Cats are much smarter than many people credit them for.

Post #31,936 by inthane-chan 3/12/02 8:56:01 PM Reply	Cats are much smarter than many people credit them for. Apparently, they are at least as "intelligent" and possibly moreso than dogs, by our scale of things. Can't give you any hard links right now, but I'd be willing to point out the simple fact that they are much less likely to take orders from us (you can train a cat, it's just a lot harder to do it) than dogs are as a very solid piece of proof to their superior intelligence. :) Don't underestimate animals - just because we have brains, and can communicate with each other doesn't mean that the so-called "lesser" species don't and can't. While it is an extremely bandwidth-limited medium, between his body language, his meows, his occasional chirps, and the two hisses he's given since we've gotten him, Pussat (our kitty) is quite effective at communicating with us. Although I can't assign specific words to his noises and movements, I know what he wants from looking at him - which in some ways makes me think about the method of communication we had before language, that it must have worked in some similar way. (Yeah, I do have some respect for dogs - I just have a fundamental lack of respect built in of anything that will take orders from a human being without any regards of the motivating reason for that order. Yes, that includes other human beings.) "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #31,973 by static 3/13/02 5:05:18 AM Reply	I saw something possibly contrary to that some months back. And it was fairly modern research that said that cats are about as mentally developed as an 18mo old human, but dogs are as mentally developed as a 3yro human. Seems round the wrong way? Well, cats are more independant than dogs. They tend to adopt a place; dogs tend to associate with people. Then too, a feline social structure is different from a canine social one. We think a cat is smarter because they are harder to train. But having lived with a succession of cats over the years, I've seen that the more attached to a person a cat is, the more likely the animal can be trained. I've met some dumb cats in my time, and I've also known some smart dogs, too. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #31,987 by inthane-chan 3/13/02 9:39:59 AM Reply	Agreed. I'd be quite willing to say that there is significant overlap in their "intelligence" (as we define it) levels. I, too, have met some terminally brain-damaged cats. For example, my mom had one that would chase it's own tail for about thirty seconds, then straighten out suddenly, run straight at a chair, and instead of jumping onto the chair, run headfirst into the chair, knocking itself silly. "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #31,989 by CRConrad 3/13/02 9:45:32 AM Reply	Maybe it did it on purpose; like getting drunk?
Post #32,021 by ben_tilly 3/13/02 12:49:05 PM Reply	Intelligence is not so easily characterized Skills are not easily characterized by age. Cats have the distinction of being the only domestic animal which is not a herd animal in nature. As a result their understanding of social structures is non-existent. Dogs emphatically do understand social structures and manipulating their owner's feelings. In this respect, dogs are infinitely more intelligent than cats. This is also why dogs are more trainable. However cats are competent, independent animals. They are quite inquisitive and capable of understanding the parts of their environment that make sense to them. However our social needs don't make sense to them. Incidentally this reminds me of a famous navigation test involving dogs and squirrels. Dogs are in most respects more intelligent than squirrels. But in this test they put down 2 posts, and a bowl of food. The rope was tied to one post, and went around the second, and was tied around the animal. The rope wouldn't reach the food in that configuration. Dogs couldn't figure it out. They would try to reach the food until they got bored (or tired). Then they would ignore it. Then they would notice it again, and repeat. Sometimes, by accident, they solved the puzzle but couldn't reproduce. No squirrel tested had a problem figuring out that they had to scamper back around the second post to be able to reach. The difference is that dogs couldn't conceptualize the situation at all, while for a squirrel this kind of "can't get there from here" logic is identical to one they face navigating trees all of the time. I don't remember whether they tested cats. If they did, I rather suspect the cats spent their time trying to get the annoying rope off of their necks... Cheers, Ben "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #32,029 by Another Scott 3/13/02 1:12:50 PM Reply	My dog would pass that test. I've got a 50 pound border collie/german shepard mix. She gets walked on a retractable 20' leash. She's very, very good about going the right way if a pole or tree gets in the way. She learned how to walk around things very quickly - the first time she was walked with it. Now she sometimes does get tangled up in bushes when she's on a teather, but in that case she's walking around shrubs and lots of stuff and it's not a simple single barrier. [My sister-in-law has a small husky-mix. She's beautiful and very friendly but not too bright. She often gets tied up with her leash...] She will do almost anything for a snack - she always thinks she's starving. :-) I'm confident she'd pass the test with flying colors. Every few months we weigh her on a digital bathroom scale. I carry it into the kitchen and she immediately gets interested. She clearly remembers it and anxiously seats herself on it because she knows she'll get a treat afterward. So, it depends on the dog. :-) Cheers, Scott.
Post #32,032 by drewk 3/13/02 1:24:05 PM Reply	I had those same two dogs Used to have a Basset Hound that could not figure out how to come back and go around the other side of the tree. I could pull as hard as i wanted, and he would just strain harder against the leash to try to come towards me. The Golden Retriever/Chow mix I have now got the concept withing the first week. The Basset BTW was the flat-out dumbest animal I've ever met. I can't be a Democrat because I like to spend the money I make. I can't be a Republican because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and whores.
Post #32,031 by inthane-chan 3/13/02 1:18:59 PM Reply	My cat's reaction... ...would be to sit and meow until somebody moved the food dish. :) "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #32,126 by static 3/14/02 6:11:32 AM Reply	And you made my point more eloquently than I did! :-) I quite agree: comparing intelligence across species is not usually directly possible. Cats simply think differently to dogs. ObCat anecdote: I live with an aging tabby who is usually fairly cluey. She gets put under the house at night and our house has a configuration where the other side of some internal walls is under the house. There is also a cat-flap on the side allowing cat-access from outside to under. When Dad first cut the hole allowing access from inside to under, it took this cat less than 10 minutes to figure out the two flaps led to the same place! I'm sure our other cat still re-discovers this every other day or so... Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #31,995 by drewk 3/13/02 10:16:08 AM Reply	On whether animals are smart Heard a good analogy a while ago. Ants have some level of communication. Our speech is so much more advanced than what they use that they can't even perceive it. From their perspective, are we intelligent? Now suppose there were some other species/alien race/supernatural being that is as far above us as we are above ants. Could we even perceive their communication? How would we know if there already is such a species on this planet? I can't be a Democrat because I like to spend the money I make. I can't be a Republican because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and whores.

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