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New you wernt on the board at the time so
Cool rehash ad nausium!
Name a scenario during the election what would have happened if the USCC had stayed out of it where Bush would not be president.
Keep in mind that the Florida legislature was ready to convene and using their constitutional authority to name electors if the Florida Supreme Court tried to push Gore over.
Keep in mind also that any challenge of those electors would have to pass a majority of
republican house and senate in DC.
Keep also in mind the contitutional method of choosing a president if the election is thrown to the house, the republican house selects and sends the names for president to the senate.
Go ahead, show me any constitutional way that Bush would not be sitting as president. take your time.
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
\ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
New Gore asks for statewide recount before deadline. >:-)
That's about the only way he could have won. And that assumes he would have come out on top on such a recount - something I don't think was a foregone conclusion.

The FL election was within the margin of error. At that point, the FL legislative machinery kicked in. Since the Republicans were in control of the FL legislature, there was no way for Gore to win.

But, as you say, we've been through all this before. rcareaga might want to wander through [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=7972|#7972] and [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=17834|#17834] and similar threads. The handy "Site Search" function is good for digging up things like this.

Cheers,
Scott.
New They did machine recounts in all areas
within the statistical tie. It was the hand recounts on only 3 democratic counties that were requested by the Gore campaign. It also could not have been completed before deadline. Remember West Palm missed the deadline due to thanksgiving and the new numbers were rejected (and didnt help all that much)
thanx,
bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
\ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
New I'd forgotten all of the intricate interconnections. Thanks.
New There were other machinations - books coming.
DeLay (it is said he was the instigator) sent in the Goon Squad to pound on walls and frustrate the manual recount --> thus providing delays --> thus excuse for USSC to say, "see? it's broke". Gore contributed to the scam by asking for Too Little then bowed out with more style than a whole posse of W's could ever have summoned (even reading his speech).

I believe we shall see some multi-volume books appearing on the (now) careful reanalysis of the means by which the FL AG, brother Jeb et al -- caused the roadblocks preventing lo-income folks reaching polls. Too much of those events to even Imagine - they were mere idiot-fuckups.

I've seen excerpts over past few months of some of the items pieced together; just will not fucking bookmark every utterance: I'm waiting for the books. Too late as they must be - they will prove a better warning than all the doggerel we've already waded through. For those who read.

You didn't think this would all go away with an All-in-One slogan did you? IMO this was a coup d'etat but without actual guns & fatigues needed.



Ashton
New Re: Gore asks for statewide recount before deadline. >:-)
But I was asked to name a scenario. I can name the Scenario of the Better-Designed Butterfly Ballots. I can name the scenario of the Florida State Troopers Refusing to Conduct Those Roadblocks, or the Florida Registrar Not Disqualifying Eligible Voters for Spurious Felony Convictions. I can imagine the scenario of the Rent-a-Mob Crowds Not Storming the Count in Dade County. I can even imagine an electorate not packed with individuals as witless as would be required to acquiesce to the naked theft of that election--but no, I can't quite manage this last.

But how do you imagine that the illegitimate George Bush junta is not the gravest threat this republic has ever faced (Lincoln, Palmer raids, Manzanar) to the tattered remnants of its civil liberties?

cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
New No problem, lets take a few of those
|I can name the Scenario of the Better-Designed Butterfly Ballots
designed by the democratic machine in west palm, approved by local democratic party and repo, approved by tallahassee. That was sheer fsckup not republican design. The utter stupidity of democratic controlled county election boards cost gore the election. I have never said otherwise.

|I can name the scenario of the Florida State Troopers Refusing to Conduct Those |Roadblocks
That would be hillsborough county which is solidly republican, if true would not have mattered in the precinct by precint voting. I know tampa very well, where would you put a roadblock to stop black voters. On florida or nebraska avenues? didnt happen there and thats where the black folks congregate.

| or the Florida Registrar Not Disqualifying Eligible Voters for Spurious Felony |Convictions
no question that did happen due to underfunding the contract. The people on the contract protested that not matching up Social with DOB and Names would result in errors, the thing was so full of errors the democratic counties refused to use the list. Broward, West Palm and Dade.

|I can imagine the scenario of the Rent-a-Mob Crowds Not Storming the Count in Dade |County
why were the rent a repo protesting? They were protesting that the next precinct to be counted was cuban primarily. They are heavy repos since kennedy. The counters wanted to do the counting out of site of anyone but the democratic board. Once they saw that wasnt going to fly they quit counting because more Bush votes would have shown up. Gore is not the president because of the Democrats Elected to run Elections in West Palm Beach Period. They got screwed but they screwed themselves. I lived there watched the whole thing live. Didnt vote because I didnt trust Bush and when he invited Cheney on board I refused to vote for him. I was going to hold my nose and vote Gore but he picked Lieberman which made me a non voter.

|But how do you imagine that the illegitimate George Bush junta is not the gravest |threat this republic has ever faced (Lincoln, Palmer raids, Manzanar) to the |tattered remnants of its civil liberties?

I dont and if you follow some of the threads you will see that I think the threat to liberty is extremely high since reconstruction. I nether trust nor support this admin.
thanx,
bill





will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
\ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
New Bzzzzt. Sorry, try again.
Even though I used the word thief, you didn't ask to prove it was stolen. you asserted-
There is no scenario you can name that does not end up with shrub sitting right where he is.

He named a few. The first re butterfly ballots; scenario named? Yep. Refuted? No. Enough by itself to turn the election? No. Instigated by Republicans? No.
See, you *could* have refuted it. Next. On the roadblocks, you say-
That would be hillsborough county which is solidly republican, if true would not have mattered in the precinct by precint voting. I know tampa very well, where would you put a roadblock to stop black voters. On florida or nebraska avenues? didnt happen there and thats where the black folks congregate.
Funny, I thought Tallahassee was in Leon County.
Florida Attorney General Robert A. Butterworth summarized his position on the use of law enforcement checkpoints on Election Day:

What we do know is that a checkpoint on that date, Election Day, was absolutely not necessary for law enforcement purposes and similar checkpoints should never again be implemented on Election Day . . . No law enforcement barriers should be placed on Florida\ufffds roadways when people are going to and from voting.[84]

Regardless of the motivation for the Florida Highway Patrol\ufffds actions on Election Day, it appears that a number of voters perceived, at minimum, that they were negatively affected by the proximity of law enforcement officers to the precincts around Tallahassee.
One [link|http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/vote2000/report/ch2.htm|source]
Regarding the voter rolls being scrubbed of "felons", you say-
the thing was so full of errors the democratic counties refused to use the list. Broward, West Palm and Dade.
Not even close to a refutation.
In the 10 counties contacted by Salon, use of the central voter file seemed to vary wildly. Some found the list too unreliable and didn't use it at all. But most counties appear to have used the file as a resource to purge names from their voter rolls, with some counties making little -- or no -- effort at all to alert the "purged" voters. Counties that did their best to vet the file discovered a high level of errors, with as many as 15 percent of names incorrectly identified as felons.
<snip>
But Palm Beach and Duval weren't the only counties to dump the list after questioning its accuracy. Madison County's elections supervisor, Linda Howell, had a peculiarly personal reason for distrusting the central voter file: She had received a letter saying that since she had committed a felony, she would not be allowed to vote.

Howell, who said she has never committed a felony, said the letter she received in March shook her faith in the process. "It really is a mess," she said.
<snip>
Hillsborough County's elections supervisor, Pam Iorio, tried to make sure that that the bugs in the system didn't keep anyone from voting. All 3,258 county residents who were identified as possible felons on the central voter file sent by the state in June were sent a certified letter informing them that their voting rights were in jeopardy. Of that number, 551 appealed their status, and 245 of those appeals were successful. Some had been convicted of a misdemeanor and not a felony, others were felons who had had their rights restored and others were simply cases of mistaken identity.

An additional 279 were not close matches with names on the county's own voter rolls and were not notified. Of the 3,258 names on the original list, therefore, the county concluded that more than 15 percent were in error. If that ratio held statewide, no fewer than 7,000 voters were incorrectly targeted for removal from voting rosters.
One [link|http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/12/04/voter_file/print.html|source ]
On the Republican "rent a riot",
why were the rent a repo protesting? They were protesting that the next precinct to be counted was cuban primarily. They are heavy repos since kennedy. The counters wanted to do the counting out of site of anyone but the democratic board.
Just a couple errors here. They were protested because they were told to do so. Out of sight? That means no press/observers, doesn't it?
Wednesday's upheaval came suddenly and unexpectedly. With the Sunday deadline mandated by the Florida State Supreme Court fast approaching, the three-person canvassing board decided to scrap a total recount and tally only contested ballots. The board also announced it would move its operation to a smaller room closer to the computerized ballot-scanning machines in order to speed up the count. Despite the fact that observers and pool media could still be admitted, the GOP's Miami team, which had been decrying possible corruption in the count all along as Gore picked up another 157 votes, decided it was time to act.

On hearing of the decision to move the vote tally, Sweeney uttered a three-word order to his troops: "Shut it down." Those words were reported by Paul Gigot, who was in the room with GOP operatives, in his Wall Street Journal column Friday.

Within minutes, some two dozen GOP recount observers and other Bush supporters had begun pounding on the doors and windows of the county elections tallying room on the 19th floor of the building. They demanded to be admitted and chanted, "Stop the count. Stop the fraud." Television cameras showed the protesters trying to force their way into the room.

According to Gigot, who was with Republican leaders at the protest, the GOP forces also threatened to unleash the vociferous Cuban-American community on the recount workers. "One thousand local Cuban Republicans were on the way," they said. But they never seemed to materialize.

"There were two or three loud Cubans but most of the people I talked to were white, mostly men, from Oklahoma, Texas, mostly Southern states," says Sunday Times correspondent Rhodes. "They were talking on cellphones, probably to people nearby, telling them to get in there right away and bring as many people as they could."

One of the main targets of the demonstrators was Democratic County Chairman Joe Geller. Geller, who had gone to the elections office to request an unused sample ballot, was mobbed by the protesters as he left those offices. They accused him of stealing a ballot.

"I requested it, which I'm entitled to do," says Geller. "It was clearly marked 'sample ballot for use by Democratic Party.' The whole transaction was out in the open and all very calmly done. This Republican observer -- a woman with blond hair, a suit and clipboard -- was watching the whole thing. But the moment I started to walk away, she sicced the crowd on me. She said I was stealing a ballot and they surrounded me. It was all orchestrated," he alleges
One [link|http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/28/miami/print.html|source]
How many lives per gallon?
--Sign outside of various churches
New not wrong sorry bzzt
The votes on the butterfly ballot included 3 thousand for pat buchannon which were from an area that has voted 98% democratic in past elections. 3k votes would have handed the victory to Gore, wasnt the final total <1k for bush?

I thought the allegation of roadblocks was for Hillsborough county so withdraw that assertion

With the Sunday deadline mandated by the Florida State Supreme Court fast approaching, the three-person canvassing board decided to scrap a total recount and tally only contested ballots
proves my assertion, they were not going to count the cuban precincts and were going to move to a restricted(smaller) area,

Now all done and said, with the exception of the democratic butterfly ballot which if done correctly would have led to a Gore victory, there is no other way for Gore to have won.
thanx,
bill


will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]

questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
\ufffdOmni Gaul Delenda est!\ufffd Ceasar
New Better luck next time.
Contesting my assertion that rcareaga had fulfilled his obligation to name a scenario where Bush didn't win, Box says I am wrong but shows rcareaga did, in fact, do exactly that. Several times.

My gift of a refutation about the butterfly ballots was proven to be in error.

The roadblocks question is shown as plausible.

Missing the point about the reprehensible proven republican rent a riot (meant to chew up valuable time and stop the recount), Bill tries to to imply that the "solidly republican" Cuban district not getting a full recount but only of contested ballots would somehow invalidate those votes already cast and accepted. And rephrasing the assertion that the recount was going to be restricted from oversight into restricted in size isn't going to cut it.

I notice you don't address the voter rolls scrubbed of eligible voters.

Scenarios named? four out of four ain't bad.



(edit to add point about scrubbed rolls)
How many lives per gallon?
--Sign outside of various churches
Expand Edited by Silverlock Feb. 26, 2003, 11:19:12 AM EST
     Estrada Nomination Cooked - (JayMehaffey) - (24)
         Hardly - (bepatient) - (23)
             None of Bush's choices should be confirmed - (Silverlock) - (20)
                 Turnabout's fair play. - (inthane-chan) - (6)
                     do you have a link to that? I havnt heard of one - (boxley) - (5)
                         what do you mean? - (Simon_Jester) - (4)
                             thanx, looked at both, appears process is working - (boxley) - (3)
                                 Yup. - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                                     I guess that's why... - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                         Note that I said 'better'... - (inthane-chan)
                 here have a free hanky - (boxley) - (12)
                     None so blind. -NT - (Silverlock)
                     Re: here have a free hanky - (rcareaga) - (10)
                         you wernt on the board at the time so - (boxley) - (9)
                             Gore asks for statewide recount before deadline. >:-) - (Another Scott) - (8)
                                 They did machine recounts in all areas - (boxley) - (2)
                                     I'd forgotten all of the intricate interconnections. Thanks. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                     There were other machinations - books coming. - (Ashton)
                                 Re: Gore asks for statewide recount before deadline. >:-) - (rcareaga) - (4)
                                     No problem, lets take a few of those - (boxley) - (3)
                                         Bzzzzt. Sorry, try again. - (Silverlock) - (2)
                                             not wrong sorry bzzt - (boxley) - (1)
                                                 Better luck next time. - (Silverlock)
             Re: Hardly - (JayMehaffey) - (1)
                 On the other hand... - (Another Scott)

Now, new ChiaLRPD[tm]!
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