That was my point

Post #10,119 by Fearless Freep 9/21/01 1:52:03 PM Reply	That was my point Oops, sorry, those weren't terrorist attacks, they were "covert operations, secret even in success". One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Difficult to get everyone to agree on who 'all terrorists' are Has everyone but the 12% who didn't think he made a compelling case forgotten that we put these guys in power back when we were fighting the "Evil Empire"? Read the other post above; we didn't put the Taliban in power, that was a Saudi/Pakistani back door deal. (However, we did seem to allow it once we found out) Jay O'Connor "Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
Post #10,137 by screamer 9/21/01 4:25:48 PM Reply	NO! You write: "Read the other post above; we didn't put the Taliban in power, that was a Saudi/Pakistani back door deal. (However, we did seem to allow it once we found out)" What do you mean "allow". Do you mean we didn't send troops in right away? As far as I can tell, only three countries acknowledged the legitamicy of the Taliban government... Saudi Arabia, (either United Arab Emirates or Iraq) and Pakistan. We have consistently refused to acknowledge them in the UN or any other "REAL" government. There are two sides to every story, but flying commercial civilian jets into civilian office buildings defies any sane defense. The Palestinians have a "just" complaint, the Taliban are just using them and any other legitimate cause to fulfill their prepubescent dreams of world domination. They are full of shit and don't deserve rational discourse. They are the terrorists. They are in Syria, they are in Egypt, they are in Saudi Arabia, and they are in Afghanistan. They are not, however the general population of any of these countries. I posted a good link in the Religion forum if you would like to know more about the Taliban. A long time ago (think the Middle Ages), the refugees from medieval Europe that founded this country separated church from state to keep just this kind of fascism (and the fascism of the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition or Hitler's Nazi Germany) from happening here. The Taliban are fascist and oppress their own people. Those that in any way try to defend the absolute cowardice of the folks who did these bombings are either in denial about what actually happened or are simply full of shit. In other words, to call these subhuman cowards "freedom fighters" is an insult to fighters and freedom. If someone flies a commercial plane into the World Trade Center or the Pentagon or American Embassies in African (ala you may be a redneck), they are most probably f*&king terrorists... OK. Just a few thoughts, Screamer "Putting the fun back into funatic"
Post #10,138 by Fearless Freep 9/21/01 4:37:32 PM Reply	NO! What do you mean "allow". I mean "looked the other way when we could've taken them out", as some were recommending we should do. The 'other post' I referred to is [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=10109\| here] which links to an article [link\|http://www.politicsol.com/guest-commentaries/2001-09-18.html\|here] which makes the point that For years, I begged the previous administration, our government, to support those resisting the Taliban regime, to support the former King Zahir Shah, and to let him head an interim government until a more democratic process could be put in place. This was an alternative we had. Instead, the only response that I got from the previous administration was stonewalling, stonewalling that and stonewalling my request to find out what the government's real policies were. In other words, to call these subhuman cowards "freedom fighters" I didn't call the Taliban freedom fighters,; my point was that there are other groups in the world (IRA? Basque Seperatists in Spain?) who some one consider 'terrorists' and others would consider not. Jay O'Connor "Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
Post #10,144 by screamer 9/21/01 5:22:51 PM Reply	Thanks for the clarification... I jumped into this discussion without checking the other links. Understood now. Sorry for the noise. I understand the need to want to try to understand the "why's" of this tragedy, but I don't think fascism can be intellectualized. I think I was reacting more to the post you were responding to. Not that I disagree that many of these monsters were "our" creation, that also means that these monsters are our responsibility. I understand that there are many "tweeners" out there... I.E. "countries that harbor terrorists"... by that broad definition, we would have to attack ourselves, because we harbored some of the pilots for years before September 11. I honestly believe that our government is targeting known terrorists organizations right now... Ones they have known about for years but feared to do anything about them because of the potential for negative world opinion. They now have carte blanche to take care of business as they see fit. I expect that our leaders will act brutally, swiftly, and very openly... This retaliation is to serve as a deterrent to future "wannabe" terrorists or any countries that would harbor them in the way that the Taliban are permitting Bin Laden. That is just my interpretation... Just a few thoughts, Screamer "Putting the fun back into funatic"
Post #10,139 by Simon_Jester 9/21/01 4:39:49 PM Reply	wait a minute.. There are two sides to every story, but flying commercial civilian jets into civilian office buildings defies any sane defense. The Palestinians have a "just" complaint, the Taliban are just using them and any other legitimate cause to fulfill their prepubescent dreams of world domination. The Taliban have dreams of prepubescent world domination?
Post #10,147 by screamer 9/21/01 5:34:44 PM Reply	Well, I took the liberty of implying that they were SANE. If they are not, they are merely committing mass suicide for themselves and the fanatics that may follow. If they were sane, my reasoning goes something like this. The Afghanistani rebels who "whooped" the big bad super power - the former Soviet Union - actually believe that they were responsible for the fall of communism. A preposterous notion for anyone who knows anything at all about the former Soviet Union... but let's just say that these folks (war torn, broke, illiterate, with no televisions, radios, easiely manipulated, etc...) believe this is true, because they are told this by their government... They have this notion that if they goad the "great satan" into war by blowing up symbols of their financial and military power (and probably the Pittsburgh plane was headed for the Capitol or White House), that they can rally the entire Muslim nations behind their "Jihad" (again, a foolish notion - millitarily, all of the Islamic countries combined pose little to no threat to a determined NATO, let alone atomic/neutron bomb if too many soldiers showed up)... No, I have to think that these fundamentalists truly believe that they are truly representing Islam and that the "others" will be enlightened and join in... Or else, they really are just suicidal maniacs... Just a few thoughts, Screamer "Putting the fun back into funatic"
Post #10,203 by mmoffitt 9/22/01 11:21:21 AM Reply	I guess the Taliban didn't benefit from the... power vacuum we created, right? Geez, Mikem I wish I had tunnel vision. I'd be such a better American.

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