Perhaps,

Post #353,715 by beepster 1/28/12 7:10:54 AM Reply	Perhaps, But it is not required here of all retailers. Right now,MIT seems, just airlines . Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #353,733 by crazy 1/28/12 10:54:54 AM Reply	Airlines are special They have this grey zone of being "deregulated". They have a shitload of taxes and fees specific to the industry. They are very confusing for most people. Not you though. A large chunk of your career is spent dealing with them. You are a pretty unique viewpoint on this one, at least as compared to this group. Please let me know if I have your viewpoint correct or if I'm way off base: It seems you agree with GP ("perhaps", that's a luke warm agreement, but at least you are not disagreeing or seeming to look for an argument.) So then it becomes a matter of being annoyed that your (airlines) area of the world is being looked at for further regulation, and this seems unfair to you. If it is the correct thing to do, why don't we do it for ALL situations where there are taxes or fees associated with a price? Did I miss anything?
Post #353,742 by beepster 1/28/12 12:40:11 PM Reply	Why? 1) For being deregulated, there certainly are alot of regulations ;-) 2) Don't know who you mean by GP. 3) Its a fairly simple point I'm making. When buying an airline ticket, from any agent or website, prior to this rule, I knew EXACTLY what I was paying before I paid. Following the "unbundling" of bag fees, I had Southwest telling me every 5 minutes on TV that they didn't charge them, but everyone else did...so I'd have to be pretty stupid not to know about those too. The fact that it did not match the ad in the paper was almost entirely the fault of the government through very large amounts of taxes and fees. This made people (like you, judging from your earlier post, angry...and apparently angry at the airlines. And the trip was a problem, again, mad at the airlines (when likely the biggest pain was TSA security)...and the government takes this misplaced anger and uses it to pass a rule that everyone (but me) apparently loves so that noone will ever be the wiser about how much of that >really expensive airline ticket< goes to the government. But the EXACT same situation happens with all of retail. The advertised price is NOT the final price (except maybe in Delaware)...but I don't see any cry for "full disclosure" there. Nor do I see this rule actually >fixing< anything. So I'm inclined to side with the gentleman from Spirit, who believes this is a way to make the taxes "disappear"...making it much easier for them to go up...and have the target of the blame continue to be misplaced. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #353,746 by drook 1/28/12 2:58:51 PM Reply	Listen closely ... I'll type slowly It was analyzed by one of the majors, who really did NOT want to change their policy...but after months of study, realized that travelers would not pay an incremental increase in fare for the extra value. They were leaving money on the table. Travelers would buy a ticket on their competition because it was $5 less...and then pay their competition $7 for the food. That. Is. The. Problem. Taxes are only one of the many charges that are added on to the advertised price. And I doubt that they're the largest part of the markup when a $29 ticket ends up costing $75. You work in the industry, so you know what all the charges are before you go to pay. Most people don't work in the industry, so we don't even know what to look for. And just to pick on another point ... When talking about taxes you've repeated the well-worn strawman that liberals think money belongs to the government, so we should be grateful for whatever we're allowed to keep. But here you're talking about "money left on the table", as though that was the airline's money and you can't fault them for picking up what's rightfully theirs. -- Drew
Post #353,747 by beepster 1/28/12 3:27:46 PM Reply	Pay attention the rule does NOTHING about the ancillary fees. http://timesfreepres...draw-mixed-views/ Siebold said some airlines already are unbundling their fares, such as showing nonmandatory fees including those for luggage or seat preference. Those types of fees are not included in the new federal rules that took effect this week, but airlines are required to post them on their websites. So, you see, the food example is NOT part of this rule. Just taxes and mandatory fees. (Nearly 100% government imposed) All that is required is that the airlines post those non mandatories on their website. Which they did prior to this rule. The "money left on the table" was not tax money. It was passenger money..those that got their $5 bargain fare and blew it on a cheese tray during the flight. With that type of passenger buying behavior, giving free food made no sense for them. So now, they charge. Guess what. It added tens of millions to the bottom line. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #353,750 by Another Scott 1/28/12 4:06:49 PM Reply	The problem with this discusion may be... the fact that you're used to buying tickets in a corporate setting while most people don't. When I need to fly somewhere, it's usually for personal reasons. I go to Travelocity (or wherever), enter the # of seats I want, the dates, then go searching. I get a list of flights and ticket prices. Prices vary by factors of 2 or 3 or more for no apparent reason, making one very suspicious that one is being ripped off. On Travelocity, it says "total per person" under the fare. If I select the outbound flight, I see in small print "additional baggage fees may apply". The page changes. I select the return flight. The page changes. I decline the invitation to search for a hotel. The page changes. I continue, declining the stupid travel insurance popup. The page changes. I notice the fine print that the fare isn't guaranteed until it is booked. At that point, I get invited to enter my payment information. Down at the bottom I see a small link about taxes and fees. It says things like: "The prices displayed for air fare on our site are inclusive of all taxes, governmental fees, and other mandatory charges. However, remember that you may incur other flight-related charges that are not payable to us and are not included in the quoted price, such as airline baggage fees and other charges for optional airline services." and information about variable charges for changing a reservation. What are those fees and charges? Dunno. They don't tell me in some obvious way. While this is fairly good disclosure, it's not until you are inputting your credit card information that you see the "Adult fare rules" linky with each flight that says things like: "SURCHARGES IF INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2. THERE IS NO FUEL SURCHARGE PER FARE COMPONENT FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 16FEB12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF 10 PERCENT OF THE FARE PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 17FEB12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 01MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 02MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 08MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON FRI/SUN ON 09MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 10MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 11MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 12MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 15MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 16MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 17MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 37.21 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 18MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 19MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 22MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 23MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 24MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 25MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 26MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 29MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 37.21 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 30MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 31MAR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 01APR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 02APR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 05APR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 06APR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF 20 PERCENT OF THE FARE PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 09APR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 12APR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 13APR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 18.60 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 14APR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 27.91 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 15APR12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 10MAY12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 11MAY12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 14MAY12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 17MAY12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 18MAY12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 20MAY12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL SURCHARGE IS ASSESSED ON A FARE COMPONENT BASIS. AND - MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER SURCHARGE OF USD 9.30 PER FARE COMPONENT WILL BE ADDED TO THE APPLICABLE FARE ON 21MAY12 FOR DEPARTURE OF EACH TRIP. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. THIS PEAK TRAVEL [...]" which, if you're like me, you'll find impossible to read. This is not transparent. If you don't like the terms or the additional charges that they do disclose, you have to start over picking a new flight. It's not impossible for the airlines to make it clear to people who are choosing among different options what the cost of the flight is and what additional charges they may have to pay when they're choosing their flights. Demanding such disclosures isn't some "OMG! SEEKRIT TAXES!!!11" plot. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #353,759 by beepster 1/28/12 7:16:39 PM Reply	The continuing problem is that this rule does not change what you are complaining about. You will still go to travelocity, and the fares on the different airlines will still vary by a factor of 2 to 3...now, though, they will have buried the taxes in those numbers. Thats it. That's all this does. It does not change how airlines price. Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
Post #353,762 by Another Scott 1/28/12 8:12:57 PM Reply	No, the problem is customers don't know the price. When I want to fly to West Overshoe, I don't care that the price includes taxes or fees or surcharges or whatever. What I care about is 1) how much money am I going to have to give the airline to get on the airplane with the service I believe I will be getting?, and 2) what is that price in relation to the competition? Am I being ripped off because I don't know what the actual final price is? How much money is coming out of my bank account if I pick this ticket, and how does it compare? It's that simple. And yet airlines engage in deceptive practices - imagine that. http://www.dot.gov/a...2012/dot1612.html [...] For a period of time in the fall of last year, Finnair displayed three fare advertisements on its website that made no mention of additional taxes and fees that applied to these fares. Instead, once consumers clicked on the advertisements, they were taken to a page on the carrierÂs website where taxes and fees were displayed in the fine print at the bottom of the page. In one of the three advertisements, consumers could not see the fine print unless they happened to scroll to the bottom of the page. FinnairÂs website violated DOT rules requiring any advertising that includes a price for air transportation to state the full price to be paid by the consumer, including all carrier-imposed surcharges. Until Jan. 26, 2012, government-imposed taxes and fees assessed on a per-passenger basis, such as passenger facility charges, could be stated separately from the advertised fare but had to be clearly disclosed in the advertisement so that passengers could easily determine the full price to be paid. Internet fare listings were permitted to disclose these separate taxes and fees through a prominent link next to the fare stating that government taxes and fees were extra, and the link had to take the viewer directly to information where the type and amount of taxes and fees were displayed. Under DOTÂs recently adopted consumer rule that enhances protections for air travelers, carriers and ticket agents have been required to include all government taxes and fees in every advertised fare since Jan. 26. DOTÂs airline price advertising rules apply to both U.S. and foreign carriers as well as ticket agents. Yeah, transparent pricing information that enables price comparison is the 4th Horseman coming to take away our freedoms, or something, if you accept Spirit's line. Yes, there will still be additional fees above the base fare price. The DOT's rule isn't as good as it should be, but it's a heck of a lot better than what was there before. FWIW. I think I'm done. Cheers, Scott.
Post #353,753 by static 1/28/12 5:18:02 PM Reply	It's a broken solution to a broken problem. I suspect airlines are much more willing than most others to game the pricing system. In Au, we had a law change a number of years ago that re-allowed credit card surcharges at the till, instead of absorbing them. Many retailers promptly added them for Amex (~3%), but far fewer added them for Visa and Mastercard (~1%). It tends to be the ones operating visibly smaller margins. Airlines had a field day. Their credit card surcharge starts at 10% for most cards (they have deals with a specific provider's card for 0% on that, which is how they get away with). The lawmakers are trying to figure out a solid legal way to get them to stop doing that, especially as the number of complaints is steadily rising. They're beginning to consider repealing the surcharge law. I originally mentioned the retail experience in the US because that represents a mindset: "add up the items, add the taxes" which I can see as part of the problem. Certainly the case of airlines wanting to "unbundle" the taxes strongly suggests this. It's a very American mindset to want to "stick it to the man" by trumpeting loudly to the customers who much the taxes actually are. Which becomes self-perpetuating. There is no easy solution. Long term, moving away from adding taxes to the total at the end and listing them on the taxed items instead (that's how Australia's GST works), is the most consumer-friendly solution. But it will require a mindset shift for much of the US. Wade. Just Add Story http://justaddstory.wordpress.com/

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