I'm doing now. Antidepressants help too. Look, I've just taken on a management position (I have no management experience) in a field where I have no experience, with "IS Manager" as a side-job to justify a salary way above the posted maximum for the position, because the President of the company desperately wanted to hire me even though I was completely honest about my lack of qualifications. And I'm going to make it, despite knowing jack about what I'm doing, because I feel good enough about myself to ask enough questions and delegate enough and generaly use the help my co-workers are offering so that a month from now I'll be the best damned Logistics Manager (whatever the hell that is) they ever saw. You don't go in desperate and unemployed and make that kind of impression. You go in confident and self-employed and ready do it. I got my share of rejection. Resume's and calls that didn't get answered, interviews that went nowhere. I didn't start winning until I convinced myself that my worst-case scenario was working my ass off in the crappy little jobs that are always, no matter how bad the economy or how widely distributed the blacklist, available, to keep my family alive. I came to the conclusion that I would survive, by sheer determined service and doing what needed to be done. I would not lose the house. My family would not starve. Life might suck bigtime, the credit card people and doctors might get real cranky and the taxman might have some questions, but we would survive. I got some more rejection after that. Attitude is NOT everything. And then I walked into an interview with my head high, knowing that I didn't need the job so much as the guy on the other side of the desk needed what I could do for him. OK, I was damned lucky. But I was ready to grab the lucky break and make something out of it. Yech. Stuart Smalley here - I'm going to make it - because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me! Pathetic. But true. ---- "You don't have to be right - just use bolded upper case" - annon.
Post #25,434 by Another Scott 1/24/02 7:59:32 AM Reply	and ... "Stuart Saves His Family"! It was a good film. :-) [link\|http://www.hollywood.com/movies/detail/movie/185437\|Review here.] Thanks. Cheers, Scott.
Post #24,806 by boxley 1/18/02 9:08:27 AM Reply	bad back leaves out firefighting Part of a standard physical exam is being able to carry/drag a 140lb dead weight 40 yards. Someone has to watch the kid so why not look into getting a childcare license for your home, I know many people who watch 3 kids and get an excellent income supplament. (and before anyone says anything, I have met Norm and would feel very safe letting him do childcare) look into city jobs as a supervisor of clerical staff. You have some time, run for city council and school board, a lot of places pay full time money for those part time jobs. thanx, bill My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #24,812 by nking 1/18/02 9:42:56 AM Reply	You are right I hadn't thought about that. I wouldn't be able to lift 140 pounds over 40 yards. While childcare may be good for some, I can hardly control my own 3 year old son. Triple that, and it may be more than I can handle. Thanks for the vote of confidence in this area. Supervisor jobs, I have already looked into this. It is a Catch-22 situation, I have to have prior supervisor experience to get one of those jobs, which means I have to have a superivor job before I can get a supervisor job. City Council or School Board, I have a past history of depression. My opponets will use that against me. Plus it costs money to run a campaign. "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #24,827 by tjsinclair 1/18/02 11:07:57 AM Reply	How about teaching? Pays better than minimum wage, clean indoor work, no heavy lifting. Look into local technical schools (like DeVry, for example) and toss your resume in. Typically, they look for folks with industry experience and good people skills. (Not to mention a lot of patience.) Do you have a degree? That helps, too. Tom Sinclair Speaker-to-Suits He was said to have the body of a twenty-five year old, although no one knew where he kept it. -- The Life and Times of Corporal Nobbs (Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms)
Post #24,849 by nking 1/18/02 3:21:43 PM Reply	Good people skills that is where I lack, apparently. I don't socialize much, and am unconfortable speaking in public and to a group of people. I could handle maybe one, two, or three people at once. Not 30 or 40 people. If I do, I risk a panic attack. I have a fear of crowds. "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #24,889 by tjsinclair 1/19/02 12:35:02 AM Reply	You could teach an online course... I've taken those. It basically consists of e-mail and a news server discussion list. No personal contact required. I mean, it seems a shame to let your talent, training and experience go to waste. (Jeeze, now I sound like your mom....) Tom Sinclair Speaker-to-Suits That seems to point up a significant difference between Europeans and Americans. A European says: "I can't understand this, what's wrong with me?" An American says: "I can't understand this, what's wrong with him?" -- (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)
Post #24,912 by nking 1/19/02 12:49:58 PM Reply	That would work I could do it from home then. All contacts via email and the tests are online ASP/PHP forms that get recorded to a database and automatically graded. I could even write the ASP/PHP programs myself. "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #24,832 by kmself 1/18/02 11:25:45 AM Reply	Strong Interest Inventory, WCIYP I'd strongly recommend you (and anyone else considering a career change) take the [link\|www.careers-by-design.com/strong_interest_inventory.htm\|Strong Interest Inventory] ([link\|http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=strong+interest+inventory\|Google]), a set of questions concerning activities you like/dislike, and how you compare to people in various careers. The SII is offered via many routes, most college/university career centers will offer it at a nominal (or no) charge, often even to alums. Otherwise, seek out career counseling services (commercial or government) in your area, community colleges, or possibly even high schools. I'd particulary recommend any college students listening (we got any anymore?) to take the test. Comparing results over time may be illuminating, particularly as you start doing the things you thought you wanted to do. Don't take the SII as a commandment, but as guidance. Another avenue is Richard Bolles's franchise, [link\|http://www.jobhuntersbible.com/\|What Color Is Your Parachute]. Though I don't think it quite deserves the raves it's had, the book is pretty solid, and is a compendium of information from many people, not just Bolles. His treatment of alternative career paths is particularly recommended. Realize that there's always the option of working for yourself -- you don't have to bow to The Man. `-- Karsten M. Self [link\|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com\|kmself@ix.netcom.com] [link\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/\|[link\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/\|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/]] What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?`
Post #24,834 by Steve Lowe 1/18/02 12:06:54 PM Reply	Strong (heh!) second on both counts! ----- Steve
Post #24,850 by nking 1/18/02 3:31:36 PM Reply	I took one of those in high school a long time ago. Computer Scientist came out on top of the list. Now that website you listed wants $60 to $80 to take the test, I recall taking it for free in 1985. Should I remind you that I haven't earned an income since Nov 30, 2001? Unemployment is disqualifying me because of what my employer said to them. I denied it and they only said they "Believed" I did it. I was told I was disqualfied for five weeks, but each week the paper I get from Unemployment says it is a week of disqualification. I am putting in claims, and did go do my monthly claim. It was a joke, they sent me to a computer, had me enter in my SSN and PIN, and then it said I was done. WTF? No people to talk to except that wise-cracking clerk who sent me to the computer terminal. I thought at least I'd get a career counciler or something? Major rip-off of Missouri state taxpayer money. Their employment website is a joke too, it doesn't keep track of the employers you applied for, and if you send your resume to the same one twice, they ignore you. Plus no job over $30,000USD a year on their database. With my medical bills, credit card bills, house payment, utilities, etc. I need a $50,000USD a year job to just break even. I cut out many things, such as Digital Cable, Cell Phone, etc. I could live on a lower salary, but I have to find something soon. I apparently cannot even get hired as a clerk, or customer service rep. Am I on some sort of blacklist or something? Is there a way to find out? "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #24,994 by bconnors 1/21/02 10:43:37 AM Reply	Norm - get a lawyer ASAP Fight for your rights. More importantly, fight for your good name and reputation. You know what my previous employer accused me of by my postings on the original IWETHEY website. Before my father died in 1993, he stressed his valuing of our family name and reputation to yourself, family, friends and the community at large. It's the old saying about "you can't take anything with you when you die but you leave behind what people think of you" (something to that effect). One of the best things that he taught me. I refused to let them deny me unemployment because of false accusations. I found a lawyer who had gone against them before and was willing to take my case. My wife and I argued about spending several hundreds dollars on legal fees when I had nothing coming in. I stressed how important it was that I clear my name by getting unemployment - had I not gotten it, it would have been a tacit admission that they were right with their charges. This way I could tell future employers that "they released me, I'm been receiving unemployment while I'm taking classes electronically and at night". No lies, no tricks, and you can keep your head up high during interviews. But had I never challenged them at all would have been to defeat myself and let them win without their even breaking a sweat. You will feel a perverse sense of pleasure when you hit them with questions that they will try to evade, hammering points that support your side while they dance around hard "Yes" or "No" answers. Like in a TV courtroom drama, making them squirm will help get that monkey off your back. Getting them to admit to some of your points will make your spirits soar. Am I still bitter about how I was treated almost 1 full year ago? Yes. I've never been through anything even close to that in my career. But I was lucky to find a new employer during a recession, where I'm paid much more, work at least 10 hours a week less, and have what I consider better management when it comes to dealing with their employees. It can be done, Norm. Break out of your funk, keep hitting the recruiters, consider all options (full time, part time, contracting) and don't give up hope. We're behind you. BConnors "Prepare for metamorphosis. Ready, Kafka?"
Post #24,998 by nking 1/21/02 11:42:05 AM Reply	Where do I look for a lawyer? So many choices, but I want a good one. Not one that is going to take my money, waste my time, drag on the case, and not care about winning it. I want one that can go right to the jugglar of the case, and get to the truth, and show that I was unjustly fired. An honest lawyer? Does such a person exist? I just saw that man with a lantern pass by again. :) "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #25,005 by boxley 1/21/02 12:04:07 PM Reply	Can you remember any law firms that your old one hated? There will be some animosity in that city of yours, use that. thanx, bill My Dreams aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be
Post #25,025 by nking 1/21/02 6:45:29 PM Reply	Nope, cannot remember them there was one major rival, but they made up and worked on a joint case project. But then law firms always try to stab the other in the back. Problem with the firm that I worked for, they are good at fabercating stuff. They could tell half a dozen employees to lie on the witness stand, or else they risk losing their jobs. They could hammer all the old proxy logs and destroy backup tapes and replace asptoday.com and others with different domain names to make it look like I was doing personal stuff on company time. The report to unemployment was that they "believed" that I did personal stuff on work time. In a way that is a major exageration, only personal stuff was if my wife and son was sick and I got called to pick up some medicine on the way home, or me calling a doctor when I was sick. But everyone does that stuff. Only difference is that they wanted me gone, so they had to invent a BS reason. Actually they used a different reason for each of the three times that they talked to Unemployment. They did not show any evidence, nor any witnesses that I did anything wrong. But in the State of Missouri, suspicion is good enough reason to fire someone. Hey, I heard a rumor that Bob is reading books at his cubical instead of working. Then Bob says "I am only reading my technical books so I can program better." But his coworkers told HR that he was reading personal books. Then later Bob gets terminated for doing personal business on company time. He packs up all his books, "Using ASP", "Using Visual BASIC", "Windows 2000 Unleashed", "Using SQL Server", and "Using HTML 4.0", no personal books and the HR lady sees it. But lets him go anyway. Bob apparently earns $55,000USD a year, and can now be replaced with someone who will earn $35,000USD a year. Does Bob have a case under Missouri Employment laws? Nope, because they suspected that he was doing personal business on work time. As long as they suspect it, they have reason to fire him. Maybe next job, Bob won't have Jerks and Jerkettes for coworkers. "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #25,405 by bconnors 1/23/02 11:37:12 PM Reply	lots of places Does St. Louis have an alternative newspaper? Many a hungry young lawyer advertise in their back pages. Know anybody who ever had a dispute with a former employer? Ask them who their lawyer was. Know anybody who had to go up against a city, county or state agency? Ask them. Call your local county's free legal referral service. The first person (or 10) they refer you to may suck, but you'll learn what to ask and learn what you want to hear. Keep asking the ones that treat you like a you're a waste of their time if they can give you a referral. How about the local colleges? Call them and see if they have grad students doing free once-a-month counseling. See if any of the teachers or professors give referrals or if they will actually talk to you. Post a note on some bulletin board wherever the law professors have their offices. Ask the students for their opinions: they'll be frank with you about the school staff and about the firms that they're doing internships at, along with good skinny on other firms around town. Check out usenet for opinions - lob a softball and see who responds; i.e., "Anybody know a good lawyer in St. Louis specializing in unemployment?" It'll take minimum real legwork, but a lot of legwork on the phone and networking. It can be done - I did it. BConnors "Prepare for metamorphosis. Ready, Kafka?"
Post #24,913 by nking 1/19/02 1:00:51 PM Reply	Other jobs I could work for I used to be an election judge for St. Louis County. Trouble is I can only work when an election comes up. I could apply for a supervisor position as well, as I have past experience working as a judge. I did this off and on during my college years. I could get a job as a critic, it seems I am good at complaining (I get this from my mother) about stuff. Plus I am always having a opinion on just about everything. I could be a consumer advocate/watchdog. Product Testing, I used to do this as well. A long time ago before college. They would pay me $10 to give them my opinions on a product after testing it. Usually those places in the mall, or somewhere else that call people to test. I could make a great video game beta tester, heh! Only problem is that I'd have to work at the same place they make the video games. A friend of mine wanted to do that for Sony, and they told him that he'd have to move out to where they code them. They didn't want them lost in the mail, or have someone steal them in the mail. I could write articles on Sci Fi and Technology subjects. I already write some for a newsletter for a Sci Fi group I am with, they gave me an award. I could work at home for that. I seem to write a lot of ZIWETHEY posts, and I could turn many short posts of mine into articles. With my illnesses, I could apply to be a test subject for medical research. I don't smoke or drink, and I don't use illegal drugs. So I should be a good canidate for testing some medication. "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."
Post #24,946 by slugbug 1/20/02 8:49:11 AM Reply	Attention: Norm.... Norm, what about this one? US-MO-St. Louis-Sr. Visual Basic 6.0 Architect Ajilon is a premier provider of information technology services. With 15,000 employees worldwide, Ajilon is a company full of opportunities and exciting new challenges. Currently the St. Louis District has a position available for a Sr. level Visual Basic 6.0 expert with a strong background in architecture and design. You will be in charge of architecting and re-designing the front-end of a system from the ground up. This is a client/server system with a VB 6.0 front-end, DB2 backend, with multi-platforms involved. LOCAL CANDIDATES ONLY NO 3rd PARTY APPLICANTS Additional Information Ref Code: 14575 Contact Information Ajilon - St. Louis, MO Lraybon@ajilon.com 425 S. Woods Mill Road Town & Country MO 63017 Ph: 800-434-2342 Fax: 314-434-7441
Post #24,959 by nking 1/20/02 5:36:54 PM Reply	Thanks, I haven't talked to them in a while, maybe since 2000 or 1999? The only thing I lack is DB2 experience. But SQL is SQL, and my Oracle and SQL Server experience has taught me how to adapt. "Will code Visual BASIC for cash."

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