Use the links in previous post

Post #200,162 by jbrabeck 3/23/05 3:42:48 PM Reply	Use the links in previous post For Strib iwethey/iwethey should get you in (if not post here and I'll fix it) For Bemidji, you'll have to create an account. They want email address for account id. A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #200,163 by Nightowl 3/23/05 3:56:13 PM Reply	I can read the Tribune I can't get to the other one and I can't do something like make an account without checking with John. That aside, here is what I got from the article: Article said: He often wore "a big old black trench coat," she said, and drew pictures of skeletons. "He talked about death all the time." << Most schools I know of (or at least read about) banned wearing black trench coats, because they were symbolic of the Columbine Shooters. I'm really surprised that he was allowed to wear this in school and that no one put that together. That wouldn't stand on it's own, but combined with the comments and drawings, it might hold more weight. Article quoted:>>A couple of his friends had said he was suicidal, she said. They quoted him as saying once, "That would be cool if I shot up the school." The friends dismissed it as talk, Hegstrom said.<< I wouldn't have. If I saw the trench coat, and the shoes with the red laces, (which were also symbolic of the Columbine shooters)and heard that even once, I would have told a teacher if I were a student. Article said:>>But Willy May, 18, who knew Weise from school, said people shouldn't have been surprised. "He fits the profile of a Columbine shooter, man," he said. May said Weise always wore combat boots "with red shoelaces," similar to those of the shooters at Columbine High School. He said that Weise "always had stacks of drawings, disturbed drawings." Some, he said, would show people with bullets going through their skulls. May also said that "a while back," Weise "got blamed" for phoning in bomb threats at the school. "I'm not sure if it was him or not, but he got blamed," May said.<< Now this is a kid who saw it all, he saw what I would have seen. I just wish he had said something about it. People can say there were no clues, no indications this would happen or that this kid was serious, but I see a lot of clues and indications. My guess is that they just chose not to look or notice. Or pretended it wasn't serious. Bet they're wishing otherwise now. Brenda Nightowl >8# "The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr
Post #200,170 by jbrabeck 3/23/05 4:56:07 PM Reply	Hindsight Black trenchcoat == Goth. Guy at my church wears one. Drawing skeletons == Artistic, little weird. My daughter and step daughter have drawn skeletons. Red shoe laces - Maybe. Mays comments - hindsight. If Jeff "Fit the profile", why didn't he say anything. Never thought of it until afterwards (imo) Suicidal - fits lots of teens, and adults. Remember this is kids saying, not professionals. Shoot up the school - Saying it once (last year and it was investigated, from previous articles, and deemed without threat) If you read all the articles, you'll notice that he was a loner. No one could tell you about him. None of the adults knew him. The TOWN's population is only 1800. Reservation population around 5000. For noone to know him he kept himself out of trouble. He was different, therefore teased, picked on, and blamed for everything. The news media has pointed out the similiarities. Until then, most people never even thought of it. Most assume, correctly, it won't happen here. You can't lock up, put into therapy, analyze everyone who is different, wears trenchcoats, draws "disturbing" pictures, etc. The most telling, was the statement from FBI and RL police "He wasn't on our radar", iow he wasn't deemed a threat. A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
Post #200,174 by Nightowl 3/23/05 5:11:34 PM Reply	Re: Hindsight Black trenchcoat == Goth. Guy at my church wears one. Man, I'd be worried about him if it were me. Drawing skeletons == Artistic, little weird. My daughter and step daughter have drawn skeletons. The skeletons didn't bug me as much as the skulls pierced by bullets. Red shoe laces - Maybe. For anyone who studied the Columbine Shooting (of which I am one of), it was a trademark of the shooters to wear combat boots with red laces. Mays comments - hindsight. If Jeff "Fit the profile", why didn't he say anything. Never thought of it until afterwards (imo) Maybe so. Maybe he saw it ahead of time and didn't want to say anything. We won't know until/unless he says more. Suicidal - fits lots of teens, and adults. Remember this is kids saying, not professionals. True, but any time I hear anyone I know or associate with or around me, is suicidal, I TELL someone. Case in point, I did it with our former suicidal member. Even if they had told people he was talking about suicide or being suicidal, he might have received some help that might have prevented this tragedy. Maybe, maybe not, hard to predict something like that. Shoot up the school - Saying it once (last year and it was investigated, from previous articles, and deemed without threat) I was not aware it had been investigated, but my question would be how and why was it deemed without threat? Just because he said so??? I think there should be something in between suspension and jail that would deal with these issues. We talked about this once before on here, there is simply nothing in place to handle this when it comes up that works. If you read all the articles, you'll notice that he was a loner. No one could tell you about him. None of the adults knew him. The TOWN's population is only 1800. Reservation population around 5000. For noone to know him he kept himself out of trouble. As soon as I feel more like searching I will hunt up a lot more on it, I promise. But scanning hundreds of links trying to pick out the best ones to read isn't something I can handle right now... (sadly enough, because I have too much to do to be sick, but I don't feel like doing much of anything. Sigh. ) He was different, therefore teased, picked on, and blamed for everything. And so were the Columbine Shooters. The news media has pointed out the similiarities. Until then, most people never even thought of it. Most assume, correctly, it won't happen here. You can't lock up, put into therapy, analyze everyone who is different, wears trenchcoats, draws "disturbing" pictures, etc. That's why I said there should be something in the middle, some way to handle these kids and the threats to schools and other students. Brenda Nightowl >8# "The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr
Post #200,180 by pwhysall 3/23/05 5:25:25 PM Reply	I wear size 14 steelies... ...with black boot laces. I have a long dark coat. I have written dark, violent fiction, and have a penchant for death metal and grinding industrial music. And you know what? I never shot up a school, kicked a kitten, or was even rude to the teachers. Appearances mean little. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #200,184 by Nightowl 3/23/05 5:38:12 PM Reply	Appearances Appearances mean little. They have to be taken in context, Peter. It isn't as simple as everyone who dresses like this echoes this and that, it's watching how and when it happens. If this student suddenly started dressing in the black coat, or suddenly wore the shoelaces. If he wears nothing BUT the trench coat and shoes with red laces, if he suddenly exhibited odd behavior. You have to look at the circumstances, (i.e. a dtudent in a school setting), and the nature of the changes (i.e. when did he start doing this, after he talked about shooting up the school? Right after Columbine? etc. etc. etc.). I'm not dumb enough to believe everything is as black and white as if this person dresses like this or does this, he's bound to do this... it has to have more factors than just that. Brenda Nightowl >8# "The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr
Post #200,188 by pwhysall 3/23/05 5:50:56 PM Reply	Re: Appearances Appearances mean little. They have to be taken in context, Peter. It isn't as simple as everyone who dresses like this echoes this and that, it's watching how and when it happens. If this student suddenly started dressing in the black coat, or suddenly wore the shoelaces. If he wears nothing BUT the trench coat and shoes with red laces, if he suddenly exhibited odd behavior. Gosh, really? Thanks for patronising me. I'd never have guessed that things like that have to be taken in context. Brenda, I live in my boots - they're practically sentient. I wear my long coat EVERY DAY. I wore it (well, one like it) EVERY DAY when I was at college and University. And red laces? Give me strength. Stop watching the kids and start talking to them. <-- clue, quite important[0] You have to look at the circumstances, (i.e. a dtudent in a school setting), and the nature of the changes (i.e. when did he start doing this, after he talked about shooting up the school? Right after Columbine? etc. etc. etc.). I imagine that pretty much every even slightly disaffected kid in America (and across the Western world, come to that) pondered gunning up their classmates, post-Columbine. Some weren't smart enough to keep their mouths shut. But tonight, on Mastermind, Brenda's chosen specialised subject will be The Bleeding Obvious. </Fawlty> I'm not dumb enough to believe everything is as black and white as if this person dresses like this or does this, he's bound to do this... it has to have more factors than just that. Bingo! You scored two points and no passes. [0]quite important in the same way that the Sun is quite hot. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #200,191 by Nightowl 3/23/05 5:58:56 PM Reply	Whatever I wasn't trying to patronize you.. I don't even hardly know what the word means. If I offended you, I'm sorry. I was stating things I've studied, and I've been studying about school shootings ever since slightly before Columbine. I'm not up for this today, I have to go lie down. But I wasn't trying to patronize you, whatever that is. I'll deal with anything else when I feel better. Brenda Nightowl >8# "The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr
Post #200,193 by ben_tilly 3/23/05 6:01:02 PM Reply	ICLRPD (new thread) Created as new thread #200192 titled [link\|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=200192\|ICLRPD] I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #200,226 by Nightowl 3/23/05 8:30:33 PM Reply	Here's some more links [link\|http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_082180105.html\|http://wcco.com/tops...ry_082180105.html] One says he wasn't a loner after all [link\|http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_082180105.html\|http://wcco.com/tops...ry_082180105.html] One even points to his Blog [link\|http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/twincities/news/special_packages/red_lake/\|http://www.contracos...ackages/red_lake/] (I can't get into to read without making an account), that they say describes a lot of this. He blogged all this online and no one told anyone? Man... You're right, Jrabeck, it all comes out in hindsight. Brenda "The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself." -- Hitopadesa 600?-1100? AD, Sanskrit Fable From Panchatantr
Post #200,197 by boxley 3/23/05 6:25:37 PM Reply	look at the suicide rates of native teens vs others as well as the rates of violence in same, they may or may not have taken it in the same light as whitebread middleclass kids. thanx, bill All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]

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