What timing

Post #65,192 by Silverlock 11/26/02 3:10:42 PM Reply	What timing Just found [link\|http://www.cnn.com/2002/EDUCATION/11/26/education.rankings.reut/index.html\|This] at CNN. A ranking by country of student achievement in literacy, math and science. Does someone (Hi Beep) want to see if there are, in fact, any parallels between achievement or lack thereof and "throwing money at the problem"? Why should we ask our military to die for cheap oil when the rest of us aren't even being asked to get better mileage? -[link\|http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=14107\|Molly Ivins]
Post #65,195 by mmoffitt 11/26/02 3:43:45 PM Reply	2/3 above us pay better. Is "increased pay" the single solution? Of course not. I just don't see us getting much better when there is such a dramatic financial penalty for teaching. There are less painful ways to accomplish significantly increasing teachers salaries than increasing taxes, however. Back in the day, school teachers were exempt from paying Federal Taxes. I'd include FICA and State taxes as well, but let them be eligible for any SS benefits. It wouldn't cost that much and it would mean a hell of an increase in take-home pay for teachers (might even bring them inline with the rest of us). Don't want to reward the "old wood"? Fine. Make these exemptions only for new teachers entering the field, then figure out some way to "merit" the others into the exemptions. It's curious to me that all these "free marketers" apparently lose faith when it comes to teaching. They know that at times when talent is tough to find, they need to increase their offerings to attract the best and brightest, but somehow they don't want that philosophy applied to teaching the next generation.
Post #65,205 by bepatient 11/26/02 4:00:47 PM Reply	I have no issue... ...with raising the pay of teachers. The only issue I have is doing so with no regard for their ability and doing so in the current system which inhibits (makes near impossible) the elimination of poor performers. Your solution is "give it to everybody regardless"...mine is give it to those that deserve it...get rid of the deadwood and make room for the talent that you want to bring in. Your view is that the only current measure we have should be eliminated. Mine is that until a better alternative can be proposed..that the current system be used to identify and support outstanding performers. Tradition has been..."just give them more money". (triple their salary) My view is >That does NOT work. The linked study supports my view. Structural changes to the system are necessary in addition to money...and without those changes...any further simple monetary investment is just waste. You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! _{Laurie Anderson} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #65,516 by mmoffitt 11/27/02 4:44:00 PM Reply	Re: "Triple their salary...That doesn't work" Exactly when did we try that?
Post #65,519 by boxley 11/27/02 4:48:12 PM Reply	Alaska from 1967 thru 1973 will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] GRAYBOAR-Strangleur Extraodinaire "Have Thumbs Will Travel" Customised Asphyxiations No Gullet Too Big, No Weasand Too small My Motto Satisfaction Garoteed, or the Chokes on Me! Eric Flint
Post #65,520 by mmoffitt 11/27/02 4:52:28 PM Reply	What were you paying them in 1966? Starting salary for 2000 was 36K, were you actually paying teachers 12K/year to start in Alaska? Or did you have massive cuts after 73? [link\|http://www.aft.org/research/survey01/tables/tableI-2.html\|Starting and average salaries by State]
Post #65,528 by boxley 11/27/02 5:20:35 PM Reply	starting salary where? in the lysd it can be from 38-47k depending on a few items and ranges to 67.9 at the top end. [link\|http://www.lksd.org/jobs/certsalary.html\|http://www.lksd.org/jobs/certsalary.html] I am looking for the data but prior to the pipleline salaries for teachers in 66 were well below 10k per year as I remember from different print sources. When the pipeline came in and a clerical worker was getting $15 dollars an hour working 12 hr shifts 7-21 days on and not much off all salaries for all public positions triple during that time period for basic government service positions. I will look further and let you know. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] GRAYBOAR-Strangleur Extraodinaire "Have Thumbs Will Travel" Customised Asphyxiations No Gullet Too Big, No Weasand Too small My Motto Satisfaction Garoteed, or the Chokes on Me! Eric Flint

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