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New Re: Hindsight
Black trenchcoat == Goth. Guy at my church wears one.


Man, I'd be worried about him if it were me.

Drawing skeletons == Artistic, little weird. My daughter and step daughter have drawn skeletons.


The skeletons didn't bug me as much as the skulls pierced by bullets.

Red shoe laces - Maybe.


For anyone who studied the Columbine Shooting (of which I am one of), it was a trademark of the shooters to wear combat boots with red laces.

Mays comments - hindsight. If Jeff "Fit the profile", why didn't he say anything. Never thought of it until afterwards (imo)


Maybe so. Maybe he saw it ahead of time and didn't want to say anything. We won't know until/unless he says more.

Suicidal - fits lots of teens, and adults. Remember this is kids saying, not professionals.


True, but any time I hear anyone I know or associate with or around me, is suicidal, I TELL someone. Case in point, I did it with our former suicidal member. Even if they had told people he was talking about suicide or being suicidal, he might have received some help that might have prevented this tragedy. Maybe, maybe not, hard to predict something like that.

Shoot up the school - Saying it once (last year and it was investigated, from previous articles, and deemed without threat)


I was not aware it had been investigated, but my question would be how and why was it deemed without threat? Just because he said so??? I think there should be something in between suspension and jail that would deal with these issues. We talked about this once before on here, there is simply nothing in place to handle this when it comes up that works.

If you read all the articles, you'll notice that he was a loner. No one could tell you about him. None of the adults knew him. The TOWN's population is only 1800. Reservation population around 5000. For noone to know him he kept himself out of trouble.


As soon as I feel more like searching I will hunt up a lot more on it, I promise. But scanning hundreds of links trying to pick out the best ones to read isn't something I can handle right now... (sadly enough, because I have too much to do to be sick, but I don't feel like doing much of anything. Sigh. )

He was different, therefore teased, picked on, and blamed for everything.


And so were the Columbine Shooters.

The news media has pointed out the similiarities. Until then, most people never even thought of it. Most assume, correctly, it won't happen here. You can't lock up, put into therapy, analyze everyone who is different, wears trenchcoats, draws "disturbing" pictures, etc.


That's why I said there should be something in the middle, some way to handle these kids and the threats to schools and other students.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#



"The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr
New I wear size 14 steelies...
...with black boot laces.

I have a long dark coat.

I have written dark, violent fiction, and have a penchant for death metal and grinding industrial music.

And you know what?

I never shot up a school, kicked a kitten, or was even rude to the teachers.

Appearances mean little.


Peter
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New Appearances
Appearances mean little.


They have to be taken in context, Peter. It isn't as simple as everyone who dresses like this echoes this and that, it's watching how and when it happens. If this student suddenly started dressing in the black coat, or suddenly wore the shoelaces. If he wears nothing BUT the trench coat and shoes with red laces, if he suddenly exhibited odd behavior.

You have to look at the circumstances, (i.e. a dtudent in a school setting), and the nature of the changes (i.e. when did he start doing this, after he talked about shooting up the school? Right after Columbine? etc. etc. etc.).

I'm not dumb enough to believe everything is as black and white as if this person dresses like this or does this, he's bound to do this... it has to have more factors than just that.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#



"The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr
New Re: Appearances
Appearances mean little.


They have to be taken in context, Peter. It isn't as simple as everyone who dresses like this echoes this and that, it's watching how and when it happens. If this student suddenly started dressing in the black coat, or suddenly wore the shoelaces. If he wears nothing BUT the trench coat and shoes with red laces, if he suddenly exhibited odd behavior.

Gosh, really? Thanks for patronising me. I'd never have guessed that things like that have to be taken in context. Brenda, I live in my boots - they're practically sentient. I wear my long coat EVERY DAY. I wore it (well, one like it) EVERY DAY when I was at college and University. And red laces? Give me strength.
Stop watching the kids and start talking to them. <-- clue, quite important[0]
You have to look at the circumstances, (i.e. a dtudent in a school setting), and the nature of the changes (i.e. when did he start doing this, after he talked about shooting up the school? Right after Columbine? etc. etc. etc.).

I imagine that pretty much every even slightly disaffected kid in America (and across the Western world, come to that) pondered gunning up their classmates, post-Columbine. Some weren't smart enough to keep their mouths shut.
But tonight, on Mastermind, Brenda's chosen specialised subject will be The Bleeding Obvious. </Fawlty>
I'm not dumb enough to believe everything is as black and white as if this person dresses like this or does this, he's bound to do this... it has to have more factors than just that.

Bingo!
You scored two points and no passes.
[0]quite important in the same way that the Sun is quite hot.


Peter
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Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Whatever
I wasn't trying to patronize you.. I don't even hardly know what the word means.

If I offended you, I'm sorry. I was stating things I've studied, and I've been studying about school shootings ever since slightly before Columbine.

I'm not up for this today, I have to go lie down. But I wasn't trying to patronize you, whatever that is. I'll deal with anything else when I feel better.

Brenda
Nightowl >8#



"The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr
New ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #200192 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=200192|ICLRPD]
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
     Another school shooting? - (warmachine) - (69)
         The grandfather was a policeman. - (Another Scott)
         Generally by the handgrips or stock -NT - (drewk)
         birthday presents when they are 8 years old? - (boxley) - (9)
             Aren't guns locked up so kiddies can't get them? -NT - (warmachine) - (8)
                 Ah, but guns don't kill people, remember. -NT - (pwhysall) - (3)
                     But They ARE consistent: They have LOTS of people locked up. -NT - (CRConrad) - (2)
                         But it's The Land Of The Free(TM)(R)! -NT - (pwhysall) - (1)
                             Yah, well, I'll bet the locked-up ones don't Own much land.. -NT - (CRConrad)
                 Why should the guns have been locked? - (jbrabeck) - (2)
                     met folks from that rez, small community, sux -NT - (boxley)
                     I'll give ya that one - (warmachine)
                 what good is a gun if you cant get to them? - (boxley)
         Who cares? He was just a redskin - (drewk) - (50)
             Without video, TV doesn't care. With video, it's everywhere. -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                 Here's the real reason for less coverage - (Nightowl)
             We have the coverage here - (jbrabeck) - (46)
                 Did you *really* not get the sarcasm? -NT - (drewk) - (1)
                     No, I got it - (jbrabeck)
                 Ditto here - (Nightowl) - (13)
                     Where? - (jbrabeck) - (12)
                         All I know is what I heard - (Nightowl) - (11)
                             Use the links in previous post - (jbrabeck) - (10)
                                 I can read the Tribune - (Nightowl) - (9)
                                     Hindsight - (jbrabeck) - (7)
                                         Re: Hindsight - (Nightowl) - (5)
                                             I wear size 14 steelies... - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                                 Appearances - (Nightowl) - (3)
                                                     Re: Appearances - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                                         Whatever - (Nightowl) - (1)
                                                             ICLRPD (new thread) - (ben_tilly)
                                         Here's some more links - (Nightowl)
                                     look at the suicide rates of native teens vs others - (boxley)
                 Darn right it's an American problem - (bionerd) - (29)
                     Strays OFF the path of normalcy? - (ben_tilly)
                     How old are your kids? - (jbrabeck) - (27)
                         You said it - (Nightowl) - (25)
                             There's a much simpler solution - (jake123) - (24)
                                 Re: There's a much simpler solution - (Nightowl) - (22)
                                     Good lord - (jake123) - (21)
                                         How could that have been accomplished - (Nightowl) - (9)
                                             Police are supposed to have guns - (jake123) - (8)
                                                 So tell me... - (Nightowl) - (7)
                                                     Yeah, but you live in the US - (jake123) - (5)
                                                         Does carrying including storing? - (Nightowl) - (4)
                                                             Not a lot of people gunning - (jake123) - (3)
                                                                 Thanks for explaining that - (Nightowl)
                                                                 go down to verdun and get one - (boxley) - (1)
                                                                     Hey box, I've not been in Mtl for over two years now - (jake123)
                                                     In the military - (Steven A S)
                                         Step 1: take an axe to police officer... -NT - (Arkadiy) - (10)
                                             Step 2: be restrained by said officer's partner. -NT - (jake123) - (9)
                                                 Ideally, yes. But it only takes one lucky malcontent - (Arkadiy) - (8)
                                                     Besides - (Nightowl) - (7)
                                                         Holy geez, try to keep up - (jake123) - (6)
                                                             I'm trying - (Nightowl) - (2)
                                                                 Nah, I'm sorry - (jake123) - (1)
                                                                     No problem - (Nightowl)
                                                             Re: Holy geez, try to keep up - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                                 The Binary option? -NT - (jb4)
                                                             I meant that the perp needs to get lucky against a cop - (Arkadiy)
                                 last weekin atlanta one guy in jail kills 4 people - (boxley)
                         Re: How old are your kids? - (bionerd)
             yea, fox news is already jumping on that bandwagon - (daemon)
         Some editorials from the local newpaper - (jbrabeck)
         Question about the Tribal Chairman's comments - (drewk) - (2)
             He may mean - (jbrabeck)
             much darker,inflicted by a full blood (appearing) - (boxley)
         Checkout the flash - (broomberg) - (1)
             there is the root cause, listening to John Lennon tunes - (boxley)

Looks like a helluva party to me! Begone evil spirits!!
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