Would Sanders have won against Trump?

Post #415,573 by pwhysall 11/21/16 10:25:48 AM 11/21/16 10:25:48 AM Reply	Would Sanders have won against Trump? No. Hang on, that's excessively simplistic. Allow me to clarify. Fuck no! He'd have been utterly destroyed. http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
Post #415,574 by drook 11/21/16 11:11:09 AM 11/21/16 11:11:09 AM Reply	Probably the most concise version that story can be -- Drew
Post #415,575 by Another Scott 11/21/16 11:33:39 AM 11/21/16 11:39:27 AM Reply	Kurt doesn't pull any punches. It's a good piece, thanks. I do think, though, that it's dangerous and counter-productive to blame the voters. [edit:] to elaborate... It's the candidate's responsibility to point out what's at stake and to do what s/he can to get voters to come out. It's the responsibility of the state and the legal framework to make sure the process is fair and transparent. There were lots of things going on that caused the outcome. More of Obama's voters turning out to vote would have helped, but we only have anecdotes about why that didn't happen. Blaming Stein voters, and blaming those who didn't vote, isn't the path forward. There always are (or should always be) 3rd party choices, people who don't vote, etc.... Cheers, Scott. Edited by Another Scott Nov. 21, 2016, 11:39:27 AM EST Expand All History
Post #415,577 by mmoffitt 11/21/16 1:08:18 PM 11/21/16 1:11:05 PM Reply	Establishment Media Publishes Establishment Horseshit. Film at 11. The Democratic Party can have sex with itself, and I mean that in the crudest sense. Edit: Best comment award goes to John Berry John Berry · Works at Self-Employed HRC could never win Bernie or bust or otherwise! She never polled well against Trump. She is the one who elevated Trump. Who rigged the primary. Who was in every way the worst person to ever run for the Presidency under a main party! You are the ones that refused to see her weaknesses and refused to support a massively supperior more popular option. Elections are a polularity contest but Dems's backstabbed the popular choice and instead ran their least trusted and least popular candidate ever! The DNC's plan was to elvate Trump and then give him a weakened opponent! How'd that go for ya? bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens. Edited by mmoffitt Nov. 21, 2016, 01:11:05 PM EST Expand All History
Post #415,578 by pwhysall 11/21/16 1:36:19 PM 11/21/16 1:36:19 PM Reply	Still wearing the AFBHDB, I see. Freedom for Tooting!
Post #415,580 by mmoffitt 11/21/16 2:22:16 PM 11/21/16 2:22:16 PM Reply	You think giving her 400+ delegates out of the gate didn't help her? How about those per-assigned delegates sticking with her even when their states went for Bernie? bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,582 by Another Scott 11/21/16 3:35:57 PM 11/21/16 3:35:57 PM Reply	They weren't "given" to her, she earned their support. JEB! was "inevitable" too. Funny how his support collapsed when he couldn't win votes, isn't it? Bernie lost. Cheers, Scott.
Post #415,586 by mmoffitt 11/21/16 4:41:01 PM 11/21/16 4:41:01 PM Reply	s/Bernie/We and you're right. She's all about pay-to-play, n'est ce pas? bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,587 by Another Scott 11/21/16 4:53:47 PM 11/21/16 4:53:47 PM Reply	When's Bernie going to release his tax returns? Why is Bernie part of the Democratic Leadership (in charge of "outreach" or something) if he isn't a Democrat? "I was elected as an Independent so I'm staying an Independent for now" (rough quote). Doesn't he know what the word "Independent" means? Hillary wasn't all about "pay-to-play" - she couldn't be more transparent, but if it involves a Clinton, it's never enough... (sigh) Cheers, Scott.
Post #415,589 by boxley 11/21/16 5:01:13 PM 11/21/16 5:01:13 PM Reply	"she couldn't be more transparent" email gate, from the record "they thought they could get away with it" yup, thats transparent all right always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,590 by Another Scott 11/21/16 5:24:52 PM 11/21/16 5:24:52 PM Reply	Who is "they". You know that out-of-context quotes don't mean anything. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #415,593 by mmoffitt 11/22/16 8:04:23 AM 11/22/16 8:04:23 AM Reply	Re: but if it involves a Clinton, it's never enough... And yet below you claim that my correct assertion last year that Hillary could not possibly win Indiana was a claim based upon no evidence. bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,594 by drook 11/22/16 8:07:00 AM 11/22/16 8:07:00 AM Reply	It's never enough for you and people like you That's not proof that everyone is like you. -- Drew
Post #415,595 by mmoffitt 11/22/16 8:26:10 AM 11/22/16 8:26:10 AM Reply	You mean people who can comprehend facts? I've said many, many times that most of the criticism of Hillary Rodham was completely unjustified and lacked any sort of merit. There were and are a whole host of things that she could be rightly criticized for, but that's irrelevant to the point about it being easy to see why she could not possibly win Indiana. This is the state that elected Mitch Daniels, Dan Coats and Mike Pence among other notable disasters (remember Dan Quayle?). The voters in this state almost elected a Senate candidate even after he said, "if a woman gets pregnant when she's raped, it's part of God's plan" so abortion should be illegal even in that case during a televised debate. Until I moved here in 1986, I'd never even heard of Rush Limbaugh. But in Indiana's second largest city, his "reports" were cited as fact by virtually everyone I met. The point is that between the made-up-stuff about her and her actual faults, her campaign could not possibly hope to carry Indiana. I would have thought anyone could see that. bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,596 by drook 11/22/16 9:20:56 AM 11/22/16 9:20:56 AM Reply	Not how I remember it Your position here seems to be: "Most of the criticism of Hillary was completely unjustified, but a woman has no chance to win Indiana. Here are some examples for evidence." That's pretty reasonable. In the same way, I believe much of the opposition to Obama is because he's black, but the reasons given for the opposition were many and varied, and largely false. But is that really what you've said many, many times? I seem to remember you criticizing Hillary pretty consistently. I don't recall you ever defending her. It may have happened, but the overwhelming trend of your comments has been in the other direction. Evidence? "... the criticism of Hillary Rodham ..." Her name is Hillary Clinton. It has been for more than 40 years. The only people who call her Hillary Rodham are people implying there's something wrong with her "independence". -- Drew
Post #415,598 by mmoffitt 11/22/16 11:53:09 AM 11/22/16 11:53:09 AM Reply	You could not be more wrong. The only people who call her Hillary Rodham are people implying there's something wrong with her "independence". That may be the dumbest comment I've read on this board. The ONLY reason she stopped calling herself Rodham was to placate lesser minds in Arkansas so her husband could win an election. Hell, even her own email addresses on her private server were hrodxx@clintonemail.com. It is the exact opposite to what you've written. It is the people who "call her Clinton" that are stating there is something wrong with her independence. bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,601 by drook 11/22/16 12:22:28 PM 11/22/16 12:22:28 PM Reply	Thought experiment Jane Smith marries John Thomas. Jane says she wants to be called Jane Thomas now. Some random person calls her Jane Smith anyway. That person is an asshole. Jane Smith marries John Thomas. Jane says she wants to be called Jane Smith-Thomas now. Some random person calls her Jane Smith anyway. That person is an asshole. Jane Smith marries John Thomas. Jane says she wants to be called Jane Smith still. Some random person calls her Jane Thomas. That person is an asshole. Jane Smith marries John Thomas. Jane says she wants to be called David Jones now. Some random person calls her Jane Smith anyway. That person is an asshole. Jane Smith doesn't marry anybody. Jane says she wants to be called Martha Jackson now. Some random person calls her Jane Smith anyway. That person is an asshole. See the pattern? You decide what your name is. You decide what you want to be called. Someone deciding to call you something else is making a point, and being an asshole. -- Drew
Post #415,604 by mmoffitt 11/22/16 1:20:21 PM 11/22/16 1:20:21 PM Reply	She calls herself Rodham. HTH. Toddler. bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,605 by drook 11/22/16 1:31:54 PM 11/22/16 1:35:32 PM Reply	Re: She calls herself Rodham. HTH. Toddler. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/a-short-history-of-hillary-rodham-clintons-name/418029/ By the time Hillary Clinton ran for president in 2008, she had almost entirely dropped “Rodham;” she appeared on primary ballots as “Hillary Clinton.” As in 2000, her signs read “Hillary”; her website lived at hillaryclinton.com. In discussions of the race in the media (including here) she is referred to simply as “Hillary Clinton,” “Hillary,” or “Clinton.” The super PAC supporting her was “Ready for Hillary.” Her presidential campaign now calls itself “Hillary for America,” and her logo is a simple H with an arrow. As the Times notes, “Hillary Clinton” is also the name the candidate has used in filing for the ballot this year. (As Hadas Gold notes, however, aides often refer to her as “HRC.”) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/11/19/the-fascinating-history-of-when-hillary-clinton-has-chosen-to-use-her-maiden-name/ Well, it seems that when Clinton feels that a more traditional naming pattern might be a matter of protocol or politically advantageous -- capable of helping her play down the traits for which she is most often criticized -- she is Hillary Clinton. But when Clinton is operating in the private sector or safely ensconced in a public service position where there was no risk of voter backlash, she's Hillary Rodham Clinton. Sometimes it's Hillary Rodham Clinton, sometimes it's just Hillary Clinton. Usually it's just Hillary. She never calls herself Hillary Rodham any more. [edit] Oh, and to be clear: Whether a woman chooses to take her husband's name or not is none of my business, and unless I'm an asshole I honor her choice. As a politician, she has recognized that there are assholes in the world who think they get to have an opinion, and those assholes vote. -- Drew Edited by drook Nov. 22, 2016, 01:35:32 PM EST Expand All History
Post #415,607 by mmoffitt 11/22/16 1:34:48 PM 11/22/16 1:34:48 PM Reply	So you're good with her being coerced into calling herself Clinton. Got it. bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,608 by drook 11/22/16 1:36:54 PM 11/22/16 1:36:54 PM Reply	I'm good with her deciding what she wants to be called -- Drew
Post #415,637 by rcareaga 11/23/16 10:04:49 AM 11/23/16 10:04:49 AM Reply	"being coerced into calling herself Clinton" You must be mistaken. You've been telling us all year that HRC is an unreconstructed Goldwater Girl. No Goldwater Girl would require so much as a calorie of coercion, once entered into holy matrimony, to assume her owner's name. That she did not do so at once we are obliged to assume was due to entirely to absent-mindedness rather than to any so-called "feminist" consideration, which would of course be quite inconsistent with the 1964 GOP worldview from which, as you have tirelessly reminded us these many months, she has never deviated one whit. cordially,
Post #415,639 by mmoffitt 11/23/16 10:53:12 AM 11/23/16 10:54:14 AM Reply	I actually feel a little sorrow for her in that regard. No one, not even a detractor like myself, could possibly be anything other than inspired by her undergraduate graduation speech. I see her ultimately succumbing to the pressure of reactionaries in Arkansas to stop using her maiden name as the first step in a long journey to return her to her Goldwater roots. I would have loved for her to have been our 42nd President instead of the toad to which she was and is married. But that was before she ran headlong into the owners of this country when she tried to give us universal healthcare. That, I believe, was the final nail in her undergraduate discovered progressive tendencies. She, quite simply, had those progressive tendencies beaten out of her beginning with the coerced name change and culminating in the horror show that was the big insurance, big pharma, and bankster attacks on healthcare reform that worked so well with the marching morons of this country. It was then, I believe, she decided to return to her Goldwateran roots. More is the pity. She could have been great. bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens. Edited by mmoffitt Nov. 23, 2016, 10:54:14 AM EST Expand All History
Post #415,640 by drook 11/23/16 10:57:56 AM 11/23/16 10:57:56 AM Reply	Who are you, and what have you done with mmoffitt? -- Drew
Post #415,641 by mmoffitt 11/23/16 11:00:15 AM 11/23/16 11:00:15 AM Reply	:0) bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,599 by rcareaga 11/22/16 12:09:10 PM 11/22/16 12:09:10 PM Reply	and how about when she held a gun to my head? I'd never have voted for Clinton in the California primary if she hadn't threatened to burn my house down and kill my dog.
Post #415,600 by mmoffitt 11/22/16 12:17:36 PM 11/22/16 12:17:36 PM Reply	:0) bcnu, Mikem I think religion should be treated with ridicule, hatred and contempt. And I claim that right. Christopher Hitchens.
Post #415,612 by boxley 11/22/16 2:56:05 PM 11/22/16 2:56:05 PM Reply	only one dog? she must have been slipping always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,584 by boxley 11/21/16 4:24:42 PM 11/21/16 4:24:42 PM Reply	another view "She cannot be faulted, criticized, or analyzed for even one more second." cult of clinton http://reason.com/archives/2016/11/20/america-called-bullshit-on-saint-hillary always look out for number one and don't step in number two
Post #415,620 by Ashton 11/22/16 4:02:40 PM 11/22/16 4:02:40 PM Reply	LRPD grades the thread: 'Three cheers for literacy... I feel sick.' :-0

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