At least the first batch puts my example to shame! :)

What could the Israelis have done to inspire such hate?

As I've said elsewhere, and even Condi said it today, part of the violence is inspired by Syrian and Iranian governments for their own purposes. Part of it is that Muslims have been feeling under attack for some time. Yes, some of the problem is cultural and some of it is due to ignorance. The cartoons were the final straw. Some Muslim clerics have been fanning the flames. There have been moderate Muslims speaking against the violence so you can't paint everyone with the same brush.

I do not think I had to defend the artist of the crucifix in piss. My only thought was "You poor bastard!" What was the point?

I make a big distinction between symbols and the things they represent. You can burn the American flag. I won't like it, but in the final analysis it's a piece of cloth. Kill innocent people and it's very different.

I'm all for peaceful demonstrations, but would never defend mob violence.

As for going back in history, try 1948 and Deir Yassin.

Are you saying that there's some kind of moral or ethical difference between the Israelis and the Palestinians?

I don't see one, just differences in methodology.

Assault helicopters versus suicide bombers. Tanks versus petrol bombs.

Bin Laden's a nasty piece of work, to be sure, and the president of Iran is clearly a woo-woo of the first water, but if we are to have any hope of retaining even a shred of our humanity in all this, we need to stop pretending that "they" are all that different from "us".

I believe in a world where people who perform criminal acts are brought to justice, whatever their tribal or religious association.

Your solution is, effectively, to nuke the middle east - Operation Desert Annulment. It'll work; after all, it's hard to be a suicide bomber when you've been converted to a handful of radioactive ash. But what's the cost to us, collectively, as a civilisation? Would we continue to live in our little "us versus them and WE WON" box?

The alternative, of course, is to make the protagonists in this sordid little drama discuss things like adults.

And we all know how likely that is.

Post #243,961 by a6l6e6x 2/9/06 12:54:00 AM Reply	At least the first batch puts my example to shame! :) What could the Israelis have done to inspire such hate? As I've said elsewhere, and even Condi said it today, part of the violence is inspired by Syrian and Iranian governments for their own purposes. Part of it is that Muslims have been feeling under attack for some time. Yes, some of the problem is cultural and some of it is due to ignorance. The cartoons were the final straw. Some Muslim clerics have been fanning the flames. There have been moderate Muslims speaking against the violence so you can't paint everyone with the same brush. I do not think I had to defend the artist of the crucifix in piss. My only thought was "You poor bastard!" What was the point? I make a big distinction between symbols and the things they represent. You can burn the American flag. I won't like it, but in the final analysis it's a piece of cloth. Kill innocent people and it's very different. I'm all for peaceful demonstrations, but would never defend mob violence. As for going back in history, try 1948 and Deir Yassin. Alex When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
Post #243,983 by boxley 2/9/06 8:22:48 AM Reply	you can go to 1929 hebron also but whats the point? Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #244,004 by a6l6e6x 2/9/06 10:41:35 AM Reply	Re: whats the point? The point is there is not a dime's worth of difference between Jews and Arabs or the rest of us for that matter. Alex When fascism comes to America, it'll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross. -- Sinclair Lewis
Post #244,006 by boxley 2/9/06 10:44:35 AM Reply	fair statement Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #244,200 by Arkadiy 2/10/06 11:57:01 PM Reply	Nothing I can do about this attitude May be, just may be, when Iran finally drops the Bomb on Tel-Aviv, or Mr. bin Laden delivers it to New York, your attitude will change. In the meantime, sweet dreams. ------ 179. I will not outsource core functions. -- [link\|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm\|.]
Post #244,209 by pwhysall 2/11/06 5:59:48 AM Reply	Re: Nothing I can do about this attitude Are you saying that there's some kind of moral or ethical difference between the Israelis and the Palestinians? I don't see one, just differences in methodology. Assault helicopters versus suicide bombers. Tanks versus petrol bombs. Bin Laden's a nasty piece of work, to be sure, and the president of Iran is clearly a woo-woo of the first water, but if we are to have any hope of retaining even a shred of our humanity in all this, we need to stop pretending that "they" are all that different from "us". I believe in a world where people who perform criminal acts are brought to justice, whatever their tribal or religious association. Your solution is, effectively, to nuke the middle east - Operation Desert Annulment. It'll work; after all, it's hard to be a suicide bomber when you've been converted to a handful of radioactive ash. But what's the cost to us, collectively, as a civilisation? Would we continue to live in our little "us versus them and WE WON" box? The alternative, of course, is to make the protagonists in this sordid little drama discuss things like adults. And we all know how likely that is. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #244,215 by boxley 2/11/06 10:01:22 AM Reply	moral difference Palestinians using mentally damaged youths aim them at women and children. Israelis use helocopters aiming at terrorists which occasionally cause bystanders deaths, All you have to do is look at the total deaths by gender and age. Even the Palestinians admit the moral difference. When an Iraqi twit blew up a Palestinian wedding in Jordan there was howls of outrage from the palestinians. I also am the first to admit a 5 megatonn device on the dome of the Rock would solve a lot of problems. than, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #244,224 by pwhysall 2/11/06 11:09:03 AM Reply	Re: moral difference And the Israelis nicked the land in the first place, and the British before that. And what about all that in the early eighties in Jordan? Sabra and Chatila ring a bell? Still want to push the "no moral equivalence" button? The aforementioned 5 megatonne device wouldn't solve shit, Bill. All that would happen would be that every vacillating Muslim sort-of-extremist-but-not-quite from Algeria to Indonesia would suddenly have a moment of clarity - that moment being "Imma blow me away some INFIDELS!". Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #244,225 by boxley 2/11/06 11:14:27 AM Reply	naw, they'll blame it on the Jews as usual :-) Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #244,229 by Another Scott 2/11/06 11:47:15 AM Reply	s /Jordan/Lebanon/ perhaps?
Post #244,231 by pwhysall 2/11/06 12:06:39 PM Reply	Ar. Slip of the brain. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #244,240 by Another Scott 2/11/06 12:37:46 PM Reply	It's not unusual for some to have Jordan on the brain... nee Katie Price. ;-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #244,245 by pwhysall 2/11/06 12:54:49 PM Reply	Not on the brain as such... Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #244,235 by boxley 2/11/06 12:31:20 PM Reply	israeli's didnt nick it, they paid cash for most of it then sat on the rest. No one else was using it, the natives were just tribesmen hunting over the land no one owned it, shit wrong argument :-) palestinians killed the palestinians in those 2 mentioned incidents while Israel turned a blind eye. Kinda like the RUC. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #244,223 by Arkadiy 2/11/06 11:07:02 AM Reply	My solution? Thanks for putting words in my mouth, pal. ------ 179. I will not outsource core functions. -- [link\|http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord2.htm\|.]

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