Something else you reminded me of.

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Post #43,738 by static 6/28/02 8:39:05 AM Reply	Something else you reminded me of. And putting aside the venom for your current elected leader :-), I also recall that the same author I quoted also commented that is only in the last one to two hundred years that [what passes for] Western society has had any real alternative to theism. A thousand years ago, a state not linked to the church was unthinkable. But a shift away had begun by the time the US Constitution was first written. IMHO, Fundamentalism wouldn't be so controversial if secularism didn't exist. Wade. "Ah. One of the difficult questions."
Post #43,846 by Ashton 6/28/02 6:33:23 PM Reply	I guess that, we might find that development to be ~ a certain progress, though that word itself implies to way too many, any 'change' must be an advance. (So much for our saving ourselves from ourselves - via any ana of homilies :( Ashton
Post #44,188 by CRConrad 7/2/02 12:35:28 AM Reply	Unthinkable ~700 years ago; 1000, quite thinkable, AFAICS. The Christian church hadn't yet conquered all of Europe at the turn of the first millennium; and if the Nordic kings at that time hadn't found it politically expedient to hitch their wagons to the horse of Christianity (or any religion), the situation you seem to thinking of -- which prevailed in, say, the fourteenth century -- might have been different, too. Christian R. Conrad Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time. -- [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=42971\|Andrew Grygus]

Words fail me. - (Brandioch) - (143) - June 27, 2002, 07:24:25 PM EDT

They don't fail me - (rsf) - (4) - June 27, 2002, 07:52:01 PM EDT

I can respect their political ideology. - (Brandioch) - June 27, 2002, 08:14:27 PM EDT

The Declaration of Independence is UnConsititutional - (ChrisR) - (2) - June 28, 2002, 10:38:12 AM EDT

Good thing it was a 'Press Release' - (imric) - June 28, 2002, 10:43:54 AM EDT

We covered this elsewhere... - (jb4) - July 3, 2002, 01:40:04 PM EDT

There is no avoiding the problem. - (static) - (5) - June 27, 2002, 11:50:39 PM EDT

IIRC - originally the idea was to use 'Providence" - (Ashton) - (3) - June 28, 2002, 05:21:06 AM EDT

Something else you reminded me of. - (static) - (2) - June 28, 2002, 08:39:05 AM EDT

I guess that, we might find that development to be - (Ashton) - June 28, 2002, 06:33:23 PM EDT

Unthinkable ~700 years ago; 1000, quite thinkable, AFAICS. - (CRConrad) - July 2, 2002, 12:35:28 AM EDT

Re: There is no avoiding the problem. - (wharris2) - July 1, 2002, 05:16:22 PM EDT

CNN polls oxymoron - (SpiceWare) - (131) - June 28, 2002, 09:45:48 AM EDT

Re: CNN polls oxymoron - (bepatient) - (130) - June 28, 2002, 10:18:21 AM EDT

So you'd support a bill for "One nation, under Allah"? - (Brandioch) - (41) - June 28, 2002, 10:46:20 AM EDT

Re: So you'd support a bill for "One nation, under Allah"? - (bepatient) - (40) - June 28, 2002, 11:50:46 AM EDT

If it doesn't matter, then why does it matter? - (Brandioch) - (39) - June 28, 2002, 12:52:15 PM EDT

ahh... - (bepatient) - (38) - June 28, 2002, 01:13:33 PM EDT

You can't just say it, can you? "God" == "Allah" - (Brandioch) - (37) - June 28, 2002, 01:23:56 PM EDT

That statement is false. - (imric) - (32) - June 28, 2002, 01:32:18 PM EDT

"God" != "god" - (Brandioch) - (31) - June 28, 2002, 01:52:12 PM EDT

Uh. Vishnu is a God. - (imric) - (30) - June 28, 2002, 01:55:15 PM EDT

"a God". Pay careful attention to the "a" there. - (Brandioch) - (29) - June 28, 2002, 02:06:15 PM EDT

So what? - (imric) - (28) - June 28, 2002, 02:23:18 PM EDT

You missed it. - (Brandioch) - (27) - June 28, 2002, 02:39:41 PM EDT

Have you asked a Muslim this? - (imric) - (26) - June 28, 2002, 02:56:34 PM EDT

Allah is to Muslims as __________ is to Christians. - (Brandioch) - (25) - June 28, 2002, 03:18:58 PM EDT

Insist that God is a name all you want. - (imric) - (8) - June 28, 2002, 04:31:30 PM EDT

To quote you "look in the Bible". - (Brandioch) - (6) - June 28, 2002, 04:59:35 PM EDT

Nope. Wrong again. - (imric) - (5) - June 28, 2002, 05:01:21 PM EDT

Look up "circular reference". - (Brandioch) - (4) - June 28, 2002, 05:39:17 PM EDT

Confusing levels of reference - (imric) - (3) - June 28, 2002, 05:45:21 PM EDT

Why am I wrong? Because the Bible says so. - (Brandioch) - (2) - June 28, 2002, 05:56:27 PM EDT

Oh, I can prove you wrong - (imric) - (1) - June 28, 2002, 06:13:43 PM EDT

How did it get printed if it's a sin to print it? - (Brandioch) - June 28, 2002, 07:19:48 PM EDT

If it begins with a G (not g), then yes, it IS "a name"! - (CRConrad) - July 1, 2002, 10:18:21 PM EDT

Fill in the blank - (Silverlock) - (12) - June 28, 2002, 04:13:47 PM EDT

Cool. I'll use "Tetragrammaton". - (Brandioch) - (11) - June 28, 2002, 04:51:54 PM EDT

ROFL - I suppose "Him" is His name then , too? - (imric) - (1) - June 28, 2002, 05:00:29 PM EDT

Buy yourself a dictionary. - (Brandioch) - June 28, 2002, 05:06:27 PM EDT

The picking of (imaginary) nits - (Silverlock) - (4) - June 28, 2002, 05:03:10 PM EDT

Awww, so it is dueling dictionaries then? - (Brandioch) - (3) - June 28, 2002, 05:11:09 PM EDT

The weakest link - (Silverlock) - (2) - June 28, 2002, 11:19:45 PM EDT

That's a complex question. - (Brandioch) - (1) - June 29, 2002, 12:55:52 AM EDT

Ike is irrelevent. -NT - (bepatient) - June 29, 2002, 01:03:12 AM EDT

We Pentagrammatonistas are Superior, we see that you see.. - (Ashton) - (3) - June 28, 2002, 05:18:07 PM EDT

Where do I sign up? -NT - (Silverlock) - (1) - June 28, 2002, 11:23:52 PM EDT

Many are called__but____few are chastened.. -NT - (Ashton) - June 29, 2002, 12:18:32 AM EDT

But he Heptagrammatonistas look down on you! :) - (a6l6e6x) - June 29, 2002, 04:49:30 PM EDT

As a Jew I can say that in English ... - (bluke) - (2) - July 1, 2002, 12:40:45 AM EDT

+5 Informative. :-) -NT - (static) - July 1, 2002, 01:32:00 AM EDT

:) Not just Christian. - (Brandioch) - July 1, 2002, 10:40:42 AM EDT

Cool... - (bepatient) - (3) - June 28, 2002, 01:36:46 PM EDT

Is it History or English you failed? - (Brandioch) - (2) - June 28, 2002, 02:21:15 PM EDT

Congress shall... - (ChrisR) - (1) - June 28, 2002, 02:46:51 PM EDT

We covered that in a different thread. :) - (Brandioch) - June 28, 2002, 02:59:00 PM EDT

The more I think about this, the less I understand - (Silverlock) - (82) - June 28, 2002, 10:49:46 AM EDT

It isn't unConstitutional. - (Brandioch) - (81) - June 28, 2002, 01:16:09 PM EDT

Uh huh. - (imric) - (80) - June 28, 2002, 01:30:00 PM EDT

Not irrelevent. - (Brandioch) - (78) - June 28, 2002, 01:45:29 PM EDT

Wrong. - (imric) - (77) - June 28, 2002, 01:53:59 PM EDT

Well, please violate that rule right now. - (Brandioch) - (76) - June 28, 2002, 02:02:13 PM EDT

Oh, I won't. - (imric) - (65) - June 28, 2002, 02:10:24 PM EDT

I didn't think you would. - (Brandioch) - (64) - June 28, 2002, 02:31:12 PM EDT

Now you ARE manufacturing data. - (imric) - (10) - June 28, 2002, 02:50:36 PM EDT

"I can not tell you that name for it would be a Sin!" - (Brandioch) - (9) - June 28, 2002, 03:06:02 PM EDT

I did identify it. - (imric) - (8) - June 28, 2002, 03:10:03 PM EDT

I asked you to post it. Can you understand "post it"? - (Brandioch) - (7) - June 28, 2002, 03:27:21 PM EDT

Ok. Insist on 'winning' this 'debate'. - (imric) - (6) - June 28, 2002, 04:01:09 PM EDT

How many chances do you want? - (Brandioch) - (4) - June 28, 2002, 05:46:47 PM EDT

You have read the Bible? - (imric) - (3) - June 28, 2002, 06:06:47 PM EDT

So the name of God is "Lord"? - (Brandioch) - (2) - June 28, 2002, 06:18:12 PM EDT

Note. - (imric) - (1) - June 28, 2002, 06:37:35 PM EDT

thy servant, thy hand, thy words. NOT A PRONOUN! - (Brandioch) - June 28, 2002, 07:58:14 PM EDT

So, what do you *call* Him? What letter is he filed under,.. - (CRConrad) - July 2, 2002, 12:58:29 AM EDT

I'll answer. - (static) - (52) - June 29, 2002, 04:24:15 AM EDT

Gracias - a thoughtful clarification. Finally. - (Ashton) - June 29, 2002, 04:15:21 PM EDT

I'll use this forum as my example. :) - (Brandioch) - (47) - June 29, 2002, 04:41:25 PM EDT

Maybe the thread was worth the trouble.. - (Ashton) - (46) - June 29, 2002, 05:59:26 PM EDT

Yup. - (Brandioch) - (45) - June 29, 2002, 06:50:32 PM EDT

Nah. - (imric) - (44) - June 30, 2002, 08:23:09 AM EDT

However one slices it - (Ashton) - (1) - June 30, 2002, 09:03:51 AM EDT

Yup. -NT - (imric) - June 30, 2002, 12:28:08 PM EDT

So you keep saying. - (Brandioch) - (41) - June 30, 2002, 01:21:49 PM EDT

Static posted the Chapter and verse - (bepatient) - (40) - June 30, 2002, 01:42:27 PM EDT

You just can't get enough of me. - (Brandioch) - (39) - June 30, 2002, 02:31:23 PM EDT

Its simply because I love you - (bepatient) - (22) - June 30, 2002, 04:27:40 PM EDT

The point escapes you, yet again. - (Brandioch) - (21) - June 30, 2002, 08:46:27 PM EDT

Becuase you failed... - (bepatient) - (20) - June 30, 2002, 08:50:40 PM EDT

"Straw Man" may not be invariably correct an - (Ashton) - (2) - June 30, 2002, 10:05:01 PM EDT

Disappointed - (bepatient) - (1) - June 30, 2002, 10:26:19 PM EDT

Blessed art those who expect nothing - (Ashton) - June 30, 2002, 10:57:18 PM EDT

"Research"? You are an idiot. - (Brandioch) - (11) - July 1, 2002, 01:36:53 AM EDT

... - (bepatient) - (10) - July 1, 2002, 02:01:06 AM EDT

That's post #1. - (Brandioch) - (9) - July 1, 2002, 11:01:05 AM EDT

Self-appointed... - (bepatient) - (8) - July 1, 2002, 02:54:03 PM EDT

>logic< isn't Reason - (Ashton) - (1) - July 1, 2002, 03:52:27 PM EDT

Add a debate class to that and I'm all for it. - (Brandioch) - July 1, 2002, 06:26:16 PM EDT

Let me go over the criteria AGAIN. - (Brandioch) - (5) - July 1, 2002, 06:11:39 PM EDT

Its really no effort... - (bepatient) - (4) - July 1, 2002, 06:28:54 PM EDT

Tell me why and adult would refuse to post it. - (Brandioch) - (3) - July 1, 2002, 07:48:20 PM EDT

Why are you talking about me? - (bepatient) - (2) - July 1, 2002, 10:13:45 PM EDT

NOW you're avoiding it?!? - (Brandioch) - (1) - July 1, 2002, 11:33:21 PM EDT

Whatever. - (bepatient) - July 2, 2002, 08:03:11 AM EDT

Sorry, BeeP, but you're wrong on both counts. - (CRConrad) - (4) - July 2, 2002, 01:52:26 AM EDT

Rofl - (bepatient) - (3) - July 2, 2002, 08:22:19 AM EDT

Quit the stupid laughter; it's still just not all that funny - (CRConrad) - (2) - July 2, 2002, 06:07:52 PM EDT

Certainly it is.... - (bepatient) - (1) - July 2, 2002, 06:37:33 PM EDT

Sorry about the imbalance, but... - (CRConrad) - July 2, 2002, 06:44:59 PM EDT

There is an error in your argument. - (static) - (15) - July 1, 2002, 01:25:42 AM EDT

You'll note that your reference - (Ashton) - (6) - July 1, 2002, 02:31:30 AM EDT

I had to chose something. - (static) - (5) - July 1, 2002, 02:38:42 AM EDT

You don't live over here, do you? :) - (Brandioch) - (4) - July 1, 2002, 10:55:05 AM EDT

Recent? - (ChrisR) - (1) - July 1, 2002, 11:17:43 AM EDT

In my day, people respected their elders! - (Brandioch) - July 1, 2002, 12:29:45 PM EDT

Church vs State. - (static) - (1) - July 1, 2002, 10:33:32 PM EDT

How about a diode? - (Brandioch) - July 2, 2002, 10:57:27 AM EDT

Could be. - (Brandioch) - (7) - July 1, 2002, 10:37:33 AM EDT

What? Never a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses at your door? :) -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (1) - July 1, 2002, 04:57:06 PM EDT

Not in YEARS. - (Brandioch) - July 1, 2002, 06:13:03 PM EDT

I'd like to make some distinctions. - (static) - (2) - July 1, 2002, 09:50:02 PM EDT

Agreed. - (Brandioch) - (1) - July 1, 2002, 10:32:44 PM EDT

We'll have to differ. - (static) - July 2, 2002, 02:57:17 AM EDT

Uh... "God is a four-letter word", I think. - (CRConrad) - (1) - July 2, 2002, 02:13:55 AM EDT

Mhy speling sux. - (Brandioch) - July 2, 2002, 10:58:57 AM EDT

Nice of you to agree with Brandishim's original point. - (CRConrad) - (2) - July 2, 2002, 01:23:29 AM EDT

Hello Christian. - (static) - (1) - July 3, 2002, 01:47:52 AM EDT

Point? Just the first line (never mind why). Hi yerself! :-) -NT - (CRConrad) - July 3, 2002, 02:57:40 PM EDT

God, god, and gods - (ChrisR) - (9) - June 28, 2002, 02:41:04 PM EDT

Allah is to Muslims as _________ is to Christians. - (Brandioch) - (5) - June 28, 2002, 03:13:59 PM EDT

Allah is to Arabic Speakers as God is to English speakers - (ChrisR) - (4) - June 28, 2002, 04:52:40 PM EDT

Not quite. - (Brandioch) - (3) - June 28, 2002, 05:34:28 PM EDT

The question is nonsensical because you... - (ChrisR) - (2) - June 28, 2002, 06:44:04 PM EDT

No I'm not. - (Brandioch) - (1) - June 28, 2002, 08:13:49 PM EDT

I think it's as obvious as, what is *meant* when a - (Ashton) - June 28, 2002, 09:08:28 PM EDT

"it intentionally offends those who fall outside of this - (Ashton) - June 28, 2002, 04:52:30 PM EDT

"One nation under glowing spooky stuff" -NT - (tablizer) - (1) - July 1, 2002, 12:43:38 AM EDT

Yeah... Big glowing UFOs covered in OOP-turds, you mean? :-) -NT - (CRConrad) - July 2, 2002, 02:26:08 AM EDT

Stop calling it a pronoun, please. It isn't. -NT - (CRConrad) - July 2, 2002, 12:43:16 AM EDT

I'm actually sympathetic to the guy who brought the case - (drewk) - (4) - June 28, 2002, 10:52:31 AM EDT

Yeah.. after all the etymology dancing about - - (Ashton) - (3) - June 28, 2002, 05:02:05 PM EDT

Matter of fact - (imric) - (2) - June 28, 2002, 05:41:21 PM EDT

Kinda figgered that - (Ashton) - (1) - June 28, 2002, 06:15:14 PM EDT

ObSentient LRPDism: The (LoTR) Ring Rhyme. :-) -NT - (static) - June 29, 2002, 04:27:03 AM EDT

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