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New No homeopathic remedy has ever passed a double-blind test.
In short, no-one's ever scientifically demonstrated that it does anything at all.

The mechanism itself is irrelevant until it can be demonstrated that a mechanism exists.

Box's example is pure placebo, and I'd bet a bottle of Black Sheep Bitter on it.


Peter
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Expand Edited by pwhysall July 22, 2007, 05:05:46 PM EDT
New Not difficult to find articles that differ with you on that.
Here's the first one that came up: [link|http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/13/19/19.html|Homeopathic Research Update]. Lots of references at the bottom.

I am also aware there are double blind tests of homeopathic remedies by allopathic researchers that came up statistically invalid. I imagine they tend to pick some of the more marginal claims to test, consciously or subconsciously, since that would be the natural tendency to assure you get the results you expect.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=28
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New although when it comes to picking doctors
graduate from only certain american medical schools with the exception being unam mexico city if an internal specialty was aquired. Residency must be at certain recognisable US hospitals. Must be a woman with small hands.
thanx,
bill
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Re: No homeopathic remedy has ever passed a double-blind tes
Ah, another impromptu flight on the Fanciful Musings on Immortality dirigible :-0

Andrew has expressed the dilemma with his characteristic clarity, pretty much freed of Popular opinions and their circular 'proofs' - ever in search of that elusive Certainty thing. Can add only a couple anecdotal ingredients to the consomm\ufffd:
(Is AMA allopathy <VS> All Other approaches ..a dish which should be eaten cold, too?)

Note that Samuel Hahnemann (also Moshe Feldenkrais / his 'method' for dealing with body, skeletal problems) -- were both physicists. They really did appreciate the usual numbers and how to lie/not-lie with stats -- as they also witnessed the oft absurd pronouncements (and results) of the 'advice' of the later-on, much more numerous allopathic religious=exclusive practitioners. Guess what: they did Experiments! to test their theories. Imagine that. Hahnemann's lore is largely an encyclop\ufffddic compilation of very-many Boolean choices: amidst numerous "observable symptoms" and even personal habits of the patient. He could not 'force it simpler'. Apparently.

As Andrew also points towards - a history of US medicine will reveal that the formation of the 'AMA' was largely about [std Machiavelian approach; offerings to Moloch, pre-spreadsheet] -- doing all things possible, however scurrilous -call 'em All 'quacks'- to achieve monopoly.

Currently, AMA retains that Windows-status, but we are seeing that mind-lock losing ground here, not only because of the absurd costs for the most trivial of 'procedures'. Many more %MDs are eschewing membership in their State AMA orgs -- retaining only the necessaries as permit them to practice at all, obtain painkillers, etc.

I too do physics, remain Skeptical of most things -- the more earnest an emotional Pitch-for: the less I accord Brownie points for trying. I've tried some homeo; experienced a negative-proof! too. That is, later on, when I indulged in a substance known to ~neutralize that remedy: almost instantly 'felt' unfamiliar/inexpressible 'things going on' within -- not extreme but Evident. (There was no such 'clue' upon imbibing the original Remedy.)

Anecdotal too:
A pair of cats with diagnosed FIV, given "months.." to survive by your Standard-allopathic Vet. Recommended treatment: extinguish and flush. (We do a lot of that here, when the cute-puppy needs replacement with a new one to keep little Kevin amused for a few weeks.)

A couple so-called 'Remedies' employed and a diet of particularly junk-free food, over the past ~12 years ... suggested to the also traditionally-Skeptical 'kitty staff' person: hmmmm - anything Tuit?
'Course one of this pair, whom I've nicked Scaredy Cat is weird on several levels. But she had been abused as a kitten.
(Imagine.. "abusing a kitten", eh. What must that reveal.)

And no, Peter - this constitutes neither proof nor Proof - nor can it sustain Disproof (in its various stages of personal-Belief.) It [the story] just IS, unless you want to consider my drain bramaged: I've witnessed most of this history. I say..

Guess the Euros are even dopier than the denizens of Bushland, judging by the large presence of alt. approches to health maintenance on the Continent - including Homeo. (But then, whoever believes that popularity connotes efficacy - well..)

Oh, BTW, deranged-one:
DCs, Osteopaths are Not synonyms for 'homeopathic tendencies' -- merely are these another 'Alternative' approach to maintaining health. That is an important distinction IMO: The AMA is dedicated to treating symptoms of what they call 'diseases' - small potatoes (time OR money) is spent on the Idea of "maintaining robust Health".

Note finally that, claimed 'cure rates' for various maladies: are oft tied to a "5 year survival" metric, with little clarification of the kind of liff experience, as the dying is somewhat put-off. (Personally I'd prefer death to some of these as produce a medical-Guantanamo-liff - thankyouverymuch.)

Nothing IS simple about any of this stuff. Engage in a battle of (imagined) Opposites - at your own peril. I prefer to observe, acknowledge the [still] massive ignorance of the species on most aspects of body survival: and place my bets, right-->at any time of need. I can't think of a single person to whom I could mindlessly delegate such a decision. YMMV.


Ashton
Medicine chest: aspirin. Band-Aids\ufffd. Ethyl-, Iso- alcohol. Tinct. Iodine. Floss.
And occasional samples of those Fun sought-after pills, (leftovers not wasted by someone - on mere pain suppression.) Drugstores would starve if ...

New oooh, medicine chest comparisons
rubbing alchohol
hydrogen peroxide
iodine
kelocort (artificial skin)
badaids, bandages, compression bandages,surgical tape, assorted ace bandages, different exoskeletal supports
witch hazel
magnesium oxide
tiger balm
aspirin ibuprofin acetiphinomen
assorted antibacterial ointments
camphor
menthol
eucolyptus oil
hemostats, assorted needles and thread
various prescription items

even tho I live on the road system with lots of drugstores close by I still have the old habits of being self contained
thanx,
bill
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 51 years. meep

reach me at [link|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net|mailto:bill.oxley@cox.net]
New Minimal
  • Antibiotic ointment - generic
  • Three tubes Airborne tablets (may work, may not - but always worth a try)
  • 1-ounce amber glass stoppered bottle Uranium & Sodium Acetate (empty)
  • Toothpaste
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
New W.T.F. ?
was 'Uranium & Sodium Acetate' all about? re going into anyone's body...
That this is also a mixture, thus unlikely as a chem. reagent == ???
I'm all Ferenghi.

(And funny-you-should etc.)
I have still, a CP Merck? bottle of Uranium Acetate, plus some other U- compounds and miscl. alkaloids, oddities, like a Ra-containing phosphorescent vial -- but these are all in the garage! and suitably contained/marked.

(There's even a note inside, lest some future salvager imagine mindless disposal. Guess I'll soon have to consider the likely eptness of current crop, pre-need: redo in Chinese as well as Spanish?)

New Re: W.T.F. ?
The Uranium Acetate bottle is there purely for the benefit of persons who snoop in other people's medicine cabinets. It's so old the label says "1 ounce" rather than being in grams.

I don't keep my little bottle of Pure Arsenic Crystals in there because it's actually full of Pure Arsenic Crystals.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
     get headaches? - (boxley) - (33)
         Here's one - - (Ashton) - (5)
             well shoving the blood flow to new areas usually works - (boxley) - (2)
                 ^RTFM^ -NT - (Ashton) - (1)
                     duh oh! -NT - (boxley)
             Another one: - (admin)
             Wife's comment: - (admin)
         Their commercials give me a headache! -NT - (a6l6e6x)
         So it's water, right? -NT - (pwhysall) - (25)
             ? no. 99.9%wax n other stuff -NT - (boxley) - (24)
                 99.9999% wax (and other meaningless stuff) - (crazy) - (23)
                     works in the case of someone alergic to most - (boxley) - (22)
                         Actually, no - (crazy) - (21)
                             Im glad the PC editors on wikipedia have nailed Homeopathy - (boxley) - (3)
                                 sigh (for both anti-WP responses) - (crazy) - (1)
                                     As a jumping off point for non-controversial subjects . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                                 Ah, otheopaths vs allopaths - (crazy)
                             Citing Wikipedia on anything the least bit controversial . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (16)
                                 Impossible to know? - (crazy) - (15)
                                     Ah! an unbiased source :) - (Andrew Grygus) - (14)
                                         I don't ask you to accept the source - (crazy) - (4)
                                             oes this work in acceptable form? - (boxley) - (2)
                                                 The answer is no. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                                                     Echinacea found effective after all . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                                             "Where is that quote from?" you ask . . . - (Andrew Grygus)
                                         No homeopathic remedy has ever passed a double-blind test. - (pwhysall) - (8)
                                             Not difficult to find articles that differ with you on that. - (Andrew Grygus)
                                             http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=28 -NT - (boxley)
                                             although when it comes to picking doctors - (boxley)
                                             Re: No homeopathic remedy has ever passed a double-blind tes - (Ashton) - (4)
                                                 oooh, medicine chest comparisons - (boxley) - (3)
                                                     Minimal - (Andrew Grygus) - (2)
                                                         W.T.F. ? - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                             Re: W.T.F. ? - (Andrew Grygus)

The haddock hits me with a sucker punch. I catch him with a left hook. He eels over. It was a fluke, but there he was, lying on the deck... flat as a mackerel. Kelpless.
117 ms