Entirely futile

Post #243,760 by Andrew Grygus 2/7/06 3:28:17 PM Reply	Entirely futile Scientists studying the brain have found interesting evidence that creation of a god explanation as a shortcut to understanding events is pretty much hard wired and most people are unable to or just don't care to overcome that. Wipe out everybody and you'll repopulate with pretty much the same sort. Blow it back into the stone age and you'll just repopulate with a stone age mentality. Religions that become a danger to everyone else must be restrained by everyone else and Islam is pretty much getting there. I think the politics of religious tolerance will hold that restraint off until some major damage is done and then the only way seen to control Islam will be extreme. Every time I criticize the primitave violence and bigotry of the Jewish documents on which the Old Testament is based I'm told all this crap is explained away in 230,000 paragraphs of the Talmud. Well, if any religion needs a Talmud it's Islam - but the founders of Islam anticipated that and explicitly banned any such thing. This is going to hurt them severely. The 21st century is no place for a 9th century religion. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #243,873 by mmoffitt 2/8/06 1:42:25 PM Reply	But don't you think it odd that all the ME religions... think their way is the only way? The Islamic extremists are not much different from evangelical Christians who are not much different from regular Christians. This insane view, that only one of the western big 3 has the answer doesn't show up much in the Buddhist/Taoist/Shinto/Confucian part of the world. I mean, where is the Eastern religions' parallel to the Islamic Jihad, the Holocaust (the Nazis were good Christians dontchaknow), the Spanish Inquistion, the Crusades, the slaughter of native North Americans because "Hell, these savages ain't even Christian."? I'm no Western Civ major, but it sure seems to me that Religious Wars are a Western (read: Mesopotamian) Religious construct. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #243,875 by boxley 2/8/06 2:03:16 PM Reply	chinese are not middle eastern and have been slaughtering with glee for 5k years. Hindus have a regular habit of burning people alive. Who is shiva? What is thugee? Animists are killers. If you are human, killing the different is a builtin. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #243,877 by mmoffitt 2/8/06 2:12:27 PM Reply	Chinese? Care to give me a linky to where some Chinese religious fanatics decided that anyone "not of their faith" needs to be killed? I never said that western religion was the sole motivator for atrocities, but it is clearly one and perhaps even the largest one. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #243,879 by Another Scott 2/8/06 2:24:26 PM Reply	I thought Maoism and Stalinism were on top. [link\|http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm\|Linky]. Cheers, Scott.
Post #243,881 by jb4 2/8/06 2:38:35 PM Reply	Those are (allegedly) that antithesis of Religion Marxism et al eschewed Religion as the "opiate of the masses" and was to have it expunged from his proletariat ~~dys~~utopia... jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #243,884 by Andrew Grygus 2/8/06 2:55:00 PM Reply	To be replaced as opiate by you know what. When religion is in politics and politics is in religion it's all the same thing regardless of what you call it. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #243,882 by boxley 2/8/06 2:40:52 PM Reply	here ya go [link\|http://www.smplanet.com/imperialism/fists.html\|http://www.smplanet....ialism/fists.html] A secret society, known as the Fists of Righteous Harmony, attracted thousands of followers. Foreigners called members of this society "Boxers" because they practiced martial arts. The Boxers also believed that they had a magical power, and that foreign bullets could not harm them. Millions of "spirit soldiers," they said, would soon rise from the dead and join their cause. Their cause, at first, was to overthrow the imperial Ch'ing government and expel all "foreign devils" from China. The crafty empress, however, saw a way to use the Boxers. Through her ministers, she began to encourage the Boxers. Soon a new slogan -- "Support the Ch'ing; destroy the foreigner!" -- appeared upon the Boxers' banner. In the early months of 1900, thousands of Boxers roamed the countryside. They attacked Christian missions, slaughtering foreign missionaries and Chinese converts. Then they moved toward the cities, attracting more and more followers as they came. Nervous foreign ministers insisted that the Chinese government stop the Boxers. From inside the Forbidden City, the empress told the diplomats that her troops would soon crush the "rebellion." Meanwhile, she did nothing as the Boxers entered the capital. Foreign diplomats, their families, and staff lived in a compound just outside the Forbidden City's walls in the heart of Beijing. Working together, they threw up hasty defenses, and with a small force of military personnel, they faced the Boxer onslaught. One American described the scene as 20,000 Boxers the mongols did the same, han, ming back into history. wash rinse repeat. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #243,896 by Simon_Jester 2/8/06 5:00:25 PM Reply	Really reaching there box.... The boxers, iirc, were up in arms because the Chinese government wasn't doing enough to stop the opium trade coming from England. (Long story, China would only trade gold for tea....and Englishmen had to have their tea.) But while they wanted to throw out the invaders...there were pretty damn good reasons for wanting to do so. Thuggee is a far better reference.
Post #243,917 by boxley 2/8/06 8:51:48 PM Reply	secret societies with magic powers dime a dozen in china dont forget one of the main characters of that era the taipeng rebellion [link\|http://www.mrdowling.com/613-taiping.html\|http://www.mrdowling.../613-taiping.html] The rebellion began in southeast China, a region that never fully accepted the Qing, who came from Manchuria in northeast China. Hong Xiuquan had learned of Christianity from missionaries. In 1843, when he failed his examination for a government job for the fourth time, Hong exploded in rage at the Manchu domination of China. He read a translated version of the Christian Bible, which told the story of how a chosen group of people rebelled against their rulers with God's help. The stories seemed to explain visions Hong had during an earlier mental illness. Hong came to believe that he was the Son of God and the younger brother of Jesus. His mission on earth was to rid China of evil influences. They included Manchus, Taoists, Buddhists, and Confucians. Hong's religion combined traditional Chinese ideas with half-understood Christianity. Many famine-stricken peasants, workers, and miners were attracted to the new faith. The converts believed that God ordered them to destroy Manchu rule and set up a new Christian brotherhood. A small group of believers grew to more than one million disciplined, zealous soldiers. In 1851, Hong proclaimed a new dynasty, the Taiping, which means "Great Peace," and assumed the title "Heavenly King." Two years later, the Taiping army captured Nanking, a large city in central China. the chinese are as capable of fuckwittery as any mad sinai desert dweller seeing visions. Compare same to crazy horse. Visions, religion and butchery go hand in hand followed by the bean counters to run it like a business and then it becomes a mainstream belief. As to your point about throwing out foreign invaders are the bedrock of both the Jewish and Muslim beliefs. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #243,919 by ben_tilly 2/8/06 8:54:51 PM Reply	Interesting that you picked one based on Christianity I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #243,924 by boxley 2/8/06 9:05:36 PM Reply	okay the freakin japs wernt christian and they slaughtered the fuck out of every nation in the orient on behalf of their god emperor in WW2, tough crowd here. thanx, bill Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #243,956 by ben_tilly 2/8/06 10:56:54 PM Reply	That's a much better example :-) I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #243,883 by Andrew Grygus 2/8/06 2:52:56 PM Reply	I agree that the 'Three Revealed Religions' are . . . . . particularly dangerous because they were designed specifically to deploy the lowest rabble into overthrowing superior cultures and are thus easy tools for the politically ambitious who cloak themselves in God. Compared to other religions these three are primitive tribalism simplified to absurdity - one all powerful God who favors only one poeple. They glorify ignorance, bigotry and violence using a vengeful God as their example. Christianity started out as comfort for the downtrodden, but then the rabble rousers found they could mobilize the downtrodden and took over, brought in the Old Testament to support their authority and things went bad from there. I find it very difficult to consider anyone who preaches the Old Testament a Christian. Islam simply took the very worst aspects of this revised Christianity, wrung out the better parts and used it as a tool to bring civilizations down into poverty and ignorance. The so called "Golden Age of Islam" was simply the time it took to wring the conquered civilizations out of the people. Unfortunately, wiping out the Middle East will do little to bring this under control. Just like nuclear weapons, the cat is out of the bag and has spread worldwide. The technology is well known and will be applied by rabble rousers from here on out in the name of whatever God they find convenient. A policy of containment and education is necessary. Unfortunately, the current administration in their ignorance and stupidity has handed power to the Islamic rabble rousers in the name of democracy making the situation far worse than it needed to be. Just the opposite of containment. I suspect there will eventually be a devistating WMD attack on the U.S. and the U.S. response will be to nuke Mecca or something similar. This will percipitate a slaughter of all Christians and Jews (and a lot of others) in Islamic countries, which will be returned in kind. The world will be cast into a bloodbath it will take a century or more to recover from. Ain't God great? [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #243,893 by jb4 2/8/06 4:34:48 PM Reply	You didn't mention the following detail I suspect there will eventually be a devistating WMD attack on the U.S.[...] And who will effect that attack? If you answered "al Qaeda" or some other ME terrorist group...Bzzzzzt...thank you for playing. Think closer to home. jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration
Post #243,900 by ben_tilly 2/8/06 6:28:41 PM Reply	Cambodia I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #244,098 by mmoffitt 2/10/06 8:13:06 AM Reply	Religion was banned by the Khmer Rouge. Thanks for playing. bcnu, Mikem It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
Post #244,108 by boxley 2/10/06 8:58:08 AM Reply	try 500 years earlier Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 50 years. meep
Post #244,132 by ben_tilly 2/10/06 10:56:44 AM Reply	That's because they didn't call their religion a religion Many religions ban all others - that's hardly unique. They just don't want the competition. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #244,148 by jb4 2/10/06 12:27:13 PM Reply	Sorta like Micros~1; Product can't stand up on its own... jb4 "Every Repbulican who wants to defend Bush on [the expansion of Presidential powers], should be forced to say, 'I wouldn't hesitate to see President Hillary Rodham Clinton have the same authority'." &mdash an unidentified letter writer to Newsweek on the expansion of executive powers under the Bush administration

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