Post #168,844
8/12/04 3:51:29 AM
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Why am I bothered with this . . .
Why am I bothered with this "REALLY mark all forums read?" crap. Has IWeThey been moved to Windows? Isn't this the Windows way of doing things? I figured this would go away after a while but it hasn't. If I didn't want to mark all forums read I wouldn't have clicked on "Mark all Forums Read" for crissake.
Is this another example of "feature creep"? I know programmers can't leave something that works alone - they are psychologically compelled, like lemmings, to add "features" until the whole thing is too top heavy to support itself and collapses into the bit bucket.
Then they bad mouth it and write a beta of a replacement they describe as "cleaner, leaner and faster - when we get it to work", and the whole cycle begins anew.
When I click on "Mark All Forums Read", why can't I simply get all forums marked read? Is that too much to ask?
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #168,847
8/12/04 4:03:19 AM
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IIRC there were quite a few 'Oops! Damn!' posts
regarding Mark All Forums Read. ie: Holy Crap, I accidentally pressed it, now I have no idea where I'm up to, Scott can you please please do some kind of 'Are you sure?' thing on this?
So he did.
Feature request, not feature creep.
I still maintain this is the best forum software in the world for the price.
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
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Post #168,850
8/12/04 4:16:18 AM
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..and this explains why most software sucks
People have no taste, even the ones who should.
It's a patently ridiculous feature.
-drl
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Post #168,858
8/12/04 8:48:58 AM
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"patently ridiculous"
Apparently not, since two people have whined about it (you and Andrew), one person politely informed me he liked it the other way (and I told him I'd work through it, thanks Robert), and a LOT of people have told me they like it.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #168,849
8/12/04 4:14:35 AM
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Agreed, I hated it from nanosecond 1
It's beneath Scott's powers.
-drl
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Post #168,851
8/12/04 5:46:47 AM
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Hello and welcome to IWhingeThey
Sheesh, if that's the worst of your troubles then everything else must be extra peachy, and that's wonderful to hear!
Otherwise, just enlist yourself in some kind of 12-step 'Suffering the unbearable imposition of having to endure a whole one (count 'em!) extra painfully arduous mouseclick' program, take a deep breath, and learn to cope.
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
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Post #168,852
8/12/04 6:08:29 AM
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Re: Hello and welcome to IWhingeThey
No taste. QED.
Either you care, or you don't. I care. You don't.
It's not a matter of function directly - it's a matter of aesthetics and good judgment. It's all the more perplexing given the brilliance of the author.
Of course I'm totally used to this in physics, where the ugliest, most ridiculous propositions are taken seriously. That doesn't make it any easier to understand why the most brilliant people fall into the most obvious errors. In the present case, the "feature" is so instantly hideous that it amazes me ANYONE even wanted such a thing. And then it was actually implemented!
The smart people have a certain responsibility to hone their judgment. It doesn't come for free - or does it?
-drl
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Post #168,853
8/12/04 7:02:36 AM
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Forgive me Sir, I forgot I was one of the stupid. I bow,etc.
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
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Post #168,854
8/12/04 7:03:57 AM
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You like Windows 95.
STFU about having no taste.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #168,885
8/12/04 11:02:29 AM
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pwned.
WANTED: Precognitive Telepath for adventuring Partnership. You know where to apply.
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Post #168,934
8/12/04 3:14:18 PM
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Years ago
You were right about Windows 2000, best of a sorry lot.
I had valid reasons for liking Windows 95 in the old days. Windows NT was a disaster, Windows 98.1 was worse. I admired the skill involved in maintaining backward compatibility with a large body of software written for the sorriest OS ever. In contrast there was no skill at all exhibited in Windows NT.
All in all, OS/2 was the best PC OS ever, in pure tech terms - given the limitations of the target platform.
-drl
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Post #168,943
8/12/04 3:27:36 PM
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You Talk Toss.
You're wittering on about The Best OS For The Platform, and VMS doesn't even cross your radar.
Sigh.
Stick to the physics.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #168,944
8/12/04 3:29:20 PM
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Re: You Talk Toss.
Doens't run on PCs, P. Otherwise I'd agree, for outright trouble-freeness.
-drl
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Post #168,947
8/12/04 3:32:19 PM
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OS/2's CONFIG.SYS gives the lie to that.
Big pile of crufty wank. And the interface is arse. And there's no apps. And it's dead.
But other than that, it's PERFICK.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #168,952
8/12/04 3:41:24 PM
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Re: OS/2's CONFIG.SYS gives the lie to that.
At any given time it would have been easy to make a decent-looking interface, and the mechanics of the existing one were infinitely better than Windows. But it's the kernel that was the real gem - hand-crafted x86 assembler. An amazing tech feat.
What was wrong with CONFIG.SYS other than length?
-drl
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Post #168,973
8/12/04 5:02:46 PM
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If it was easy, why didn't IBM bother to do so?
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #169,460
8/16/04 9:18:26 AM
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Graphical CONFIG.SYS Editor
Back in my OS/2 days I wrote one. It only got to be about 60% done. Figuring out the container control was the toughest part and even then I still wasn't 100% on it. Most of the statements in CONFIG.SYS had a dialog box control in a tabbed window I think. Pretty slick. Anything it didn't recognize got relegated to an plain ol' edit box.
But it's days as a commercial desktop OS are long gone...
*sigh* It was great at the time to do some real multitasking on my 386SX-16/8MB (when 8MB was A LOT of memory) and later P90/16MB (that was still a lot of memory too.) Aside from some rough spots the interface was good at the time. I was really looking forward to OS/2-PPC... :-(
lister
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Post #168,954
8/12/04 3:43:16 PM
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Interface is beautiful, easy to use, and fast.
I'm neutral about config.sys -
but how many apps does VMS have, compared to OS/2?
How DEAD is OS/2 compared to VMS? In terms of hardware support? User base?
Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
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Post #168,971
8/12/04 5:00:31 PM
8/12/04 5:00:52 PM
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OS/2 is dead. Deader n' disco. Gone the way of the platform
shoe.
VMS is guaranteed support from HP through 2015. Lots of apps, although web browsers and office suites aren't really among them. That said, Moz is default browser :)
Runs on VAX, Alpha, and Itanium. Has been 64-bit clean for 15 years.
Runs Oracle. Scales like a scaly thing. Never falls over. Multi-user, multi-cpu, multi-computer. Manageable out the wazoo.
VMS is a billion-dollar business for HP.
OS/2's interface isn't beautiful. No. Sorry, it isn't. It's ugly. 1994-ugly. Scoop-my-eyes-out-with-a-spoon ugly. Even CDE is less revolting than [link|http://www.ecomstation.com/gallery/gal/eComStation_1.0/sample_desktop_screenshots/ecs2.jpg|this].
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
Edited by pwhysall
Aug. 12, 2004, 05:00:52 PM EDT
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Post #168,974
8/12/04 5:03:34 PM
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ICLRPD
>>>>>>>>
Scales like a scaly thing
<<<<<<<<
--
"...was poorly, lugubrious and intoxicated."
-- Patrick O'Brian, "Master and Commander"
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Post #169,024
8/12/04 8:30:02 PM
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Not as long at there are mainframes
There is a console laptop connected to every mainframe.
Running OS/2.
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Post #169,153
8/13/04 10:09:27 AM
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I disagree
'Course, I sell it for part of my living, so perhaps I'm biased. Generally sales have been pretty good; they compare favourably with some estimates made in the past by companies that were formerly active in the OS/2 marketplace.
Finally, if you go perusing the various screenshots of the desktop available at ecomstation.com, you'll find that some are more pleasing than others, as they are user submitted and there's no accounting for taste as they say. On the technological front wrt visual appeal, I'd point out that the latest version includes the latest version of FreeType, and while not all of the system uses it yet, work is progressing on extending the new font engine to more parts of the system.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #169,280
8/13/04 11:51:39 PM
8/13/04 11:52:52 PM
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You're wrestling with a pig, Jack.
Since he doesn't use it, it's shit. Don't you understand that by now? ;-)
And, yes Peter, I'm STILL using it.
Edited by n3jja
Aug. 13, 2004, 11:52:52 PM EDT
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Post #169,284
8/14/04 1:02:07 AM
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I'm still running an old Acorn box with RISCOS.
Doesn't mean it isn't dead.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #169,310
8/14/04 9:40:14 AM
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*YAWN*
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Post #169,311
8/14/04 10:01:47 AM
8/14/04 10:02:33 AM
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YHBT. YHL. HAND.
Although, to be fair, I should point out that Amiga users are even easier to tweak than OS/2 users :)
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
Edited by pwhysall
Aug. 14, 2004, 10:02:33 AM EDT
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Post #169,324
8/14/04 11:39:10 AM
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Oi! Lay off! How dare you! Amiga is...oh, heh, you're right!
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
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Post #169,341
8/14/04 6:55:51 PM
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WordStar 7 on CP/M on Otrona: FOREVER!____bloody heathens
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Post #169,345
8/14/04 7:19:10 PM
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forpro on fortunes, multiuser done right
"delayed incessantly by people whose prevalent qualification was an excess of free-time" Philip Atkinson
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #169,348
8/14/04 7:46:21 PM
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GEOS on C64 43v4R!
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Post #169,225
8/13/04 4:22:35 PM
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Are not (were not?) most ATMs OS/2 -- re obv stability.
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Post #169,233
8/13/04 4:34:47 PM
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The Diebold ATMs were . Now NT :-(
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Post #169,253
8/13/04 7:01:29 PM
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Not anymore
I've forgotten whether it was NCR or Dibold who shifted to Windows first, but I think they're both on Windows now for new ATMs. To their credit it wasn't their doing - bank managers insisted on Windows so they could "integrate" the ATM's with their other Windows systems.
Next time you see a "fuck you bagel" message on your ATM screen you'll know it's working hard as a Netsky or MyDoom spam relay and really doesn't have time to dispense any money for you. Please come back next week and try again. It's OK, all your money is in the Ukraine anyway.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #169,263
8/13/04 8:19:19 PM
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ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #169262 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=169262|ICLRPD]
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Post #169,276
8/13/04 11:02:06 PM
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Were.
I watched an ATM bluescreen and reboot into NT 4 Workstation only the other week.
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #168,856
8/12/04 8:25:50 AM
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Maybe request a check box in Edit Preferences? :-p
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Post #168,857
8/12/04 8:46:14 AM
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Re: Why am I bothered with this . . .
1) Whine. 2) This software is on its last legs anyway, so I'm not inclined to spend a lot of time on it any longer. 3) The "mark read until" feature is more useful than the "mark all read" feature. 4) *Lots* of people complained about the one-click oh-crap I-didn't-really-want-to-do-that nature of "mark all read". It's not "Windows software" now. was a bad design in the first place. 5) This was the quickest way add 3 and fix 4. 6) I'm much more inclined to listen to things like "this sucks, here's a better idea" than "this sucks, *whine*". Get the hint? I know programmers can't leave something that works alone I call bullshit on this one. Some things should be improved. Other things I do leave alone. I also occasionally try things out to see how they float. This is one of those things that stuck because a lot more people like the new way than the old way. Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #168,866
8/12/04 9:41:15 AM
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Keep up the good work Scott
I, for one, appreciate the efforts you have invested in this forum.
While I understand Andrew's complaint, and I agree with him, I too, have hit the Mark All Forum Read button by mistake and am willing to "suffer" with the confirmation instead of trying to figure out what I marked read by mistake.
I also like the ability to "hide" forums that I never read with the "Mark Read Until" feature. Best thing ever. Of course imnsho.
Carry on...
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail ... but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
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Post #168,935
8/12/04 3:17:50 PM
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No one admires his efforts and skill more than I do
I can't understand how he could build a perfect UI for a forum and then kludge it that way. It's like a Rembrandt with a stick figure in the corner.
Of course as a programmer I doubt Scott has many equals. I imagine all the people who built Windows NT were individually great programmers. So how did the collective effort turn out so badly?
One word, committees. The best software is usually the creation of one or two people without demands other than their own desire to solve the problem.
-drl
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Post #168,887
8/12/04 11:18:30 AM
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Agreed
And I'm typically a whiner.
Irrevocable actions that cause a lot of things to change that are used by a variety of people should have an "Are you sure?" by default. If you wanted to add a user specific bypass, fine. If not, don't.
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Post #168,939
8/12/04 3:20:16 PM
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Far better solution
..would have been a confirmation popup, or a rollback to the previous state, given the testiness over popups. The latter idea is probably the "correct" way to do it.
See the UI Hall of Shame for more examples of going astray with user reqs.
-drl
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Post #168,965
8/12/04 4:36:16 PM
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Re: Far better solution
You're pretty free with scheduling my time. A rollback? Screw that. The current hack took 5 minutes, removed the problem a lot of users were having, and added significantly useful functionality.
This is a PROTOTYPE.
It isn't the final PRODUCT.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #168,972
8/12/04 5:01:32 PM
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FFF.
AKA "Patches accepted".
Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
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Post #169,457
8/16/04 7:37:31 AM
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... which is why I rarely complain about a feature. :-)
Unless I have a constructicve suggestion.
Wade.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
| |
Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #169,023
8/12/04 8:27:16 PM
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Almost what I said!
Rollback? Screw you!
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Post #168,890
8/12/04 12:06:23 PM
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see: [post://168889] for suggestion.
[link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=168889|Post #168889]
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows]
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Post #168,929
8/12/04 2:59:07 PM
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Geez, don't I get to bitch a little now and then?
The reason I didn't think up suggestions is I really don't expect anything to be done about it, since I'm aware others have praised this feature. The bitch was just to influence future decisions.
On the other hand I have to wait for the new screen to appear instead of just going on to wherever I intend to go to, and the delay is long enough that every once in a while I notice there's a new post - but my finger is already executing the "mark all" stroke so it gets marked as read too.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #168,966
8/12/04 4:39:13 PM
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You *and* Ross set me off.
I'm not a big fan of "this sucks, fix it" complaints. Either give me constructive criticism, or at least admit that it's a reasonable hack given the amount of time I had to spend on it vs. the usability it added for the majority of users.
Bitches don't influence future decisions. Polite requests or "votes", preferably with constructive suggestions, do influence future decisions.
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #168,977
8/12/04 5:10:29 PM
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Well, I certainly apologize for the offense . .
. . it wasn't intended to be taken at all seriously. I will be more careful in the future.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #168,980
8/12/04 5:14:44 PM
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Re: Well, I certainly apologize for the offense . .
I generally take complaints about the software here pretty seriously.... ;-)
Regards,
-scott anderson
"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
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Post #168,988
8/12/04 5:26:21 PM
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It's a good thing he didn't complain about the dirty knife.
[link|http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode03.htm#5|MPFC] reference of course.
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Post #169,092
8/12/04 11:02:50 PM
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Re: You *and* Ross set me off.
I believe brilliant people...
-drl
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Post #168,992
8/12/04 5:38:24 PM
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I'm just curious
I don't see a lot different, other than once in awhile if I choose not to read a forum, and mark it read instead, it kicks me to that page with all those forums listed and the mark all read. Is that the "really mark all read" part? I only get it every now and then, if it is. :)
I'm very happy with the way the software works.
Nightowl >8#
"A determined soul will do more with a rusty monkey wrench than a loafer will accomplish with all the tools in a machine shop." -- Robert Hughes, Australian Art Critic, Writer
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Post #168,889
8/12/04 12:03:30 PM
8/12/04 12:13:33 PM
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Personally... (edited)
As with all thing, there should be an option for it, err preference.
[ ] enable Real "Mark Forums Read"
or
[ ] Make sure I am not an "MFR" ID10T
or
[ ] "Dammit, why the Hell is Chess back again?" Prevention.
or
[ ] Keep me from shooting myself in the foot
or
[ ] Enable "work productivity gains" link
[ ] Enable link name change to "Get back to work you slacker!"
-- [link|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net|greg], [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ iwetheyNo matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp|source]Here is an example: [link|http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/gm001-ie/|Executing arbitrary commands without Active Scripting or ActiveX when using Windows] P.S. Box that was GREAT! I added it.
Edited by folkert
Aug. 12, 2004, 12:13:33 PM EDT
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Post #168,891
8/12/04 12:09:16 PM
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I would like to get some productivity numbers
new feature stops error of mark all read. Without this feature how much worked productivity was gained by inadvertantly marking all read.
thanx,
bill
"delayed incessantly by people whose prevalent qualification was an excess of free-time" Philip Atkinson
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #169,014
8/12/04 6:53:22 PM
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Did I mention? (new thread)
Created as new thread #169013 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=169013|Did I mention?]
IWETHEY's Terrible Horde of Epenthetic Yammerers.
Main Entry: epen\ufffdthe\ufffdsis
Pronunciation: i-'pen(t)-th&-s&s, e-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural epen\ufffdthe\ufffdses
/-"sEz/
Etymology: Late Latin, from Greek, from
epentithenai to insert a letter, from epi- +
entithenai to put in, from en- + tithenai
to put -- more at DO
Date: 1543
: the insertion or development of a sound
or letter in the body of a word (as &\\ in
\\'a-th&-"lEt\\ athlete)
- ep\ufffden\ufffdthet\ufffdic /"e-p&n-'the-tik/
adjective
|
